Hi, I'm a total newbie to the Roland SC 55. In overly simple terms, what version should I be looking for to have the most compatibility for dos gaming? The version with just the GS logo or with the GS/GM logo? What firmware? And please excuse my extreme ignorance here, ha.
KCJ101 wrote on 2023-03-23, 14:42:Hi, I'm a total newbie to the Roland SC 55. In overly simple terms, what version should I be looking for to have the most compatibility for dos gaming? The version with just the GS logo or with the GS/GM logo? What firmware? And please excuse my extreme ignorance here, ha.
From what I gather, firmware v1.20 or 1.21, with only a GS logo. However, one post I found while looking into this said "serial numbers greater than AC94800", which doesn't apply to my 1.20 unit.
Oetker wrote on 2023-03-23, 15:01:KCJ101 wrote on 2023-03-23, 14:42:Hi, I'm a total newbie to the Roland SC 55. In overly simple terms, what version should I be looking for to have the most compatibility for dos gaming? The version with just the GS logo or with the GS/GM logo? What firmware? And please excuse my extreme ignorance here, ha.
From what I gather, firmware v1.20 or 1.21, with only a GS logo. However, one post I found while looking into this said "serial numbers greater than AC94800", which doesn't apply to my 1.20 unit.
I appreciate the info. Was about to buy a GS/GM unit. But will hold off and look for a GS only with that firmware.
Oetker wrote on 2023-03-23, 15:01:KCJ101 wrote on 2023-03-23, 14:42:Hi, I'm a total newbie to the Roland SC 55. In overly simple terms, what version should I be looking for to have the most compatibility for dos gaming? The version with just the GS logo or with the GS/GM logo? What firmware? And please excuse my extreme ignorance here, ha.
From what I gather, firmware v1.20 or 1.21, with only a GS logo. However, one post I found while looking into this said "serial numbers greater than AC94800", which doesn't apply to my 1.20 unit.
Would a 55 with the Serial Number DD88219 most likely be 1.21?
Oetker wrote on 2023-03-23, 15:01:"serial numbers greater than AC94800", which doesn't apply to my 1.20 unit.
What is the serial number of your 1.20 unit?
KCJ101 wrote on 2023-03-23, 17:41:Would a 55 with the Serial Number DD88219 most likely be 1.21?
The exact introduction of v1.21 is unknown, but yes, that unit undoubtedly has it.
Does the GS/GM logo always indicate a 2.0 firmware or newer revision?
IMHO you are looking too much into this for gaming... sure it is an interesting find and discussion for the sake of"retro knowledge" but in reality *any* SC-55 will be great for gaming there is no need to hunt down specific serials or revisions
when you play for example the sewer level in DN3D both breath and click instruments work fine - plus you won't really mind in the heat of the action 😁
jm2c
Cloudschatze wrote on 2023-03-23, 17:56:Oetker wrote on 2023-03-23, 15:01:"serial numbers greater than AC94800", which doesn't apply to my 1.20 unit.
What is the serial number of your 1.20 unit?
AC94400
Interesting. I suppose it's possible that your unit was upgraded later, but given that AC94400 and AC94800 are within the same production month, the more-likely explanation is that the Service Bulletin is just slightly off.
Or maybe it's accurate, but they still had some of the old chips leftover that they were using up.
I've never had the chance to play with midi during the "Dos Days", I was lucky enough to get a Sound Blaster. Never saw these midi modules where I live - and during those days there was no Internet or webpages to browse, so I didn't even know they existed.
I've put together some retro PCs in the last 2 years and got the point where I would like to move from emulation (Dosbox or a mini-pc as versatile midi machine, as one of Phil's projects). You can find a lot of Sound Canvas available on Ebay, but that's overseas to me and it costs a kidney to import it (custom duties 60% on top of the Sound Canvas price including shipping).
Locally you can browse for months without seeing an unit for sale (on the "local" Ebay). Recently I saw a SC-55 for sale, I saw it was one of the early versions but had no idea if that was a good thing or not. I came up with this thread explaining the differences between the versions, and realized the version being sold was the 1.21 ROM version (GS symbol only and serial number starting with #DD). The price was what I would have paid at Ebay, without shipping and custom duties.
Well, gladly it is indeed the 1.21 ROM version and it works perfectly. No battery leaks also (just replaced it, but might just take it out). Just the power supply is not original, but it seems to be a good one (no noise/interfence so far).
