can you post some screenshots?

the brighter one is the nglide. the darker one is the direct3d.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 06:51:

Is this a modern problem or did Unreal 1 always ran better on glide than on opengl?

Unreal always looked better in Glide mode than using the stock Direct3D and especially OpenGL renderers. IIRC, OpenGL wasn't even fully supported and you had to enable it manually.

If you want to play Unreal on a modern system with the correct visuals, I suggest using the OldUnreal fan made patch.

Ok, I see. Thanks for the info and the advice. I might try the patch out. In general, it is not necessary though. Never had the intention to play it seriously on my modern-day rig. Want to experience it for real when my rig is finished. Still good to know that there are ways to play the game with the correct visuals on a current day pc.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 10:41:

Want to experience it for real when my rig is finished. Still good to know that there are ways to play the game with the correct visuals on a current day pc.

Just to clarify, Unreal won't look correct even on a retro rig, if the stock Direct3D or OpenGL renderers are used. That's just how the game was coded. The differences aren't huge mind you, but you will occasionally notice missing effects if you know how it's supposed to look. The game was pretty much made for Voodoo cards and Glide.

That said, I think it might be possible to use an older version of the fan made UTGLR or D3D renderer on some retro systems, but I haven't tried that personally.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-05-17, 10:51:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 10:41:

Want to experience it for real when my rig is finished. Still good to know that there are ways to play the game with the correct visuals on a current day pc.

Just to clarify, Unreal won't look correct even on a retro rig, if the stock Direct3D or OpenGL renderers are used. That's just how the game was coded. The differences aren't huge mind you, but you will occasionally notice missing effects if you know how it's supposed to look. The game was pretty much made for Voodoo cards and Glide.

That said, I think it might be possible to use an older version of the fan made UTGLR or D3D renderer on some retro systems, but I haven't tried that personally.

Ok i see. Now I get it. So the only way to play Unreal 1 really properly would be on vodoo 2 or vodoo 3 system eh?? The good news is that I never have experienced Unreal 1 in the glide mode in real way. I was just playing around a bit with NGlide and back then when Unreal was new I just could run the game with software mode.

So I might not even notice the missing effects because I would never know what to look for exactly. So that missing effects would not be the biggest drawback.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 12:15:

Ok i see. Now I get it. So the only way to play Unreal 1 really properly would be on vodoo 2 or vodoo 3 system eh?? The good news is that I never have experienced Unreal 1 in the glide mode in real way.

I think the S3 Metal and PowerVR renderers might also display all the effects in Unreal, but I'm not 100% sure on that. Of course, you need specific cards for those, which are not very common. Honestly, it's just more convenient to use a modern fan-made renderer like UTGLR.

That said, while the vast majority of Win9x games run fine under Direct3D or OpenGL, there are a few which look best when using Glide. Additionally, certain games exclusively support the Glide API for 3D acceleration, and will only run in software mode on non-Voodoo cards.

Those are some of the reasons why Voodoo cards are so prized in the retro community, which sadly results in over-inflated prices.

I think you are right. The best way to experience U1 this day is the use he fan made renderer. Getting very rare cards just to play Unreal in it's full glory is financially not feasible. Good to know that most win 98 games run well in direct 3d so so I can fully count on the gf 3 or gf 4 (that' the planned gpu for my upcoming system).

It is really a pity that the Vodoo cards are priced so over the top at the moment. Having Vodoo 2 SLI system would certainly have some appeal for me but not in the current price range.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 12:15:

Ok i see. Now I get it. So the only way to play Unreal 1 really properly would be on vodoo 2 or vodoo 3 system eh??

Not even that! Voodoo Graphics is what GlideDrv was originally made for. The optimizations done for the Voodoo2 are when the visual regressions start with multitexturing darkening the game considerably to Quake2-amounts of dark (later patches shift the lightmaps up with a clamp so it's GLQuake-ish levels of scale). Voodoo3 was the same deal but now with no opportunity to use the earlier versions. The Banshee probably offers a visually better Unreal experience than the V2/V3.

Canonically, SoftDrv's the driver Unreal's developed on for most of its time, and that had overbrights which Glidedrv -sort of had (not on models)- before multitexturing. D3DDrv, SGLDrv and OpenGLDrv try to do some texture load compensations to attempt matching SoftDrv's lighting scale. GlideDrv had hardware gamma.

D3DDrv also puts more detail texture layers on so the fill isn't identical to GlideDrv and anyone doing '3dfx vs everyone else!!! 3dfx rulez' benchmark with that is up for misleading.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-05-17, 12:41:

I think you are right. The best way to experience U1 this day is the use he fan made renderer.

unfortunately with the cruft that goes with it like gratutious detail textures overlaid on models and liquids, and new environment maps plopped on maps that stick out, i'd say it's a rock and a hard place. Also the renderer's only one part of it, you'll also have frame pacing issues and sound issues, and of course, eternally unfixed gameplay issues and digital availability issues 😀

Thanks for the info. It seems then that Unreal is difficult game to run properly. Luckily I am not effected by the digital availability issues at least. I got Unreal 1 2, and also UT many years ago on gog before it has been removed.

It is very interesting to learn more about the development history of the first Unreal.

leileilol wrote on 2023-05-19, 03:18:

Not even that! Voodoo Graphics is what GlideDrv was originally made for. The optimizations done for the Voodoo2 are when the visual regressions start with multitexturing darkening the game considerably to Quake2-amounts of dark (later patches shift the lightmaps up with a clamp so it's GLQuake-ish levels of scale).

Can't that be counteracted by setting UseMultiTexture=false in the d3d and OpenGL renderers?
When developing the d3d10 renderer I investigated multitexture behavior (http://kentie.net/article/multipass/index.htm) and the D3D10 renderer with stock settings and no additional texture packs etc should match the blending/gamma of the Glide renderer. Though I believe it does use more detail texture passes, like the D3D renderer did.

It's theoretically possible to hack around the exposed shader files of the new D3D renderers to get it looking closer to early GlideDrv and even SoftDrv (yank out gamma and bind the brightness to multiply lighting instead).