Thanks for the info!
Just to make sure does that effect real CM32 devices as well or is it an error in Munt?
I guess the first one, though 😉

I don't have a real CM to test, so I guess there is the possibility it could be an emulation bug.

_Rob wrote on 2020-02-27, 13:07:

I did not find this issue easily online, so thought to post it here. […]
Show full quote

I did not find this issue easily online, so thought to post it here.

WC1 and WC2 from Origin Systems give incorrect sound effects when you use a CM32L or LAPC1. This is for instance noticeable during the WC1 intro where instead of laser sounds you get a bell sound instead.
Solution for MUNT is to ensure your using the MT-32 ROMs, and not the CM32L or LAPC1 ROMs.

...

I can not confirm this.

WC1 is working correctly (e.g. lasers, not bells in the intro) with MUNT 2.3.0 (and all previous versions) - installed driver configured for CM32L and/or via MUNT console and DOSBox SVN (many versions), DOSBox 74-3, and DOSBox-X.

However, you WILL get "bells" in the intro if the MIDI output device is GM/GS - this can happen if your DOSBox "midiconfig" setting isnt/is incorrectly set to a device other than the MUNT MT-32 device. The default Windows MIDI device is the "Microsoft GS WaveTable Synth" and would output "bells" if "midiconfig" is left blank or set to 0.

This can also happen even if no changes were made to a previously correctly configured "midiconfig" setting assuming some other app/utility/system process changed the Windows MIDI default device and/or the order of installed/registered MIDI devices (there are utilities and apps designed to do just this for Windows Vista and later).

In fact, this happened within the last day or three with my DOSBox+MUNT Windows 7 install - some system process or app changed the MIDI default device back to "Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth" (I had previously changed the default to SoundFont Bank A on the X-Fi loaded with Chorium rev A) - which caused my DOSBox "midiconfig" setting to refer to one of the X-Fi SF banks instead of the MUNT MT-32 device.

Another possibility is that your MUNT/MT-32 has been configured/remapped into GM mode, though considering the info about your setup this is highly doubtful.

So check your Windows MIDI default device/device order with "mixer /listmidi" in DOSBox to see if something changed the Windows MIDI default/order thus throwing your "midiconfig" setting off, and change it accordingly.

@DOSUserDude

I just tried it again just now on my Linux machine, as that is what I have access to right now, and was not able to reproduce the problem. So I'm not sure what the problem was. Just as a test, I set mididevice to fluidsynth and timidity and the sounds were wrong again, which does seem to suggest that GM was being used somehow.

btw mixer /listmidi returns empty on Linux with either DOSBox ECE r4334 or DOSBox-X 0.83.0

1C:\>mixer /listmidi
2
3C:\>cd WING
4C:\WING>type WINGCMDR.CFG
5v r z
6C:\WING>wc

aplaymidi -l FTW 😀

I have a real CM-32L and can confirm that it does not play right on the real hardware, thats because I found this thread whilst looking into what is causing my issue. 😀

Explosions, asteroids and weapons all sound odd.

original_meusli wrote on 2023-07-26, 15:54:

I have a real CM-32L and can confirm that it does not play right on the real hardware, thats because I found this thread whilst looking into what is causing my issue. 😀

Explosions, asteroids and weapons all sound odd.

I don't have real hardware, but I have played Wing Commander and Wing Commander 2 on MUNT/CM-32L, and it plays fine.

Your setup is not allowing Wing Commander's SysEx messages through to the CM-32L to correctly program the custom sounds that Wing Commander uses. Without knowing the details of your setup, the most likely culprit is a trashy $10 USB MIDI interface that only implements enough MIDI to "normally work" for people doing simple stuff like just plugging a keyboard into a PC.

original_meusli wrote on 2023-07-26, 15:54:

I have a real CM-32L and can confirm that it does not play right on the real hardware, thats because I found this thread whilst looking into what is causing my issue. 😀

Explosions, asteroids and weapons all sound odd.

What does your setup look like, in particular the interface that you use to connect your CM-32L to your computer?

I have it connected to a Motu Micro Express. Sound from PC is Keropi's/Leo's PC Midi card

Isn't this a known issue where you need old-version mt32 version to get correct programmed sounds in some games and these custom sounds will sound weird or new-version mt32-new/cm32/lapc/cm64 since all use the new-version hardware basis?

Some games like GODS are the exact opposite where they want the new-version mt32 and compatibles to get their customs sounds to be correct.

I am talking about the issue explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLvsaJ4h-VY&t=7576s

if it is some sysex issue then try a direct pcmidi->cm32L connection , if the cable is good there is no reason why it will not work
then you will know the culprit is probably the fancy midi-thru device...

Some games have custom instruments that sound "incorrect" on certain generations of LA32 hardware, yes. To my knowledge, Wing Commander and Wing Commander 2 are not among them. And Munt (typically, at least) reproduces these differences correctly. There's a particular drum-like sound used by Master of Orion that my MT-32 (old) doesn't reproduce correctly, and Munt also reproduces incorrectly when it's in MT-32 mode.

X-Wing's MT-32 sound effects sound *horrific* on MT-32(old).

The VOGONS database is a fantastic resource: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … _PC_compatibles

I plugged it in directly, skipping the midi box and got weird results. First time it failed so I thought I would record it for you all to hear, then upon restarting it worked perfectly. So I happily played it that way for a few missions, saved & exited. Now again on start up it is giving me odd notes, but this time it takes the game 3 restarts to get working correctly. Very odd, but probably more down to my unit?

It sounds like SysEx is not reliably making it to the CM-32L somehow....

What kind of bare metal is this running on? Wing Commander is not known to have SysEx timing issues, and the CM-32L shouldn't have the buffer overrun problems of the rev0 units. Physically there's nothing magical about SysEx, so if the unit is playing notes at all it shouldn't be a cable issue. And you're running on some modern reproduction sound card that's known to have good compatibility with things I think?

edit: You actually answered that above - A dedicated MIDI only card "Sound from PC is Keropi's/Leo's PC Midi card"

edit again: Do you have the ability to connect the CM-32L to a modern computer with a decent USB MIDI interface? I could take a capture of Wing Commander's complete opening and send it to you, and you could see if it plays back correctly on a modern PC.

is it only wing commander that exhibits this behavior?
for example Monkey Island 2 also programs new sounds, does it sound OK?
PCMIDI certainly has no issues with wing commander, maybe you should check if IRQ2 is truly free and available and if port330 is not shared with any other soundcard

Will do, thanks for helping guys.

As for now this is the only thing that I have noticed it being wierd on hence me searching and finding this thread. So far I have played Ultima Underworld 1, Indiana Jones Fate of Atlantis, Leisure Suit Larry 1 VGA and the Aces of Pacific/Europe games, without noticing any issues. No clashes on any IRQs or ports either. Will try Monley Island 2 tomoz.

I am 3 years late to see this thread, but I can confirm I never faced this problem, as the OP mentioned. I've used LAPC-I, CM-32L and CM-500 and all the sound effects were correct when I used years ago. Even when using MUNT with CM-32L roms, I still don't see any problems.

I only get this issue the first time it loads, if I load the game again I usually get correct sounds. Sometimes it takes a couple of trys, I can tell from the intro sounds of the lasers and asteroids, so this probably down to my setup as it would never work properly if it was incompatible.