VOGONS


Reply 160 of 209, by bloodem

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-02-27, 10:32:

I'm not sure if it will help, but the older version of the guide (which Phil based his pack on) didn't use any of the Creative utilities from the ZS disc, other than the SoundFont Manager, since they weren't compatible with SBLive cards. This is just a guess, but maybe the ZS drivers need some of those utilities (e.g. the EAX Control Panel) to work correctly with certain games. That was one of the reasons why I updated the guide to version 2.

Well, I backed up my old Win installation and just did a fresh Win98 install. This time, I went with different drivers as well (VIA 4in1 4.56 instead of 5.24, nVIDIA 45.23 instead of 30.82) and also installed DirectX 9.0 (I was using DirectX 8.1 before).
I also followed your new guide for installing the Audigy 2 drivers for SB Live cards and... at least the Nocturne issue is still there (once I access this game, even for a short period of time, Windows hangs during the subsequent reboot/shutdown). I was unable to replicate the Tomb Raider 4 "missing sound" problems yet, since those happen randomly (sometimes after 10 minutes of gameplay, other times after one hour or more).
So, the most likely cause is the one that you mentioned previously: newer drivers / newer problems (in certain games). 😀
Sometime in the following weeks I will play with another PC (Pentium 3 1 GHz / 440BX chipset), which has an SB0100 SB Live. I will specifically test to see if that platform has the same problem in these games with the same sound drivers.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-02-27, 10:32:

Blasphemy! 😁 Granted, the gameplay is not everyone's cup of tea, but I'd give it a shot just for the excellent EAX and surround sound implementation. Especially in the second and third games.

Truthfully, I don't even remember the gameplay. I know that some of my friends used to play Thief 2, but for some reason I was not impressed by it (although, during that time, my poor AMD K6-2 500 MHz + ATI Rage IIC 8 MB combo would probably have been unable to properly run this game).
I see that the game is available on GOG, I will give it a try. Thank you! 😀

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
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Current PC: Ryzen 7 5800X3D
Backup PC: Core i7 7700k

Reply 161 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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bloodem wrote on 2023-02-27, 12:40:

Sometime in the following weeks I will play with another PC (Pentium 3 1 GHz / 440BX chipset), which has an SB0100 SB Live. I will specifically test to see if that platform has the same problem in these games with the same sound drivers.

Nice! Let me know if the issues persist there as well.

Truthfully, I don't even remember the gameplay. I know that some of my friends used to play Thief 2, but for some reason I was not impressed by it (although, during that time, my poor AMD K6-2 500 MHz + ATI Rage IIC 8 MB combo would probably have been unable to properly run this game).

Yeah, Thief 2 did need a beefy CPU and a decent GPU (for the time) if you want a stable 30+ FPS (not to mention 60+). I learned this first hand, when I tried to play it on a Celeron 433 with a TNT2 back in the day. 😀

I see that the game is available on GOG, I will give it a try. Thank you! 😀

Note that the GOG versions of Thief 1&2 have third-party mods/patches (meant for modern systems) integrated by default, so they might not be retro friendly. OTOH, the retail CD version + latest official patch works great under Win9x, with EAX and full 5.1 surround sound.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 163 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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pcat wrote on 2023-03-26, 10:36:

So have you found out which way to go on winxp32 with sb live! (0220)?

This guide is not applicable to WinXP because VxD drivers cannot be installed on that OS.

However, if you're simply looking for SB0220 drivers which work under WinXP, you can use the official driver CD for that card.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 164 of 209, by pcat

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-03-26, 11:35:
pcat wrote on 2023-03-26, 10:36:

So have you found out which way to go on winxp32 with sb live! (0220)?

This guide is not applicable to WinXP because VxD drivers cannot be installed on that OS.

However, if you're simply looking for SB0220 drivers which work under WinXP, you can use the official driver CD for that card.

