aries-mu wrote on 2023-09-25, 20:57:

Well, all we'd need are 2 or 3 current cases with drive bays. There are a few. They can be converted into almost perfect replicas of the above cases just by modifying the front bezel.
The back would be more challenging, if one wanted to be able to make it compatible also for AT mobos. Unless, somehow, the ATX plate could be re-designed... or maybe the case could come with a set of extender cables for all the back ports of the AT mobo, which would then be screwed into an ad-hoc redesigned ATX back plate... If needed, cutting away an area of the back of existing cases to make room to plug such extensions onto the back-connectors of an AT mobo would still be a minor modification for 'retro' versions of such modern cases. It would not require any re-engineering...

AT-boards typically had up to 8 expansion slots in comparison to ATX which only has 7.

To be properly AT-compatible, you'd want all 8 slots available, especially if you're looking to replicate cases from the 486 era. Otherwise you'd be limited to boards with fewer than 8 slots.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-09-25, 20:58:

Re: ATX I/O shield models for 3D printing

😳 oh interesting! Thanks

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-25, 21:09:

AT-boards typically had up to 8 expansion slots in comparison to ATX which only has 7.

To be properly AT-compatible, you'd want all 8 slots available, especially if you're looking to replicate cases from the 486 era. Otherwise you'd be limited to boards with fewer than 8 slots.

That's true, but I wouldn't say you are "limited" to such boards, it's just that the 8th slot will be physically blocked. PCI boards often have given up the 8th slot anyway, and it doesn't come to my mind any VLB boards that put a VLB slot there. Sometimes the 8th slot is 8-bit ISA which limits its utility, too.

The slot thing is bigger for MicroATX only having four slots, yet (with a little drilling for different mounting holes) some Baby AT boards fit nicely in a MicroATX. I/O card, video card, sound card, ethernet card, and then you're out of slots (and that's assuming you aren't stuck with any 8-bit slots in the bottom four either).

Hi! i couple of month ago, i found for very cheap a nice AT front panel just 5 euro, and i bought, came front, power button and LED, all working

A couple of days ago, i found a HORRIBLE atx case, but same size, exactly for a panel front transplant. I disassemble the atx case, remove the original front and clean

I paint all, to recover the nice original colors

I decide to build a Pentium 3 1ghz full ATX board, VIA chipset for perfect throttle, 3 ISA, 4 PCI, 1AGP

The front panel match perfect the size, just i need to arrangle a little the 5 and 3 inch bays for cd, floppy etc because dont match very well, but was easy

Im still making the computer, painting the sides and looking for a HDD removable bay

HanSolo wrote on 2023-09-23, 12:59:

I would buy them. But for small cases it would have to be 'real' AT, because they can be build smaller than ATX. The small ones in your images don't have room for an ATX board so a replaceable panel won't work.

A small atx case have same size as baby AT, and have space for a full size ATX board, just need to have the psu in vertical

jakethompson1 wrote on 2023-09-25, 21:57:

That's true, but I wouldn't say you are "limited" to such boards, it's just that the 8th slot will be physically blocked. PCI boards often have given up the 8th slot anyway, and it doesn't come to my mind any VLB boards that put a VLB slot there. Sometimes the 8th slot is 8-bit ISA which limits its utility, too.

Even if the slot isn't on the board, having it on the case can still be useful. I typically use bracketed CF adapters along with multiple sound cards, so filling up 8 expansion slots on the back is pretty trivial.

Even an 8-bit slot is still useful for MIDI cards and certain sound cards (Roland SCC-1, LAPC-I, etc.).

theelf wrote on 2023-09-25, 22:11:

Hi! i couple of month ago, i found for very cheap a nice AT front panel just 5 euro, and i bought, came front, power button and […]
Show full quote

Hi! i couple of month ago, i found for very cheap a nice AT front panel just 5 euro, and i bought, came front, power button and LED, all working

IMG_20230916_131546.jpg

A couple of days ago, i found a HORRIBLE atx case, but same size, exactly for a panel front transplant. I disassemble the atx case, remove the original front and clean

IMG_20230916_134614_1.jpg

I paint all, to recover the nice original colors

IMG_20230916_142417.jpg

I decide to build a Pentium 3 1ghz full ATX board, VIA chipset for perfect throttle, 3 ISA, 4 PCI, 1AGP

IMG_20230916_151332.jpg

The front panel match perfect the size, just i need to arrangle a little the 5 and 3 inch bays for cd, floppy etc because dont match very well, but was easy

Im still making the computer, painting the sides and looking for a HDD removable bay

Sin título2.jpg

A small atx case have same size as baby AT, and have space for a full size ATX board, just need to have the psu in vertical

Woooow this is fantastic!!! Excellent job!!!! 😳

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-25, 21:09:

AT-boards typically had up to 8 expansion slots in comparison to ATX which only has 7.

