TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-05-24, 04:49:

... acquiring say an old video card for $5 then selling it for $320, because sure 64x profit is reasonable right? Not $50, not even $100 (which is still 20x profit.....). The only reason retro hardware has inflated in price is rich hipsters keep paying these insane prices, and scalpers are literally holding cards hostage. They'd rather sit on it for 6 months to a year priced in the hundreds of dollars range and wait for a rich sucker to buy it than sell it at a reasonable rate.

I'd agree its personally irritating when someone with more money comes along and buys a luxury/hobby item at a price i am not prepared (or able to buy), perhaps more so when i believe the seller has been hanging onto it for some time in anticipation of the eventual high price buyer

what i am not sure about is what the 'solution' is, even if there is any 'solution' either possible or necessary ? i cant think of a set of rules/laws for instance relating to limiting sales price multiples of cost price, limiting the time something can be on sale for, testing the 'genuineness' of the buyers interest in the item, arbitrary ceilings on leisure spending, various other subjective tests of worthiness and so on that would not have such as slew of 'unintended consequences' so as to completely wreck the whole process

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-05-24, 10:48:

Elsa_Gladiac_511.jpg

Bought this ELSA Gladiac 511 (GeForce 2 MX400) for 6 EUR on my local classifieds. I only got it because I wanted an ELSA branded graphics card in my youth, but they were out of my price range at the time. This manufacturer used premium components and their GPUs always had outstanding image quality. And I'm happy to say that this card is no exception. Granted, it's not as sharp as a Matrox G400, but it's still much better than what most GeForce 2 cards display out of the box.

Now, if only I could find the official driver CD image for this card. Obviously, I know that I can just use Nvidia's reference drivers, but ELSA always had some customized driver options that I wanted to check out first hand. I've only seen those in period correct reviews and magazines.

that's a nice find, geforce 2 has such a range of computers it can sit in and still give good enough performance

gerry wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:05:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-05-24, 04:49:

... acquiring say an old video card for $5 then selling it for $320, because sure 64x profit is reasonable right? Not $50, not even $100 (which is still 20x profit.....). The only reason retro hardware has inflated in price is rich hipsters keep paying these insane prices, and scalpers are literally holding cards hostage. They'd rather sit on it for 6 months to a year priced in the hundreds of dollars range and wait for a rich sucker to buy it than sell it at a reasonable rate.

I'd agree its personally irritating when someone with more money comes along and buys a luxury/hobby item at a price i am not prepared (or able to buy), perhaps more so when i believe the seller has been hanging onto it for some time in anticipation of the eventual high price buyer

what i am not sure about is what the 'solution' is, even if there is any 'solution' either possible or necessary ? i cant think of a set of rules/laws for instance relating to limiting sales price multiples of cost price, limiting the time something can be on sale for, testing the 'genuineness' of the buyers interest in the item, arbitrary ceilings on leisure spending, various other subjective tests of worthiness and so on that would not have such as slew of 'unintended consequences' so as to completely wreck the whole process

Yeah I don't know. Someone else replied that they aren't sure retro stuff is as big as people make it out to be, but I disagree when even massive YT channels like LTT are doing retro content now. The kind of person that has never touched retro hardware, sees an LTT video, then goes and hits Buy It Now on $1k of overpriced retro hardware is the kind of people that are supporting these inflated scalper prices. The line from scalper to true collector for me is actually actively preserving and maintaining your hardware for future generations along with continuously acquiring more hardware.

There's also a problem in alot of hobbies where people that originally got into it for the hardware saw prices starting to rise and all of a sudden they think they have their retirement fund sitting in boxes on a shelf, so they start defending scalping. Another problem is a lot of people in the retro space are right now at the peak of their earning potential working FAANG and other extremely high paying STEM jobs, and those people just have more money than common sense and don't care that they are ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I admittedly have no clue what the solution is, we are past the point where gatekeeping the hobby would be effective.

gerry wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:06:

that's a nice find, geforce 2 has such a range of computers it can sit in and still give good enough performance

Agreed, those cards are very versatile.

I had a soft spot for the GeForce 2 MX ever since I originally got one in early 2001. It was a huge upgrade over my old TNT2, and it even had enough performance to get me through the next couple of years. Pretty good for a budget product.

Yeah, all hobbies do cost money.

