mattw wrote on 2023-10-03, 10:32:

appiah4 wrote on 2023-10-03, 07:17:

I just need to go back and re-read what kind of contraption I need to build.. Do you still want me to do that?

In the mean time I will write a small guide - not to waste time read - it's very simple

OK, here is a short guide:

0. you need to short pin12 and pin15 on the MIDI port (many ways to do that - depends on your taste and what have on hands):

- here is picture of which 2 pins (actually "holes") are Pin12 and Pin15:
Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

- here is how I shorted them (IMHO, the easiest way):
(instead Wire, I think bent in shape and use paperclip is feasible and available - at least I have paperclips around me):
Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

- here is how I short-them via stock cable (if you don't have such cable - the least feasible and most expensive way to do it):
Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

1. Obviously you need PC with ISA slot up and running, but Absolute Minimum of DOS installation is sufficient, I mean I literally did "sys c:" on an empty HDD, i.e. have only "IO.SYS", "MSDOS.SYS", "COMMAND.COM" with empty "AUTOEXEC.BAT" and empty "CONFIG.SYS"

2. to my Absolute Minimum DOS installation I copied only 3 things:
- "CTCM" directory from an existing installation of DOS system running Creative cards (I am using CTCM v1.04) - that is their PnP-Manager for PnP SB models like for example CT3890
- create "notpnp.bat" file with one single line:

1SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6

that to be used with models like CT2290 that are not PnP - on not PnP cards you need to make sure the jumpers on the card are set to "A220" and "P330" - that are the only 2 important ports for the Dump
- copy "sb16dump", found here:
Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

3. Install SB card, power-on your system and:

1C:\cd CTCM <Enter>
2C:\ctcm <Enter> --> that will tell if founds and init the card, if not it's either not PnP model or you need to clean the gold-fingers on the board and resit it in the ISA slot
3sb16dump <Enter> --> it it's not DSP V4.13 card it will tell you - keep list of your cards what is the DSP, if it's DSP V4.13 it will make the DUMP.BIN file

and for not PnP models:

1notpnp.bat< Enter>
2sb16dump <Enter>

that's it - as you see - even at this point it's already very simple.

Let me know if there are any on my list that you are interested in I can do a few of them on my bench tonight.

Just to complete the list of my tested cards:

V4.13 :
Model on the front top left - White number front bottom left - black number rear right top
CT2940 - 019529 - 45 DUMP : Re: The Soundblaster DSP project
CT2950 - 029538 - 59 DUMP : Re: The Soundblaster DSP project
CT3600 - 019532 - 00 DUMP : WILL BE ADDED AFTER I DID SOME TESTS WITH THE UPCOMING VERSION OF THE DUMPER TOOL.

V4.16 :
Model on the front top left - White number front bottom left - black number rear right top
CT4500 - 029715 - 00
CT4170 - 019720 - 71
CT4520 - 019729 - 20

appiah4 wrote on 2023-10-03, 11:39:

Let me know if there are any on my list that you are interested in I can do a few of them on my bench tonight.

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT1740: make note of the DSP chip Version, i think it's V4.05 for this model
(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT2290: I did this one, but as usual make note of the DSP version on your card

(UNSURE) Creative Sound Blaster 16 Value CT2770: check the DSP version first

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT2920: I believe no one already did that one

(UNSURE) Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2800: check the DSP version first

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2890 : I believe no one already did that one

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2940 : @DerBaum did that one

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA Vaue CT2960 : already dumped 2 time, one time by me, but you can check if your DSP is V4.13 or different

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2980 : I believe no one already did that one

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 WavEffects CT4170 --> please, read discussion about it in the recent posts - please, try it, if any of your card is DSP V4.13 report back

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster AWE32 CT3980 --> already dumped 2 time, one time by me, but you can check if your DSP is V4.13 or different

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster AWE64 Value CT4500 --> DSP 4.16 for sure, skip for the time being
(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster AWE64 Value CT4520 --> DSP 4.16 for sure, skip for the time being

In general on all that I say "HOLD" or "UNSURE" (I mean wait for @Maelgrum new version that will help sort the mess if it's new or already known dump), but do make a note of the DSP version of those "HOLD" and "UNSURE" card, while you're sorting through them (visual inspection, as it's usually written on the chip, V4.05, V4.12, etc), because it could be usable on a later stage.

mattw wrote on 2023-10-03, 11:57:

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT1740: make note of the DSP chip Version, i think it's V4.05 for this model OK, CT17410 V405 ( […]
Show full quote

appiah4 wrote on 2023-10-03, 11:39:

Let me know if there are any on my list that you are interested in I can do a few of them on my bench tonight.