To be properly AT-compatible, you'd want all 8 slots available, especially if you're looking to replicate cases from the 486 era. Otherwise you'd be limited to boards with fewer than 8 slots.

Well, I think with 8 slots it shouldn't be a big deal giving up just one...

Bracketed CF cards adapters, yes indeed! By the way, all those bracketed CF and SD card adapters have poorly made brackets, they actually hit slots, don't fit anywhere... it's insane!

aries-mu wrote on 2023-09-26, 07:20:

Well, I think with 8 slots it shouldn't be a big deal giving up just one...

For the types of builds I do, it is. Especially if we're talking AT hardware in the 386 or early 486-era.

The original question was whether we would buy a replica case. If the replica case looks like an early 90's design, but can't accommodate the hardware of an early 90's build, then no I would not buy it.

I'd rather use an authentic case that has a full 8 expansion slots.

Come to think of it, this also affects power supply switches. Since cases with things like rocker switches were designed for mains voltage. So how would an ATX type case work with the front end of an AT style case?

Bracketed CF cards adapters, yes indeed! By the way, all those bracketed CF and SD card adapters have poorly made brackets, they actually hit slots, don't fit anywhere... it's insane!

They seem designed to fit alongside PCI adapters, not ISA. Not a big deal though, I always find a way to make everything fit.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

For the types of builds I do, it is. Especially if we're talking AT hardware in the 386 or early 486-era.

The original question was whether we would buy a replica case. If the replica case looks like an early 90's design, but can't accommodate the hardware of an early 90's build, then no I would not buy it.

I'd rather use an authentic case that has a full 8 expansion slots.

Good point!

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

Come to think of it, this also affects power supply switches. Since cases with things like rocker switches were designed for mains voltage. So how would an ATX type case work with the front end of an AT style case?

This, I didn't understand...

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

Not a big deal though, I always find a way to make everything fit.

I had no doubts about it! I wish I could too.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

Come to think of it, this also affects power supply switches. Since cases with things like rocker switches were designed for mains voltage. So how would an ATX type case work with the front end of an AT style case?

atx ps_on + gnd work great with at switches

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 13:10:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

Come to think of it, this also affects power supply switches. Since cases with things like rocker switches were designed for mains voltage. So how would an ATX type case work with the front end of an AT style case?

atx ps_on + gnd work great with at switches

Yup, there are adapters for ATX power supplies that allow an AT-style toggle switch to work. But the switch itself is still different than the momentary switches used on an ATX system.

aries-mu wrote on 2023-09-26, 13:07:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

Come to think of it, this also affects power supply switches. Since cases with things like rocker switches were designed for mains voltage. So how would an ATX type case work with the front end of an AT style case?

This, I didn't understand...

AT power supplies have toggle switches that run the full mains voltage (e.g. 120V if you're in North America) to turn the PSU on or off. Those grey rocker switches you see on the front of older cases are examples of those types of switches.

ATX power supplies typically will have the main voltage power switch on the PSU itself. Typically it will be a small black rocker switch. The power for the computer is actually toggled via a momentary switch connected to the ATX motherboard.

If a retro-style case is being designed to accommodate both AT or ATX setups, it would need to have some sort of modular switch design, where different switches (momentary vs toggle) could be installed and used with AT and ATX power supply configurations.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 14:54:

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 13:10:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 12:48:

Come to think of it, this also affects power supply switches. Since cases with things like rocker switches were designed for mains voltage. So how would an ATX type case work with the front end of an AT style case?

atx ps_on + gnd work great with at switches

Yup, there are adapters for ATX power supplies that allow an AT-style toggle switch to work. But the switch itself is still different than the momentary switches used on an ATX system.

Just cut both cables and put on at switch. No need for more

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 15:59:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 14:54:

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 13:10:

atx ps_on + gnd work great with at switches

Yup, there are adapters for ATX power supplies that allow an AT-style toggle switch to work. But the switch itself is still different than the momentary switches used on an ATX system.

Just cut both cables and put on at switch. No need for more

Huh? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

I'm referring to the fact that AT supplies use toggle switches versus an ATX using a momentary switch connected to the motherboard.

The latter doesn't work with the former.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:14:

Huh? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 15:59:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 14:54:

Yup, there are adapters for ATX power supplies that allow an AT-style toggle switch to work. But the switch itself is still different than the momentary switches used on an ATX system.