But whatever the hobby, it should not cost hundreds of dollars to get a piece of hardware that became obsolete in freakin' *1997* and is by all objective measures totally worthless today.
That is a predatory behaviour. These people are just waiting to take advantage of an idiot. And saying "It costs money, duh !" without looking at the context, is only enabling it.
And that's slowly making a hobby that was once enjoyable, into something that is not.
Giving people advice such as 'don't buy at that price' should be viewed as reasonable, instead of trying to close any debate about the topic with generic statements which make the community less welcoming.

HanSolo wrote on 2023-05-24, 12:28:

An offer from a private seller will always be cheaper than from a commercial store. With that perspective 20E is a good price IMHO

It was 16.50 euro with shipping. 😀 Also with P4 and Artctic cooling cooler. I rounded it for "20 bucks" as USD/EUR is changing. It's not from that shop, I've used only link to picture and specs.

Those two beauties - Intel TC430HX Tucson (interesting because it's Socket 7 HX motherboard but in ATX form factor - unfortunately it's version without integrated Virge) which came with Pentium 200MMX and Tyan Thunder S1837UANG which came with a single PIII 600MHz (Cu-mine). I negotiated a reasonable prices for both of them. Both work perfectly fine. Also some cards but nothing interesting (just typical Tsengs, 3coms and so on).

I have seen those Socket7 ATX boards before. I believe there is even 486 ATX boards out there.

brostenen wrote on 2023-05-24, 21:44:

I have seen those Socket7 ATX boards before. I believe there is even 486 ATX boards out there.

Yeah, me too but those were usually MVP2 FIC boards and similar. Not HX motherboards.

Anyway, any recommendations for a good vintage Full ATX case? Preferably not a big tower and not server case...

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-24, 22:24:

Anyway, any recommendations for a good vintage Full ATX case? Preferably not a big tower and not server case...

For the Tucson, considering it's a very early ATX board, it would feel right at home in one of Intel's first ATX cases, as mentioned in this thread.

Assuming you can find one, of course.

TheMobRules wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:02:

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-24, 22:24:

Anyway, any recommendations for a good vintage Full ATX case? Preferably not a big tower and not server case...

For the Tucson, considering it's a very early ATX board, it would feel right at home in one of Intel's first ATX cases, as mentioned in this thread.

Assuming you can find one, of course.

Well, perhaps my question was not clear enough - but it was about case for the Tyan S1837 (hence Full ATX). But thanks for the suggestion about the intel case - unfortunately I never seen one for sale in Poland (maybe some complete builds yes, but not just the case), but I will likely find something similar.

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:24:

Well, perhaps my question was not clear enough - but it was about case for the Tyan S1837 (hence Full ATX)

Ah, that one would be EATX I think:

https://www.pcinq.com/pc-motherboard-form-factors-explained/

Unfortunately I don't recall seeing vintage EATX cases that weren't huge towers...

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:18:

Yeah I don't know. Someone else replied that they aren't sure retro stuff is as big as people make it out to be, but I disagree […]
Show full quote

gerry wrote on 2023-05-24, 15:05:

TheAbandonwareGuy wrote on 2023-05-24, 04:49:

... acquiring say an old video card for $5 then selling it for $320, because sure 64x profit is reasonable right? Not $50, not even $100 (which is still 20x profit.....). The only reason retro hardware has inflated in price is rich hipsters keep paying these insane prices, and scalpers are literally holding cards hostage. They'd rather sit on it for 6 months to a year priced in the hundreds of dollars range and wait for a rich sucker to buy it than sell it at a reasonable rate.

I'd agree its personally irritating when someone with more money comes along and buys a luxury/hobby item at a price i am not prepared (or able to buy), perhaps more so when i believe the seller has been hanging onto it for some time in anticipation of the eventual high price buyer

what i am not sure about is what the 'solution' is, even if there is any 'solution' either possible or necessary ? i cant think of a set of rules/laws for instance relating to limiting sales price multiples of cost price, limiting the time something can be on sale for, testing the 'genuineness' of the buyers interest in the item, arbitrary ceilings on leisure spending, various other subjective tests of worthiness and so on that would not have such as slew of 'unintended consequences' so as to completely wreck the whole process

Yeah I don't know. Someone else replied that they aren't sure retro stuff is as big as people make it out to be, but I disagree when even massive YT channels like LTT are doing retro content now. The kind of person that has never touched retro hardware, sees an LTT video, then goes and hits Buy It Now on $1k of overpriced retro hardware is the kind of people that are supporting these inflated scalper prices. The line from scalper to true collector for me is actually actively preserving and maintaining your hardware for future generations along with continuously acquiring more hardware.

