Good luck for your project. It is really relieving that I am not the only person that is planning a very similar gaming rig in the same time frame.

After the exellent advice I got here I decided to for a socket 754 system with Athlon 64 New Castle based core and either a GF 4 4200 or 4600.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 06:44:

Good luck for your project. It is really relieving that I am not the only person that is planning a very similar gaming rig in the same time frame.

After the exellent advice I got here I decided to for a socket 754 system with Athlon 64 New Castle based core and either a GF 4 4200 or 4600.

Thanks. Good look for your upcoming rig as well.

@all Another question about the potential second video card in my System, the Vodoo 2.

Which price of a vodoo would you consider as decent?

Prices are normally in the 100s of Euro Range.

This card on on the other hand

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-PCI … 0N-new-neu.html

would be way cheaper?

Would this offer be a good option in case it will ever comes back? The V2 would be just an add-one for my system. I won't bother for now waiting for a v2. I will finish my system in the next month with the other components. But I will keep my eyes open just for fun for a V2. Maybe I am lucky with a bargain eventually.

This offer from electromyne could be the "bargain" in case it will ever come back.

Never heard about Gainward though? is this a decent brand for V2 cards or video cards in general?

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 08:55:

Never heard about Gainward though? is this a decent brand for V2 cards or video cards in general?

It was a very good graphics card brand back in the day.

In general, if you're not familiar with a certain manufacturer, try searching for old reviews of their products. For example, Anandtech still hosts all of their hardware reviews from the late 90s and the early 2000s. These can be very insightful.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-05-17, 09:44:

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 08:55:

Never heard about Gainward though? is this a decent brand for V2 cards or video cards in general?

It was a very good graphics card brand back in the day.

In general, if you're not familiar with a certain manufacturer, try searching for old reviews of their products. For example, Anandtech still hosts all of their hardware reviews from the late 90s and the early 2000s. These can be very insightful.

Thanks for the info and the advice. Just checked Anadtech and the site is great. So many old reviews to go through. Checking out old reviews to find info about a brand I am not familiar with crossed my mind as well btw. Somehow at least. I just limited my research to the old German pc game mags I was reading back then and there was not much info available about the Gainward stuff. That's why I decided to ask her. Checking out English sources as well slipped my mind to honest

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 08:55:

@all Another question about the potential second video card in my System, the Vodoo 2. […]
Show full quote

@all Another question about the potential second video card in my System, the Vodoo 2.

Which price of a vodoo would you consider as decent?

Prices are normally in the 100s of Euro Range.

This card on on the other hand

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-PCI … 0N-new-neu.html

would be way cheaper?

Yes it would but it‘s sold, probably many years ago. I know that site, they have alot of cheap stuff but that’s all „ausverkauft“ (sold out)
For reference, I sold a pentium II 400 with an intel 440bx board with onboard tnt agp and sb128 and a diamond monster voodoo2 12mb for 150 euros, like 2 months ago. That’s a very good deal if you look a the prices people ask for a single V2 card.
And if you find a cheap one it’s usually broken: I learned that the hard way. My advice: go for a voodoo 3 (if you really want a 3dfx card).

Kouwes wrote on 2023-05-17, 10:21:

Yes it would but it‘s sold, probably many years ago. I know that site, they have alot of cheap stuff but that’s all „ausverkauft […]
Show full quote

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 08:55:

@all Another question about the potential second video card in my System, the Vodoo 2. […]
Show full quote

@all Another question about the potential second video card in my System, the Vodoo 2.

Which price of a vodoo would you consider as decent?

Prices are normally in the 100s of Euro Range.

This card on on the other hand

https://www.electromyne.de/Graphics-Cards-PCI … 0N-new-neu.html

would be way cheaper?

Yes it would but it‘s sold, probably many years ago. I know that site, they have alot of cheap stuff but that’s all „ausverkauft“ (sold out)
For reference, I sold a pentium II 400 with an intel 440bx board with onboard tnt agp and sb128 and a diamond monster voodoo2 12mb for 150 euros, like 2 months ago. That’s a very good deal if you look a the prices people ask for a single V2 card.
And if you find a cheap one it’s usually broken: I learned that the hard way. My advice: go for a Voodoo 3 (if you want a 3dfx card).

Thanks for the info. Did not know that the offer was sold many years ago. I thought it happened recently and there might be a chance that it would come back. If that's the case I will stick to your advice and keep looking for Vodoo 3 card then.