Just cut both cables and put on at switch. No need for more

Huh? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

I'm referring to the fact that AT supplies use toggle switches versus an ATX using a momentary switch connected to the motherboard.

The latter doesn't work with the former.

Just cut both cables,wire to at switch, and you convert atx psu to use in at case

No need to mod anothing in at case

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:25:

Just cut both cables,wire to at switch, and you convert atx psu to use in at case […]
Show full quote

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:14:

Huh? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say. […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 15:59:

Just cut both cables and put on at switch. No need for more

Huh? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

I'm referring to the fact that AT supplies use toggle switches versus an ATX using a momentary switch connected to the motherboard.

The latter doesn't work with the former.

Just cut both cables,wire to at switch, and you convert atx psu to use in at case

No need to mod anothing in at case

IMG_20230916_151458.jpg

We're not talking about using an ATX psu in an AT case.

We're taking about a hypothetical ATX case using an AT board.

An ATX case converted to use an AT board will need a different switch than a standard ATX momentary switch.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:28:

We're not talking about using an ATX psu in an AT case. […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:25:

Just cut both cables,wire to at switch, and you convert atx psu to use in at case […]
Show full quote

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:14:

Huh? I'm not quite sure what you are trying to say.

I'm referring to the fact that AT supplies use toggle switches versus an ATX using a momentary switch connected to the motherboard.

The latter doesn't work with the former.

Just cut both cables,wire to at switch, and you convert atx psu to use in at case

No need to mod anothing in at case

IMG_20230916_151458.jpg

We're not talking about using an ATX psu in an AT case.

We're taking about a hypothetical ATX case using an AT board.

An ATX case converted to use an AT board will need a different switch than a standard ATX momentary switch.

aahh i believe the thread is about new atx case that looks like old ones

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:35:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:28:

We're not talking about using an ATX psu in an AT case. […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:25:

Just cut both cables,wire to at switch, and you convert atx psu to use in at case

No need to mod anothing in at case

IMG_20230916_151458.jpg

We're not talking about using an ATX psu in an AT case.

We're taking about a hypothetical ATX case using an AT board.

An ATX case converted to use an AT board will need a different switch than a standard ATX momentary switch.

aahh i believe the thread is about new atx case that looks like old ones

Right. Which means something like the rocker switches used on the front of AT cases would be incompatible with a pure ATX setup, if we're talking about an ATX-based case.

Thus the need to have modular design for the front switch to allow either a toggle switch (like the aforementioned rocker switches) in a AT configuration, versus a momentary switch in an ATX configuration.

FYI, momentary rocker switches do exist.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-26, 14:58:

AT power supplies have toggle switches that run the full mains voltage (e.g. 120V if you're in North America) to turn the PSU on or off. Those grey rocker switches you see on the front of older cases are examples of those types of switches.

ATX power supplies typically will have the main voltage power switch on the PSU itself. Typically it will be a small black rocker switch. The power for the computer is actually toggled via a momentary switch connected to the ATX motherboard.

If a retro-style case is being designed to accommodate both AT or ATX setups, it would need to have some sort of modular switch design, where different switches (momentary vs toggle) could be installed and used with AT and ATX power supply configurations.

Oh I see!
That's another issue to fix...
Ha! Another challenge, but for sure it can be worked around. Perhaps a little internal board to place somewhere in the case, which can accomodate both the momentary switch coming from ATX mobos and the toggle switch coming from an AT PSU. Then, this little board can be connected to the grey rocker switch (vintage original style) located on the front of the case. The little board then would have an internal switch, that can select between the 2.

If one installs an AT mobo, he selects the one coming from the AT PSU. If one installs an ATX mobo and ATX PSU, then they can move it to the other source. In this way, the gray frontal rocker switch can be set up to either work as a momentary switch (if used with an ATX PSU + ATX mobo) or as a mains power switch (if used with AT PSU + AT mobo).

In case of a hybrid configuration, which would be an AT mobo + ATX PSU + ATX to AT mobo power cable adapter, then I guess the little board would have to be switched acting for an ATX system, am I correct?

weedeewee wrote on 2023-09-26, 16:47:

FYI, momentary rocker switches do exist.

They do, but that doesn't solve the issue of need a toggle switch when using an AT-board, even with an ATX PSU. You still need a way to short the power and ground wires on the ATX power supply.

Plus if the whole intent is having a retro-style case to use with a retro (AT) build, an ATX case + power setup completely defeats that purpose. We're back to needing an authentic AT-style case for an actual AT build.