Thank you, bro, but actually not that simple ((
I've installed aforementioned driver CD on a virgin Winxp without a sinlgle yellow device in manager and have set it up the right way. And it did perform nicely while playing through Quake2 DMA engine, but when i switched over to OpenAl and EAX it started crackling terribly and turning off EAX barely helped. Then i tried installing current official OpenAl API and sound totally disappeared... ((
Any thoughts?
And sorry for being offtop

Last edited by pcat on 2023-03-26, 16:48. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 165 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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I suggest opening a new thread for your issues as that has nothing to do with this guide.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 166 of 209, by Bostarch

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Hey all. Thanks for the helpful guide, I got my SB0100 working quickly for most of my DOS games on my Win98SE rig.

However, some games like Xcom Apocalypse and Caesar 3 have stuttering issues even after setting sample rate back to performance. I heard that using WDM drivers could help, but when I replaced VxD drivers it broke general DOS game compatibility.

Any advice or suggestions on what I can do to resolve these stutters with VxD drivers? Thanks!

Reply 167 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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Bostarch wrote on 2023-04-21, 18:36:

Hey all. Thanks for the helpful guide, I got my SB0100 working quickly for most of my DOS games on my Win98SE rig.

However, some games like Xcom Apocalypse and Caesar 3 have stuttering issues even after setting sample rate back to performance. I heard that using WDM drivers could help, but when I replaced VxD drivers it broke general DOS game compatibility.

Any advice or suggestions on what I can do to resolve these stutters with VxD drivers? Thanks!

Are you using a motherboard based on a VIA chipset? Some of those have issues with SBLive cards.

Otherwise, it's possible that Creative's latest drivers (from 2004) don't work perfectly with some older Win9x games. If you don't mind losing soundfont support in DOS games, try this official SB0100 driver CD and see if the issues persist.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 168 of 209, by Bostarch

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-04-21, 19:22:

Are you using a motherboard based on a VIA chipset? Some of those have issues with SBLive cards.

Otherwise, it's possible that Creative's latest drivers (from 2004) don't work perfectly with some older Win9x games. If you don't mind losing soundfont support in DOS games, try this official SB0100 driver CD and see if the issues persist.

The alternative drivers you posted completely resolved the stuttering in all games, sound is now smooth and without distortions. I simply uninstalled all 2004 creative drivers and then installed the ones from CD that you linked. While I'm going to miss the SC-55 in some games, having acceptable sound quality across the board is more important.

I have GA-7VT880 with VIA KT880 chipset, I did make sure to install all relevant chipset drivers to avoid problems though.

Thank you for providing such efficient support to the retro community!

Reply 170 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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Siran wrote on 2023-07-14, 13:15:

Thank you, great tutorial - worked like a charm on my CT4830 with added CT4660

Glad to hear it! Enjoy!

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 171 of 209, by derpmochump

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2020-06-02, 14:40:

0.0 Disclaimer:

3.3 Run C:\AU1\DirectX\dxsetup.exe which will install DirectX 9.0a and restart your computer (if you already have a newer version installed, skip this step)

Can this part be skipped? I don't want to install past dx7.0a

MSI MS-6734 KM3M mobo / Athlon XP 3000+ /512mb ddr1 ram
Voodoo 3 3000 PCI @185mhz / Aureal vortex 2 (dell oem)
3dfx ref. drivers win98se and dual boot with winXP-32 bit running amigasport 3.0 3dfx drivers oc'd with koolsmokey's V.Control in XP

Reply 172 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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derpmochump wrote on 2023-07-21, 17:32:

Can this part be skipped? I don't want to install past dx7.0a

The original Audigy 2 ZS installation disc shipped with DirectX 9.0a. Updating to that DirectX version is a mandatory (non-skippable) step during the regular driver installation procedure. This suggests that the drivers may require some functionality from DirectX 9.0a (or better) which is why I also list it in my guide.

It's difficult to say how relevant this requirement truly is without either disassembling the driver or looking at the original source code. Neither of which I am able to do.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 173 of 209, by derpmochump

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okay thanks i will keep using the older version

MSI MS-6734 KM3M mobo / Athlon XP 3000+ /512mb ddr1 ram
Voodoo 3 3000 PCI @185mhz / Aureal vortex 2 (dell oem)
3dfx ref. drivers win98se and dual boot with winXP-32 bit running amigasport 3.0 3dfx drivers oc'd with koolsmokey's V.Control in XP

Reply 174 of 209, by Martli

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Long time lurker, first time poster here. ...