There's also a problem in alot of hobbies where people that originally got into it for the hardware saw prices starting to rise and all of a sudden they think they have their retirement fund sitting in boxes on a shelf, so they start defending scalping. Another problem is a lot of people in the retro space are right now at the peak of their earning potential working FAANG and other extremely high paying STEM jobs, and those people just have more money than common sense and don't care that they are ruining the hobby for everyone else.

I admittedly have no clue what the solution is, we are past the point where gatekeeping the hobby would be effective.

Very interesting reflections.

IMHO when we're talking about obsolete hardware I think the market sets the fair price. If there's people willing to pay a price, then that's what it's worth.
That being said, I don't think it's a good idea to pay such prices 🤣
There's always an opportunity to buy things cheaper. There's always an alternative, i.e. buying lots, things sold as non-working/defective, etc. Waiting for a reasonable price is perhaps the best alternative.

I think there's a factor that needs to be taken into account and that is lifespan. As most of these items are not sitting in a museum, when the owner dies, they're sold by a relative that doesn't know about old hardware. This brings prices down.

Certain items will always be pricey (rare boards, rare sound cards), but generic items will always tend to be cheap.

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-24, 22:24:

brostenen wrote on 2023-05-24, 21:44:

I have seen those Socket7 ATX boards before. I believe there is even 486 ATX boards out there.

Yeah, me too but those were usually MVP2 FIC boards and similar. Not HX motherboards.

Anyway, any recommendations for a good vintage Full ATX case? Preferably not a big tower and not server case...

I have an A-Open AX5T which is a 430TX-based ATX board. Earliest ATX board I've personally come across - seems to predate the usual atx back port arrangement, having the PS/2 ports side by side instead of on top of each other, etc.

Picked this lot up yesterday all for just £10 - had to drive 60 mile round trip to get them (must be why no one else bid on them on eBay):

The HP Windows XP Tower weighs and absolute tonne!

The most interesting out of the lot is of course the old Apple Power Macintosh G3 PowerPC...

I regularly make 100 to 200km trips for local pickups. Well, if it's worth it of course 😉

TheMobRules wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:28:

Ah, that one would be EATX I think: […]
Show full quote

HanJammer wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:24:

Well, perhaps my question was not clear enough - but it was about case for the Tyan S1837 (hence Full ATX)

Ah, that one would be EATX I think:

https://www.pcinq.com/pc-motherboard-form-factors-explained/

Unfortunately I don't recall seeing vintage EATX cases that weren't huge towers...

Yes, you are right EATX (but I read the AnandTech's review of this board and they used "Full ATX" term which I guess was in use before this form factor was called EATX and somehow I used it as well).
Well, other way would be buying a modern case and making it look vintage I guess...

nach wrote on 2023-05-22, 07:19:

I got today a NOS Mitsubishi Amity SP, a super-ultra-mega rare 486 DX4 @75Mhz tablet pc that was opened only to take pictures of […]
Show full quote

I got today a NOS Mitsubishi Amity SP, a super-ultra-mega rare 486 DX4 @75Mhz tablet pc that was opened only to take pictures of it but there is no manual.

I tried to boot it up docked at its docking station (and not docked too) and it boots but it stops in the post screen and the screen blinks showing what you can see in the captures i uploaded.

I have seen other more modern models of Mitsubishi amity (amities?) and below the “detected xxx processor at xxxMhz it uses to show the available ram and other more info. I tried removing the installed ram and booting but i get black screen and unfortunately do not have other memory modules that fit so cannot check.

Although the hard disk doesn’t even start to spin i have tired it on a different pc and it works so it is not the hard disk (btw it is a pcmcia hard disk! i thought it was going to be a normal 2.5" ide one).

I also read somewhere that Mitsubishi computers of that era don’t even start if the cmos battery is dead, so it might not be? Anyway it is soldered on the motherboard. (No leaking condensers inside, everything is super clean) not sure if it is worth the effort to unsolder and so on.

