KarlG wrote on 2023-10-26, 10:58:

n0p wrote on 2023-10-26, 06:27:

@KarlG, according to Sergey's post on VCFED forums: VGA won't init on 8088 CPU as it's BIOS uses 186 commands.
So if you inserted 8088 into V2 Book with VGA - that's the cause.
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/boo … 5/#post-1344999

Oh, interesting! I have a CGA board on the way anyway since that is what I initially wanted, so hopefully the issue will resolve itself when I install that. Thank you, and also thanks to others who have given suggestions.

Crazy stuff - VGA is very clearly too much really. It was suggested to Pengain that they look at EGA max options but apparently the VGA chips are cheap and plentiful. It feels like the boards are rather untested though.

My only VGA success has been PETSCII robots at 320x200x8 (thats 256 colours). Nothing else.

There are many questions, why was a true Proton 2010 chipset not used and why a turbo limited to 8mhz...

betamax80 wrote on 2023-10-26, 15:27:

Crazy stuff - VGA is very clearly too much really. It was suggested to Pengain that they look at EGA max options but apparently […]
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KarlG wrote on 2023-10-26, 10:58:

n0p wrote on 2023-10-26, 06:27:

@KarlG, according to Sergey's post on VCFED forums: VGA won't init on 8088 CPU as it's BIOS uses 186 commands.
So if you inserted 8088 into V2 Book with VGA - that's the cause.
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/boo … 5/#post-1344999

Oh, interesting! I have a CGA board on the way anyway since that is what I initially wanted, so hopefully the issue will resolve itself when I install that. Thank you, and also thanks to others who have given suggestions.

Crazy stuff - VGA is very clearly too much really. It was suggested to Pengain that they look at EGA max options but apparently the VGA chips are cheap and plentiful. It feels like the boards are rather untested though.

My only VGA success has been PETSCII robots at 320x200x8 (thats 256 colours). Nothing else.

There are many questions, why was a true Proton 2010 chipset not used and why a turbo limited to 8mhz...

That's simple, production price. Given it's TaoBao price of ~690 CNY, production price might be about$50. As for turbo - for example my old 8088 chip cannot handle that for more than 5 mins. I think they've chosen something safe.
And, as we discussed before, Tandy/EGA would much better choice. But they found a box of old VGA chips 😀

Now for worse news. I couldn't make PicoGUS run on Book8088. With 100nF capacitor fix it runs on Hand386, but not on Book8088. Though that might be fixed in V2.

n0p wrote on 2023-10-26, 17:38:

That's simple, production price. Given it's TaoBao price of ~690 CNY, production price might be about$50. As for turbo - for ex […]
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betamax80 wrote on 2023-10-26, 15:27:

Crazy stuff - VGA is very clearly too much really. It was suggested to Pengain that they look at EGA max options but apparently […]
Show full quote

KarlG wrote on 2023-10-26, 10:58:

Oh, interesting! I have a CGA board on the way anyway since that is what I initially wanted, so hopefully the issue will resolve itself when I install that. Thank you, and also thanks to others who have given suggestions.

Crazy stuff - VGA is very clearly too much really. It was suggested to Pengain that they look at EGA max options but apparently the VGA chips are cheap and plentiful. It feels like the boards are rather untested though.

My only VGA success has been PETSCII robots at 320x200x8 (thats 256 colours). Nothing else.

There are many questions, why was a true Proton 2010 chipset not used and why a turbo limited to 8mhz...

That's simple, production price. Given it's TaoBao price of ~690 CNY, production price might be about$50. As for turbo - for example my old 8088 chip cannot handle that for more than 5 mins. I think they've chosen something safe.
And, as we discussed before, Tandy/EGA would much better choice. But they found a box of old VGA chips 😀

Now for worse news. I couldn't make PicoGUS run on Book8088. With 100nF capacitor fix it runs on Hand386, but not on Book8088. Though that might be fixed in V2.

Production price... you are right, and they got lucky with a box of VGA CARDS I'd suggest (it seems that they literally transplant the BIOS and memory chips too - mine has 1mb?!?) I have seen an EGA MAX card on ebay about a year ago but they go for a fortune and admittedly would seem a shame to transplant the parts when you can buy VGA cards for £2. It's a shame though, I have seen elsewhere that if they had gone with the TVGA 9000i option, the EGA and Hercules compatibility is really good. Oh well.

I have a PicoGUS Femto on the way - I wonder if they have made little changes for it.... perhaps I was being optimistic because they don't like the 8088 anymore just the Hand386.... maybe they know something. Very excited for PicoMEM if they slam the 2 projects together.