I just wanted to add that I managed to get this to work on a CT4870 (not to be confused with the CT4780) - both windows and DOS drivers. I managed to do it on two fresh Win98se installs (so the first attempt wasn't a fluke). I see that this card's not on the list yet, so hopefully that's useful info. I've heard this is a problematic card being one of the OEM Live! cards requiring special drivers, so I'm quite happy about that (plus I got it cheap).

It wasn't without some challenges though - the VxD driver installation stalled a few times and I got an 'add new hardware' wizard pop up on one attempt that killed the install, but I found the driver uninstallation feature on the driver update utility was able to tidy up the failed installs, and on both attempts I managed to get it on about the third try. Not really sure what was causing it to freeze, but I got there in the end. All other steps went fine. For what it's worth, I've also used this method to install the VxD drivers for my Audigy 2zs and ran into zero problems on that, so maybe it's a quirk with this particular card. Who knows.

Anyway, thanks heaps Joseph, super useful guide!

Fenrir Asus P5A | Pentium MMX 166 | Ymf719 | ES1868f | SC-88ST pro
Neptune Asus P3B-F | PIII 600 | Voodoo3 | Audigy 2 | SB16
Thor Intel D865GBF | P4 3.0ghz | 4200ti | Audigy 2ZS
Jupiter Intel DH77KC | i5 3470 | GTX 670 | X-Fi

Reply 175 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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Martli wrote on 2023-09-13, 09:27:

Long time lurker, first time poster here. ...

I just wanted to add that I managed to get this to work on a CT4870 (not to be confused with the CT4780) - both windows and DOS drivers. I managed to do it on two fresh Win98se installs (so the first attempt wasn't a fluke). I see that this card's not on the list yet, so hopefully that's useful info. I've heard this is a problematic card being one of the OEM Live! cards requiring special drivers, so I'm quite happy about that (plus I got it cheap).

Cheers! Added CT4870 to the list.

For what it's worth, I've also used this method to install the VxD drivers for my Audigy 2zs and ran into zero problems on that, so maybe it's a quirk with this particular card. Who knows.

For Audigy2 ZS cards, the installation procedure is slightly different. I have a separate guide for that.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 176 of 209, by Martli

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-09-13, 09:38:

For Audigy2 ZS cards, the installation procedure is slightly different. I have a separate guide for that.

Yeah, sorry I wasn't clear in my original post, I meant the VxD bit specifically... I did actually use your audigy guide for the 2zs (thanks for that too!).

Fenrir Asus P5A | Pentium MMX 166 | Ymf719 | ES1868f | SC-88ST pro
Neptune Asus P3B-F | PIII 600 | Voodoo3 | Audigy 2 | SB16
Thor Intel D865GBF | P4 3.0ghz | 4200ti | Audigy 2ZS
Jupiter Intel DH77KC | i5 3470 | GTX 670 | X-Fi

Reply 177 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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I'm about to update this guide to version 3.0. If anyone needs the old 2.1 version of the guide, it will be archived here.

ARCHIVED version 2.1 of the guide

0.0 Disclaimer:

This guide is provided "as is" and free of charge. There is no warranty or support of any kind. By using this guide, you acknowledge and agree that you do so at your sole risk. The author is not liable for any damages and claims arising from the use of this guide.

0.1 Introduction:

This guide makes it possible for a Sound Blaster Live to use VxD drivers while still being able to load soundfonts for General MIDI music in DOS games. Note that this only works when DOS games are running from within Windows 98. If you choose "Restart in MS-DOS mode" then the card will use the (worse sounding) ECW sets instead. To my knowledge, there is no way to use .SF2 based soundfonts in pure DOS with a SBLive sound card. For reference, by using this guide, you get the following features from your Sound Blaster Live! under Windows 98SE:

  • EAX 1 and 2 support for Win9x games
  • Sound Blaster 16 emulation for DOS games
  • FM Synthesis emulation for DOS games
  • General MIDI emulation for DOS games
  • Soundfont support for DOS games running under Windows 98SE

I have personally tested this method with a Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 (model SB0100). Later on, different people have tested it with some other SBLive models as well, and all information about that has been summarized in this post.