I'm glad I came across this thread, I would probably passed on this one, thinking a SC-55 MKII or a SC-88 were better alternatives.
Aladim wrote on 2023-06-05, 21:01:I'm glad I came across this thread, I would probably passed on this one, thinking a SC-55 MKII or a SC-88 were better alternatives.
There are unique advantages to all three. Even the SC-55 has differences between ROM versions. I would say that the SC-88 or SC-88ST is the best choice of you can only pick one. It has all of the extra polyphony, as well as convenient SC-55 mapping.
I have a mini-pc doing emulation (Um-One MK2 cable, Plugins Sound Canvas, Yamaha MU80, MT32, etc) so I can satisfy my curiosity and try a SC-88 or even SC-8820.
As far as I understood from reading various discussions here, talking specifically about DOS gaming, there isn't much difference and SC-55 was the standard used during the soundtrack composition. Conceptually speaking, will those DOS games benefit from a SC-88?
I wanted to have one module, there was this chance and I took it (SC-55 1.21 rom). Even if I wanted a SC-88, it is simply not available here.
Regards
Besides instrument variations, the biggest improvement with the SC-88 is the increased polyphony. This is audible even in popular games like Warcraft 2, but you wouldn't otherwise notice a difference if you didn't know to watch for it.
Kahenraz wrote on 2023-06-06, 21:14:Besides instrument variations, the biggest improvement with the SC-88 is the increased polyphony. This is audible even in popular games like Warcraft 2, but you wouldn't otherwise notice a difference if you didn't know to watch for it.
WarCraft 2 can use CD audio for its music, so that particular example isn't super relevant.
With a SC-55 MK1 you get Capital Tone Fallback (CTF) which may be more important than increased polyphony, depending on which games you play. Also, even some later DOS games like Settlers 2 (1996) actually sound worse on a SC-55 MK2 and up. That has been documented earlier in this thread.
That CTF lawsuit by Yamaha really mucked things up for Roland. It's an unfortunate casualty.
Kahenraz wrote on 2023-06-06, 22:41:That CTF lawsuit by Yamaha really mucked things up for Roland. It's an unfortunate casualty.
It's perpetually unfortunate for users, yes, but Roland probably gained by people wanting the later generations for new polyphony and variations, and those old game bugs made us still want the earliest generation of the Sound Canvas family for the obvious sub/capital tone fallback (along with their remapped Sine Wave & Fl. Key Click variations for later true GM-compatibility).
So, I'm seeing while playing Blood that fluidsynth is missing a bunch of sounds (bank 56) using pretty much any .sf2 file I throw at it. What do I have to do to get complete sounds in Blood? Is it a situation that I would have to seek out and buy a specific SC-55 unit in order to even get the full compliment of instruments?
7F20 wrote on 2024-01-11, 22:03:So, I'm seeing while playing Blood that fluidsynth is missing a bunch of sounds (bank 56) using pretty much any .sf2 file I throw at it. What do I have to do to get complete sounds in Blood? Is it a situation that I would have to seek out and buy a specific SC-55 unit in order to even get the full compliment of instruments?
SC-55 (or even SC-88, SC-88Pro) does not have valid instruments at Bank 56 either. If it's not a conversion error then that Blood track is definitely not meant to be played on an SC-55.
Falcosoft wrote on 2024-01-12, 02:34:7F20 wrote on 2024-01-11, 22:03:So, I'm seeing while playing Blood that fluidsynth is missing a bunch of sounds (bank 56) using pretty much any .sf2 file I throw at it. What do I have to do to get complete sounds in Blood? Is it a situation that I would have to seek out and buy a specific SC-55 unit in order to even get the full compliment of instruments?
SC-55 (or even SC-88, SC-88Pro) does not have valid instruments at Bank 56 either. If it's not a conversion error then that Blood track is definitely not meant to be played on an SC-55.
Weird. I have Blood sound setup set to Sound Canvas, I expected that's what it meant. What else could it be?
Incidentally, I left this post here because on Page 9 of this thread, user spiffythedog notes that Blood uses "CTF for invalid variation tone bank change messages," so I thought that might be a clue to the error messages.
To be honest, I'm not sure what's it's supposedly missing at Bank 56, but it's substituting Bank 0 instead, so maybe that points to something? I wonder if it's playing the wrong stuff?