I've had no joy with my WifiModem, I'm going to try plugging it directly but taking the port lugs off but its not looking good. I'm not sure what speeds the serial ports are actually rated at or whether their emulating 8237, 8237A or a 16x50 UART which is it's own issue. With FastLynx it's somewhere around 38400 and 57600 baud in practice - I've read elsewhere that the 8088 is a limiting factor again there.

GloriousCow wrote on 2023-09-11, 22:49:

The Book8088, even with an 8088 CPU, isn't quite 100% cycle-accurate to an IBM PC. Can we fix that? Well, yes we can!

https://martypc.blogspot.com/2023/09/hacking- … r-accuracy.html

Since i needed to fix my Book anyway, i've made this to my Book and it works 😀
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbypwpFnjkY

So now we have two working hacks:
CGA disconnect for Book V1 by Sergey https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/boo … -2#post-1334871
and
DMA refresh fix by GloriousCow

And i still think we can connect external display here (not my best job, but anyway)
Connectors are called BH2-10R (board side), IDC2-10 (cable side) - this will save you some time searching.

RGBtoHDMI adapter works 😀
Good: finally external monitor can be connected.
No so good: Composite emulation is not nice, but as that opensource project, the problem could be addressed 😀
There's some additional blanks after mode change, maybe some kind of calibration kicks in.
Bad: End effects of Area5150 are not emulated, but it does show some stuff where line shifts supposed to be, so that might be the problem in the Book CGA implementation.
Anyway, my first problem is solved. proof in video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcgZizeQVp0
Cable is using female DB9 to plug into RGBtoHDMI directly.
Pinout for CGA is taken from internet search, 10-pin connector is in Book8088 design pdf.
Worked from the start, it usually doesn't happen that way.

Edit: I'm too inattentive. RGBtoHDMI documentation states you need Zero 2W to use CGA artifacting and i've used simple Pi Zero. Glad those exist here.

Edit2: Some time ago i got PEGA 2A EGA card really cheap ($10). Now with RGBtoHDMI i could test it - first in Pentuim build ISA slot. Worked! Though RGBtoHDMI has some struggle syncing to it, but picture after sync was great - tested with Bad Street Brawler. Next, inserted it to ISA expansion and connected to Book8088, disabling CGA. No go, card not detected. BUT, if i enable CGA again, it starts to show some garbled, but recognisable picture. It's ports somehow not detected on ISA (i'm using crtc ports detection with cursor positioning in BIOS), but some interception happens. Given that PicoGUS also didn't work in my Book8088 - failing at control port IO, i suggest either my one has problem with ISA extender connector (extender itself works fine, i've used PicoGUS with Hand386 w/o problems, perfect), or V1 has some problems interfacing external devices - build-in ISA devices: CGA, CH375, Adlib, XT-IDE work fine.

Edit3: Added more photos

n0p wrote on 2023-10-26, 06:27:

@KarlG, according to Sergey's post on VCFED forums: VGA won't init on 8088 CPU as it's BIOS uses 186 commands.
So if you inserted 8088 into V2 Book with VGA - that's the cause.
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/boo … 5/#post-1344999

I just thought I'd follow up and confirm that swapping out the VGA card for the CGA card did indeed fix my problem, and I'm happy now with my downgraded Book 8088. 😀

KarlG wrote on 2023-11-12, 18:24:

n0p wrote on 2023-10-26, 06:27:

@KarlG, according to Sergey's post on VCFED forums: VGA won't init on 8088 CPU as it's BIOS uses 186 commands.
So if you inserted 8088 into V2 Book with VGA - that's the cause.
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/boo … 5/#post-1344999

I just thought I'd follow up and confirm that swapping out the VGA card for the CGA card did indeed fix my problem, and I'm happy now with my downgraded Book 8088. 😀

Good. 🙂 I don't see a problem here, also.
VGA and 80186/80286/NEC make a better team, anyway.
VGA code in games/applications made good use of 80186 instructions set.

Likewise, CGA and 8088 are making things wonderfully slow, graceful.
They make for a nice couple, as well.

Like a young pair and their grandparents attending same party, dancing simultaneously, on two opposite sides of the dance floor. Aww. 🤗

n0p wrote on 2023-08-24, 16:53:

Next, flashed Sergey Kiselev BIOS - https://github.com/skiselev/micro_8088 and made a CGA firmware with CP866 (that "CGA" eprom chip contains only character tables).
All good.
Unsoldered soviet-era 8088 clone chip from my old broken board - it worked in Book8088 😀 Made my day, really.