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT1740: make note of the DSP chip Version, i think it's V4.05 for this model OK, CT17410 V405
(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT2290: I did this one, but as usual make note of the DSP version on your card OK, CT17410 V413

(UNSURE) Creative Sound Blaster 16 Value CT2770: check the DSP version first CT17410 V412

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 CT2920: I believe no one already did that one Unsure, will dump

(UNSURE) Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2800: check the DSP version first Unsure, will dump

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2890 : I believe no one already did that one Unsure, will dump

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2940 : @DerBaum did that one OK

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA Vaue CT2960 : already dumped 2 time, one time by me, but you can check if your DSP is V4.13 or different Unsure, will dump

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 VIBRA CT2980 : I believe no one already did that one OK

DO Creative Sound Blaster 16 WavEffects CT4170 --> please, read discussion about it in the recent posts - please, try it, if any of your card is DSP V4.13 report back OK, my card has black audio jacks

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster AWE32 CT3980 --> already dumped 2 time, one time by me, but you can check if your DSP is V4.13 or different OK

(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster AWE64 Value CT4500 --> DSP 4.16 for sure, skip for the time being OK
(HOLD) Creative Sound Blaster AWE64 Value CT4520 --> DSP 4.16 for sure, skip for the time being OK

In general on all that I say "HOLD" or "UNSURE" (I mean wait for @Maelgrum new version that will help sort the mess if it's new or already known dump), but do make a note of the DSP version of those "HOLD" and "UNSURE" card, while you're sorting through them (visual inspection, as it's usually written on the chip, V4.05, V4.12, etc), because it could be usable on a later stage.

I added my comments above. Cheers.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-10-03, 06:49:

I have a CT2950 with YMF289B instead of CQM...

Can you post a good quality picture (front and back) of your ct2950 with ymf289b opl?

Here is mine without OPL (4.13 DSP):

I think it could be a nice side project to try to find out of the missing opl´s can be retrofitted (in a new thread of course).

appiah4 wrote on 2023-10-03, 12:14:

I added my comments above. Cheers.

yes, in very short: anything different than V4.13 is HOLD at the moment (just make a note you have such and such model with its DSP version), anything V4.13, but already dumped is HOLD, anything V4.13, but not already dumped by someone else is DO, CT4170 is special case at the moment, i.e. check it and report your card. so, even if I made some mistakes on the list, you can do it based on the aforementioned criteria.

DerBaum wrote on 2023-10-03, 11:39:

Just to complete the list of my tested cards:

it's getting really messy and confusing - I think we either need Wiki and make a table there or sticky post with a table, that someone will maintain. otherwise, progressively it will become harder for everyone to follow what is dumped and what is not, what open questions are there (i.e. is really there CT4170 that is V4.13), etc.

mattw wrote on 2023-10-03, 12:50:

it's getting really messy and confusing - I think we either need Wiki and make a table there or sticky post with a table, that someone will maintain. otherwise, progressively it will become harder for everyone to follow what is dumped and what is not, what open questions are there (i.e. is really there CT4170 that is V4.13), etc.

So far, I see only one fw 4.13 present on all cards.
With 2 variations - 8k dump in discrete DSP, and 6k in integrated form.

I don't see the point of dumping every single 4.13 model card - we already have enough information to definitively determine that the effective code is identical. Who cares about what fill bytes are used or whatever?

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-10-03, 13:30:

I don't see the point of dumping every single 4.13 model card - we already have enough information to definitively determine that the effective code is identical. Who cares about what fill bytes are used or whatever?

cmon, dont spoil the fun all the sound blaster collectors are having right now! 😀

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-10-03, 13:30:

I don't see the point of dumping every single 4.13 model card - we already have enough information to definitively determine that the effective code is identical. Who cares about what fill bytes are used or whatever?