I would not call a 3dfx card a necessity but it is still a card nice to have in case I get lucky and find one at a good price.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 06:44:

Good luck for your project. It is really relieving that I am not the only person that is planning a very similar gaming rig in the same time frame.

After the exellent advice I got here I decided to for a socket 754 system with Athlon 64 New Castle based core and either a GF 4 4200 or 4600.

Win98 compatibility? Only reason I ask is because of the GF4 choice. It's a 2004 era system running a 2002 era video card.

If you're looking for that, then you really want to make sure your board has drivers available before you pick it up. Not all A64 boards work with 98 and fewer even properly.

In my opinion, the least problematic and fast DOS/Win98 system should be based on Pentium 4, Intel chipset motherboard, Sound Blaster Live or Forte Media FM801 music card and ATI Radeon 9250/9550/9600 graphics card. This configuration gives very good performance and high compatibility.

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 11:33:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 06:44:

Good luck for your project. It is really relieving that I am not the only person that is planning a very similar gaming rig in the same time frame.

After the exellent advice I got here I decided to for a socket 754 system with Athlon 64 New Castle based core and either a GF 4 4200 or 4600.

Win98 compatibility? Only reason I ask is because of the GF4 choice. It's a 2004 era system running a 2002 era video card.

If you're looking for that, then you really want to make sure your board has drivers available before you pick it up. Not all A64 boards work with 98 and fewer even properly.

Yes it is going to be a windows 98 system. Thanks for the warning about the drivers. I am aware that the system is overkill for my prefered time frame but specs like that were recommended to me here in the forum and it makes sense go over the top with the specs to enjoy the old games in the best possible quality.

Good to know that I have to be careful with the driver to avoid compatibility issues.

Maryoo wrote on 2023-05-17, 11:42:

In my opinion, the least problematic and fast DOS/Win98 system should be based on Pentium 4, Intel chipset motherboard, Sound Blaster Live or Forte Media FM801 music card and ATI Radeon 9250/9550/9600 graphics card. This configuration gives very good performance and high compatibility.

A big thanks for your recommendation as well. The Radeon 9000 family has good reputation as well and would be worth considering for sure . Unfortunately the 'Radeons have issues with Table fog and 8 bit pallated textures. According pictures in the vogons thread about topic the games look a bit weird without that features.

If these features were not an issue the Ati Radeon 9000 series would be really good alternative to the gf 3 or gf 4 cards.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 12:11:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 11:33:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 06:44:

Good luck for your project. It is really relieving that I am not the only person that is planning a very similar gaming rig in the same time frame.

After the exellent advice I got here I decided to for a socket 754 system with Athlon 64 New Castle based core and either a GF 4 4200 or 4600.

Win98 compatibility? Only reason I ask is because of the GF4 choice. It's a 2004 era system running a 2002 era video card.

If you're looking for that, then you really want to make sure your board has drivers available before you pick it up. Not all A64 boards work with 98 and fewer even properly.

Yes it is going to be a windows 98 system. Thanks for the warning about the drivers. I am aware that the system is overkill for my prefered time frame but specs like that were recommended to me here in the forum and it makes sense go over the top with the specs to enjoy the old games in the best possible quality.

Good to know that I have to be careful with the driver to avoid compatibility issues.

Nothing wrong with overkill 😀 I do the same with my P4 rig. Best of luck on your search!

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 13:42:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 12:11:

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 11:33:

Win98 compatibility? Only reason I ask is because of the GF4 choice. It's a 2004 era system running a 2002 era video card.

If you're looking for that, then you really want to make sure your board has drivers available before you pick it up. Not all A64 boards work with 98 and fewer even properly.

Yes it is going to be a windows 98 system. Thanks for the warning about the drivers. I am aware that the system is overkill for my prefered time frame but specs like that were recommended to me here in the forum and it makes sense go over the top with the specs to enjoy the old games in the best possible quality.

Good to know that I have to be careful with the driver to avoid compatibility issues.

Nothing wrong with overkill 😀 I do the same with my P4 rig. Best of luck on your search!

Thanks. I think it is better to have more power than needed than the other way around. My search is almost over lucky. I will either get socket 754 system with Athlon 64 new castle based cpu or a socket 478 System with the New Castle P4 because this P4 can be obtained really cheap.

I would be happy with any of these configurations. I will just pick the one where I can get the components at the cheapest price. For my first build I want to keep stuff as simple as possible.

You said you are a P4 user yourself? Do you think the Northwood P4 with 2.0 GHZ would be a decent Cpu?