1.Hardware and software requirements:

Before proceeding to the next section of this guide, make sure that the following hardware and software requirements are met. If they are not, the driver installation may fail.

1.1 Upon booting up your system, enter the BIOS and disable all COM and LPT ports in order to free up additional resources. If your motherboard has an integrated sound card, network card or any other integrated device that you are not using, disable it in the BIOS as well. Lastly, if you are not using USB, disable that too
1.2 During the driver installation process, the SBLive should be the only sound card in your system. Using a second sound card may cause the driver installation to fail
1.3 This guide has only been tested on Windows 98SE. A clean install of Windows 98SE must be performed before attempting the driver installation procedure. Do not use any "unofficial service packs". Only install the drivers for your motherboard and graphics card until you complete all the steps in this guide
1.4 The SBLive requires one free IRQs for the card itself. The value assigned to this IRQ varies from system to system, but it should not be the same as the IRQ assigned to the SB16 emulation device. Additionally, the SB16 emulation device requires three I/O ports, one IRQ and two DMA channels. The default values are: I/O ports 220, 330 and 388, IRQ 5, DMA 1 and DMA 5. If any of those resources are not free, the driver installation may fail. To determine if your system has enough free resources, under Windows 98SE click Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Information > Hardware Resources and check the IRQ, DMA and I/O sections

2. Preparation:

2.1 Download and install 7-Zip version 9.20 for 32-bit Windows (it works fine on Win98)
2.2 Download the Audigy2 ZS driver CD ISO
2.3 Use 7-Zip to extract the contents of the "Audigy_2_ZS_Install_CD.7z" to C:\AU1
2.4 After that, right click on "C:\AU1\Audigy 2 ZS Install CD.iso" > 7-Zip > Extract Here to unpack the contents of the ISO image (it may report some errors with CHM files but that's ok)
2.5 Download the Audigy DOS support package
2.6 Extract the contents of audigy2-dospack.rar to C:\AU2 (note: it appears that this archive was created with a newer version of WinRAR, you may need to unpack it on your modern computer)
2.7 Download the SBLive 5.1 SB0220 driver CD ISO
2.8 Copy the "SB_INSTAL SB0220.iso" file to C:\AU4
2.9 After that, right click on "C:\AU4\SB_INSTAL SB0220.iso" > 7-Zip > Extract Here to unpack the contents of the ISO image

3. Windows Driver Installation

3.1 Right click on My Computer > Properties > Device Manager > Sound, video and game controllers. If there is an "Ad Lib Compatible (OPL2)" device present there, right click on it > Remove > Ok
3.2 Run C:\AU1\CTShared\LaunchApp\SysInfo\Setup.exe which will install the Creative System Information utility and update the InstallShield Engine (important later)
3.3 Run C:\AU1\DirectX\dxsetup.exe which will install DirectX 9.0a and restart your computer (if you already have a newer version installed, skip this step)
3.4 Go to C:\AU1\Audio\Drivers\VxD > right click on VxD.cab > 7-Zip > Extract Files > C:\AU1\Audio\Drivers\ (this should populate the existing VxD folder with the files from the CAB)
3.5 Run C:\AU1\Audio\Drivers\CTZAPXX.exe and select "Driver Installation" and "VXD Drivers" then click Ok
3.6 Driver installation will take several minutes, don't interrupt the process until you are prompted to Restart then click Ok
3.7 After the restart, wait until the installer finishes, then go to Start > Settings > Control Panel > Multimedia > Audio > Playback > Advanced Properties > Performance > Sample Rate Conversion Quality > move the slider to "Best"
3.8 Start > Run > sndvol32.exe > Ok. Note that all the volume sliders are currently at 50% which is fairly quiet. You might want to move the sliders to a higher value and also mute any unused inputs