Obviously if people find a completely different one thats great (A crc check in the software would help alot with that) but the focus should be more on 4.16 imho.
This so reverse engineering/rewriting of the code can be done properly.

mattw wrote on 2023-10-03, 10:36:

because looking at the PCB dates and also the date code on "ViBRA 16XV" chip itself, it varies from 1996 to 1997 in my case, but all are V4.16: I will make you exact list of those 4 boards with dates. So, I am real interested someone with "ViBRA 16XV" and DSP 4.13 to report here.

If its not an error look for a 019720, black port card with what i attached as chip manufactured date, around 27th week of '97. (The attached picture is from the 'supposed 4.13' card linked earlier)
Had a look at it and thats probably a better way then using pcb as they might be populated at a later time and not at the manufacture date.

S95Sedan wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:01:

If its not an error look for a 019720, black port card with what i attached as chip manufactured date, around 27th week of '97. (The attached picture is from the 'supposed 4.13' card linked earlier)

that is good observation, the oldest I have is 3797. So, lets see maybe, someone here will find card with 2797 or earlier date code on the CT2511 chip.

Maelgrum wrote on 2023-10-03, 13:14:

So far, I see only one fw 4.13 present on all cards.
With 2 variations - 8k dump in discrete DSP, and 6k in integrated form.

yes, but it's like 30% maybe of all models dumped, judging from the vast list of card models @appiah4 listed (I am personally amazed how many models they made - I had no idea). so, at least, I will be convinced, when there is at least 1 dump from each model.

S95Sedan wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:01:

Had a look...

ok. it seems either week 28, 29, 30 or 31 was the switch to 4.16 .
Crazy that we have narrowed it down to 4 weeks that fast (if its a real 4.13 from 27).
Congrats on this find.

DerBaum wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:32:

ok. it seems either week 28, 29, 30 or 31 was the switch to 4.16 .

indeed, because your CT4170 card is with CT2511 chip is made week 31 of 1997 and confirmed as DSP V4.16. I hope we find someone with CT4170 DSP V4.13 card - that will end my "conspiracy theory" - that old articles and websites are correct and initially CT4170 was DSP V4.13, but then silently updated to V4.16 via driver updates and that's why all we find now are V4.16. However, if that "conspiracy theory" is true, then the drivers contain (probably encrypted) copy of DSP V4.16 and way to update newer chips like CT4170 (probably again via some encryption key that unlock the update process).

Oh my god this is the vogons thread of the year ! it started amazing with the bin fixed , so many faulty SB16 cards can be fixed with a soldered socket!
i got kind of lost on all the dumps with the DOS tool. What is is it that you are trying to achieve with those dumps?

SETBLASTER wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:43:

What is is it that you are trying to achieve with those dumps?

I guess, you know the famous phrase "You Don't Know What You Don't Know"... the rest of the answer I will leave to you.

mattw wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:40:

..silently updated to V4.16 via driver updates ..

Isnt the code inside the main chip hardcoded like a mask rom? Do you think it can be updated? That would be wild.

DerBaum wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:55:

mattw wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:40:

..silently updated to V4.16 via driver updates ..

Isnt the code inside the main chip hardcoded like a mask rom? Do you think it can be updated? That would be wild.

that's true for sure for the old cards that have discrete 8052 MCU chip, because those old chips very simplified are OTP (one-time-programmable), but when Creative integrated the MCU in the main IC, then at least I "don't know what I don't know" and what technology they used, especially when those Integrated main ICs were made several years ahead. So, for example more modern "Atmel 89S52" part that for example @S95Sedan already used as replacement for old discrete 8052 MCU chip on Creative card:

Re: The Soundblaster DSP project

are "In-System Programmable up to 10 000 times". So, if for example CT2511 has analog of "Atmel 89S52" integrated inside, then it can be reprogrammed in software.

SETBLASTER wrote on 2023-10-03, 15:43:

What is is it that you are trying to achieve with those dumps?

Ultimate goal is to crack and dump 4.16. It fixes single cycle dma bug, and I think it may work on older SB/AWEs.
Secondary goal - dump 4.12, just for completeness sake.
And it is fun to have such a tool, doing what was meant impossible.
PS. Dumps recently posted is for answering a question - is all 4.13 are same, or may be different for some reason.