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 14:38:

Thanks. I think it is better to have more power than needed than the other way around. My search is almost over lucky. I wil […]
Show full quote

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 13:42:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 12:11:

Yes it is going to be a windows 98 system. Thanks for the warning about the drivers. I am aware that the system is overkill for my prefered time frame but specs like that were recommended to me here in the forum and it makes sense go over the top with the specs to enjoy the old games in the best possible quality.

Good to know that I have to be careful with the driver to avoid compatibility issues.

Nothing wrong with overkill 😀 I do the same with my P4 rig. Best of luck on your search!

Thanks. I think it is better to have more power than needed than the other way around. My search is almost over lucky. I will either get socket 754 system with Athlon 64 new castle based cpu or a socket 478 System with the New Castle P4 because this P4 can be obtained really cheap.

I would be happy with any of these configurations. I will just pick the one where I can get the components at the cheapest price. For my first build I want to keep stuff as simple as possible.

You said you are a P4 user yourself? Do you think the Northwood P4 with 2.0 GHZ would be a decent Cpu?

For the majority of win98's era, it's plenty. Games on the tail end will show a real difference between a 2.0 ghz and higher chips like the 3.0 or A64s but for the majority that's designed to run on Pentium 2s and the like, it's fast. There are a few speed sensitive games that have issues past 2.0ghz to keep mindful of. Many of them are fixable though.

If you do decide to go the S478 route, you could always try the cheapest 1.8-2.4 chip you can find (I spent literally $4 CAD total on my 2.0, it was the first one I picked up to get the rig working initially till I found the 3.0 at a decent price) and if it doesn't do what you want - upgrade it. Bonus is that if you run into some of those before mentioned speed sensitive games that you really want to play and it just doesn't work on your faster chip, you can just drop in the slower one and have at it.

With my rig, I've set the 3.0c and x850 back into my P4 rig to play some XP stuff. Still works real nicely with 98 (although needing the rloew ram patch to make it work past 512mb).

That said, if you really do want A64 - stick with that. Especially if you're interested in XP era stuff as well as they run faster and considerably cooler.

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 16:21:

For the majority of win98's era, it's plenty. Games on the tail end will show a real difference between a 2.0 ghz and higher chi […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 14:38:

Thanks. I think it is better to have more power than needed than the other way around. My search is almost over lucky. I wil […]
Show full quote

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 13:42:

Nothing wrong with overkill 😀 I do the same with my P4 rig. Best of luck on your search!

Thanks. I think it is better to have more power than needed than the other way around. My search is almost over lucky. I will either get socket 754 system with Athlon 64 new castle based cpu or a socket 478 System with the New Castle P4 because this P4 can be obtained really cheap.

I would be happy with any of these configurations. I will just pick the one where I can get the components at the cheapest price. For my first build I want to keep stuff as simple as possible.

You said you are a P4 user yourself? Do you think the Northwood P4 with 2.0 GHZ would be a decent Cpu?

For the majority of win98's era, it's plenty. Games on the tail end will show a real difference between a 2.0 ghz and higher chips like the 3.0 or A64s but for the majority that's designed to run on Pentium 2s and the like, it's fast. There are a few speed sensitive games that have issues past 2.0ghz to keep mindful of. Many of them are fixable though.

If you do decide to go the S478 route, you could always try the cheapest 1.8-2.4 chip you can find (I spent literally $4 CAD total on my 2.0, it was the first one I picked up to get the rig working initially till I found the 3.0 at a decent price) and if it doesn't do what you want - upgrade it. The bonus is that if you run into some of those before-mentioned speed-sensitive games that you really want to play and it just doesn't work on your faster chip, you can just drop in the slower one and have at it.

With my rig, I've set the 3.0c and x850 back into my P4 rig to play some XP stuff. Still works real nicely with 98 (although needing the new ram patch to make it work past 512 MB).

That said, if you do want A64 - stick with that. Especially if you're interested in XP-era stuff as well as they run faster and considerably cooler.

Thanks for the further info.

It depends mainly on the price of the CPU and the motherboard if I go with the A64 or the P4. I find both solutions equally interesting. Running faster and running cooler is a big pro for A64 though. I am not interested in Xp yet. For my first building project, I am mainly interested in a Windows 98 system. But making one day maybe another pure Xp System is possible. I like the XP era too. Many interesting things happened in that time frame. Games and Hardwarewise.