Does anybody know what could be the fault? Could be that it is rebooting in an endless loop?
I get no beeps in the post neither, only 4 low volume short beeps when i try to start up with a pcmcia to sd card instead of the hard disk. The BIOS it seems is phoenix if it helps (i cannot even enter the bios, the system halts before being able to)
The keyboard flashed the 3 lights when pushing the power button on the computer so the bios is starting doing its things

Good news! I got today a coin cell battery case. I desoldered the old battery and put the new one and voila! It worked! Thank you very much for the tips about the battery.

The tablet works like a charm. The bummer is that as you can see in the pictures the screen seems half dead as there is a huge zone in the middle where the colors are inverted. I guess this is due to the age and cannot be repaired, right? (i cranked up the bright just to be able to take a proper system properties pic
The problem is that although the tablet has a "VGA out" connector, it is not an standard one. I attach a picture where you can see it.Is it a proprietary connection or perhaps this connection does exist? It is very similar to the vaio PCG-C1 one but the pins are in the middle of the connector, not in the outside. I would like to be able to hook it to a monitor as i would love to use the tablet at least as a minipc.

Thank you.

nach wrote on 2023-05-25, 09:45:

Good news! I got today a coin cell battery case. I desoldered the old battery and put the new one and voila! It worked! Thank yo […]
Show full quote

nach wrote on 2023-05-22, 07:19:

I got today a NOS Mitsubishi Amity SP, a super-ultra-mega rare 486 DX4 @75Mhz tablet pc that was opened only to take pictures of […]
Show full quote

I got today a NOS Mitsubishi Amity SP, a super-ultra-mega rare 486 DX4 @75Mhz tablet pc that was opened only to take pictures of it but there is no manual.

I tried to boot it up docked at its docking station (and not docked too) and it boots but it stops in the post screen and the screen blinks showing what you can see in the captures i uploaded.

I have seen other more modern models of Mitsubishi amity (amities?) and below the “detected xxx processor at xxxMhz it uses to show the available ram and other more info. I tried removing the installed ram and booting but i get black screen and unfortunately do not have other memory modules that fit so cannot check.

Although the hard disk doesn’t even start to spin i have tired it on a different pc and it works so it is not the hard disk (btw it is a pcmcia hard disk! i thought it was going to be a normal 2.5" ide one).

I also read somewhere that Mitsubishi computers of that era don’t even start if the cmos battery is dead, so it might not be? Anyway it is soldered on the motherboard. (No leaking condensers inside, everything is super clean) not sure if it is worth the effort to unsolder and so on.

Does anybody know what could be the fault? Could be that it is rebooting in an endless loop?
I get no beeps in the post neither, only 4 low volume short beeps when i try to start up with a pcmcia to sd card instead of the hard disk. The BIOS it seems is phoenix if it helps (i cannot even enter the bios, the system halts before being able to)
The keyboard flashed the 3 lights when pushing the power button on the computer so the bios is starting doing its things

Good news! I got today a coin cell battery case. I desoldered the old battery and put the new one and voila! It worked! Thank you very much for the tips about the battery.

The tablet works like a charm. The bummer is that as you can see in the pictures the screen seems half dead as there is a huge zone in the middle where the colors are inverted. I guess this is due to the age and cannot be repaired, right? (i cranked up the bright just to be able to take a proper system properties pic
The problem is that although the tablet has a "VGA out" connector, it is not an standard one. I attach a picture where you can see it.Is it a proprietary connection or perhaps this connection does exist? It is very similar to the vaio PCG-C1 one but the pins are in the middle of the connector, not in the outside. I would like to be able to hook it to a monitor as i would love to use the tablet at least as a minipc.

Thank you.

Excellent news! I'm glad to hear all you needed was a new bios battery. I've had them cause me a whole lot of grief in the past. I've actually gone back through my box of dead motherboards and dearest with fresh batteries and had found about 15-20 boards that worked just fine with the new battery.

FazzaGBR wrote on 2023-05-25, 06:54:

Picked this lot up yesterday all for just £10 - had to drive 60 mile round trip to get them (must be why no one else bid on them […]
Show full quote

Picked this lot up yesterday all for just £10 - had to drive 60 mile round trip to get them (must be why no one else bid on them on eBay):

20230524_121033000_iOS.jpg

The HP Windows XP Tower weighs and absolute tonne!

The most interesting out of the lot is of course the old Apple Power Macintosh G3 PowerPC...

amazing find for little cash! and they all look in good enough condition, will be fun for you going through them all