4. Installing Creative Utilities

4.1 Run C:\AU4\Audio\AudioHQ\Setup.exe and install Creative AudioHQ (if you get an InstallShield Engine error here, repeat step 3.2)
4.2 Run C:\AU4\Audio\Diagnose\Setup.exe and install Creative Diagnostics
4.3 Run C:\AU4\Audio\Restore\Setup.exe and install Creative Restore Defaults
4.4 Run C:\AU4\Audio\SurMix2\Setup.exe and install Creative Surround Mixer
4.5 Start > Programs > Creative > Creative AudioHQ > Speaker and select the speaker setup that you are using, then click "Test" (in the screenshot below I'm using 5.1 speakers)

5. DOS Driver Installation

5.1 Run C:\AU2\AUDIGY DOS DRIVER\Setup.exe and restart when prompted
5.2 Wait until the Creative SB16 Emulation drivers are fully installed (this may take a few minutes)
5.3 During the boot process you might see a "Config file incomplete" error. Restart your computer one more time and it should disappear

If the installation was successful, you should now have the following under Device Manager:

Congrats on being able to use soundfonts in DOS games while running VxD drivers. Currently, the SBLive is using Creative's default 2 MB soundfont. If you want something that sounds much better, see below.

6. SC-55 Sound Font Installation (optional)

6.1 Download Patch93's SC-55 soundfont and extract the archive contents to C:\AU3
6.2 Download SF Pack and extract the archive contents to C:\AU3
6.3 Run C:\AU3\SFPACK.EXE > Ok > File > Add Files > Files of type: SFPack Files > C:\AU3\SC-55.sfpack > Open
6.4 After that, click File > Go/Stop. Wait for about 30 seconds. Now, if everything worked ok, you should have a SC-55.sf2 file in C:\AU3 (file size should be 45.1 MB)
6.5 Start > Programs > Creative > Creative AudioHQ > SoundFont
6.6 Click on "Options" and use the slider to set SoundFont Cache to 50 MB
6.7 Click on "Configure Bank" then click on the default soundfont (2GMGSMT Rev N++) to select it, then click Replace, point to C:\AU3\Sc-55.sf2 wait a few seconds until it loads then click Ok > Close
6.8 Run your favorite DOS game (like Duke3D for example) and in setup choose General MIDI for music

Listen to the MP3s attached above to check how Duke3D sounds on a SBLive using this soundfont. For comparison, here's Duke3D on a real SC-55.

7. Getting MT-32 compatibility in pure DOS (optional)

7.1 Start > Shutdown > Restart in MS-DOS mode
7.2 C:\Progra~1\Creative\DOSDrv\sbemixer.exe
7.3 Make sure that the MT-32 option is checked, then click Save and press ESC to exit
7.4 Run your favorite DOS game that supports MT-32 (like Monkey Island for example)

Note that MT-32 emulation doesn't sound too great on this card, but I'm including it for completeness sake.

That said, these drivers also allow your SBLive to emulate FM Synthesis, should you want that. Of course, this sounds different from a genuine OPL3 chip, but it may still be somewhat usable, depending on the game that you're playing.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 178 of 209, by Joseph_Joestar

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Guide updated to version 3.0. Changes in this release:

  • The guide can now be used on Windows ME as well
  • All driver components have been combined into a single ISO image, and can be installed directly from the CD
  • Added a potential incompatibility warning for owners of motherboards which use Nvidia nForce, Intel ICH10+ or VIA chipsets

If anyone's curious about the modified ISO image, the Audio\Drivers folder has been replaced with the one from the Audigy 2 ZS disc, the SysInfo folder from the same disc has been added to CTShared\LaunchApp, and the DOSDRV folder (from the Audigy 1 driver disc) has been added to the root of the image, with CheckOS.exe being renamed to CheckOS.bak so that DOS drivers can be installed on WinME.

Last edited by Joseph_Joestar on 2023-11-29, 09:19. Edited 1 time in total.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 179 of 209, by brunobox99

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Here's my report:

CT4830 working good under WIN98SE.

Only one game has no sound: Tyrian 2000.

Both the unpatched (v1.0) and the patched (v1.3) versions does not produce any digital sound. Only MIDI is available.

Can anyone confirm this?