One fringe benefit of building an XP machine is it's marginally easier to install XP Era games you've bought on GOG. As in, the GOG installers for say, Empire Earth, actually run on XP and installs a game that mostly works. Sometimes you have to hunt down their DirectX wrapper and delete it. Because you don't need to wrap DX8 towards DX12 when you have actual DX8 hardware.

You can still run most Win98 era games from GOG on a Win98 machine. But the installers won't run, so you need to copy the files over manually.

Namrok wrote on 2023-05-17, 18:58:

One fringe benefit of building an XP machine is it's marginally easier to install XP Era games you've bought on GOG. As in, the GOG installers for say, Empire Earth, actually run on XP and installs a game that mostly works. Sometimes you have to hunt down their DirectX wrapper and delete it. Because you don't need to wrap DX8 towards DX12 when you have actual DX8 hardware.

You can still run most Win98-era games from GOG on a Win98 machine. But the installers won't run, so you need to copy the files over manually.

That's good to know. My good collection of old games is not that big I have lots of boxed games too and as a collector of games, I will always go for the boxed copy over digital if I can find and afford the games but still very reassuring to know that I ca bring some of the gog games on my upcoming retro system as well even if I have to copy the files over manually for windows 98.

your win xp system talk made me curious. I think I have mentioned my old xp pc already that is at my grand parents house that I might use in the future for a second xp build. in the future. I am there at the moment until Friday. As expected it is still working because my grandparents did not use it that often.

Would a pc with these specs

Intel Pentium D 930 3.GHZ

Asus P5WD2 Socket 775

Radeon Xt 1800 512 Mb graphics card
HP 512 MB DDR SDRAM

already a solid late xp gaming machine

or should I change some parts in the future when I am going start with the xp project to get most out of the core parts I have here?

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 19:36:

or should I change some parts in the future when I am going start with the xp project to get most out of the core parts I have here?

With WinXP, you can safely go with the most powerful hardware that's officially supported. In terms of graphics, games generally work fine all the way up to Nvidia 960, with a few rare exceptions like the first Splinter Cell. For the CPU, you can go as far as Ivy Bridge i5 or i7 and still have official WinXP drivers on certain motherboards. Some games don't like more than 2 cores, but that's very easy to fix, by either setting affinity in Task Manager or by using a third-party utility.

Note that some late era WinXP games like The Witcher, Neverwinter Nights 2 and F.E.A.R. can be quite demanding on both the CPU and the GPU, if cranked up to 1080p or higher.

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 19:36:

your win xp system talk made me curious. I think I have mentioned my old xp pc already that is at my grand parents house that I […]
Show full quote

your win xp system talk made me curious. I think I have mentioned my old xp pc already that is at my grand parents house that I might use in the future for a second xp build. in the future. I am there at the moment until Friday. As expected it is still working because my grandparents did not use it that often.

Would a pc with these specs

Intel Pentium D 930 3.GHZ

Asus P5WD2 Socket 775

Radeon Xt 1800 512 Mb graphics card
HP 512 MB DDR SDRAM

already a solid late xp gaming machine

or should I change some parts in the future when I am going start with the xp project to get most out of the core parts I have here?

Fairly capable mid-XP machine for sure, not really a 'late' one. Sadly that board doesn't seem to take core 2s but I'd probably bump the ram to 1GB or more if you wanted to actually use it.

gen_angry wrote on 2023-05-17, 22:02:

theiceman085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 19:36:

your win xp system talk made me curious. I think I have mentioned my old xp pc already that is at my grand parents house that I […]
Show full quote

your win xp system talk made me curious. I think I have mentioned my old xp pc already that is at my grand parents house that I might use in the future for a second xp build. in the future. I am there at the moment until Friday. As expected it is still working because my grandparents did not use it that often.

Would a pc with these specs

Intel Pentium D 930 3.GHZ

Asus P5WD2 Socket 775

Radeon Xt 1800 512 Mb graphics card
HP 512 MB DDR SDRAM

already a solid late xp gaming machine

or should I change some parts in the future when I am going start with the xp project to get most out of the core parts I have here?

Fairly capable mid-XP machine for sure, not really a 'late' one. Sadly that board doesn't seem to take core 2s but I'd probably bump the ram to 1GB or more if you wanted to actually use it.

Thanks for the info. Bumping up the Ram sounds like a good idea. That's one thing I am going to do for sure. An Upgrade for the CPU with Core 2 also sounds great but it really seems that's not possible.

@Joseph_Joestar Thanks for the info as well.