Hello, I’m also using KM1810VM88 in version 2 of Book8088 with stock CGA card in it (I also have VGA card, but according to the recent Sergey Kiselev’s post - looks like it won’t work with non-V20 CPU).

I’ve installed MS-DOS 4.01 Soviet Union edition (for the "authenticity" with this CPU, hehe), but of course - can’t see anything due to the problem with CP866. The OS is working: you can run things in soviet OS with soviet CPU, but you can only read numbers and English parts of the text on the screen…

It looks like you have found a way to resolve it? Have you flashed your version of CGA-bios (that is in your repo) and it worked or there’s anything else to configure?

Thanks,

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four')..
Poisk was a series of eastern PC compatibles.
That DOS should be on MS-DOS 2.11 or 3.x level.

Alternatively, there's the East German DCP in version 3.20/3.30.
The Disc Control Program uses latin characters/filenames, at least.
So if you got the German language version, you're not totally screwed.

That being said, learning cyrilic alphabet isn't that hard, either.
It's worth a try, if free time permits it.

PS: For really, really old school fun, AlphaDOS might be an option. It's non-English, though.
See https://pikabu.ru/story/pp_yevm_es_1841_6484535

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_PEVM

Edit: Picture attached.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-13, 00:37:

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four').. Poisk was a series of eastern PC compatibles. That […]
Show full quote

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four')..
Poisk was a series of eastern PC compatibles.
That DOS should be on MS-DOS 2.11 or 3.x level.

Alternatively, there's the East German DCP in version 3.20/3.30.
The Disc Control Program uses latin characters/filenames, at least.
So if you got the German language version, you're not totally screwed.

That being said, learning cyrilic alphabet isn't that hard, either.
It's worth a try, if free time permits it.

PS: For really, really old school fun, AlphaDOS might be an option. It's non-English, though.
See https://pikabu.ru/story/pp_yevm_es_1841_6484535

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_PEVM

Thanks!
I was considering trying those, but Book8088v2 has another CGA card and I probably won't be able to flash CGA-bios - so, I'm out of luck with CP866... 🙁

BTW: cyrillic alphabet is my native one, actually 😉

Errand wrote on 2023-11-13, 07:03:

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-13, 00:37:

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four').. Poisk was a series of eastern PC compatibles. That […]
Show full quote

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four')..
Poisk was a series of eastern PC compatibles.
That DOS should be on MS-DOS 2.11 or 3.x level.

Alternatively, there's the East German DCP in version 3.20/3.30.
The Disc Control Program uses latin characters/filenames, at least.
So if you got the German language version, you're not totally screwed.

That being said, learning cyrilic alphabet isn't that hard, either.
It's worth a try, if free time permits it.

PS: For really, really old school fun, AlphaDOS might be an option. It's non-English, though.
See https://pikabu.ru/story/pp_yevm_es_1841_6484535

Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_PEVM

Thanks!
I was considering trying those, but Book8088v2 has another CGA card and I probably won't be able to flash CGA-bios - so, I'm out of luck with CP866... 🙁

That's a socketed EEPROM chip there, that's good. It seems to be 64K (i might be wrong), that a bit of overkill, but anyway.
Make a dump of it first, next, create a file that will contain cp866.bin four times (i've no idea how exactly it addressed, but i doubt anything except card layout is really changed) and flash it. Should work, and you can always flash it back with original dump. https://github.com/jinshin/Book8088/
--
And i know what Poisk-1 is too good 😀 I salvaged chip from it's board.
Emulated CGA text mode, oh joy.
Can someone share original BIOS dumps for Poisk-1, my board somehow doesn't have those now 🙁

^ You're welcome. ^^
Pm sent.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-13, 00:37:

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four')..

Sorry, do you know how the startup PWM melody can be customised? 'Intel inside' melody seem to mismatch the soviet CPU, hehe 😀
Since there isn't any way to detect this CPU through BIOS (no technical difference from Intel, except more heat) - I'd try having a BIOS with changed melody, if this isn't too time consuming. I'd change 6 notes of 'Intel inside' to, for example, the first 6 notes of an USSR radio call theme (attached) - shouldn't be annoying, pretty much comfortable and I guess shouldn't stand a big deal to change few existing bytes...

Errand wrote on 2023-11-13, 14:25:

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-13, 00:37:

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four')..

Sorry, do you know how the startup PWM melody can be customised? 'Intel inside' melody seem to mismatch the soviet CPU, hehe 😀
Since there isn't any way to detect this CPU through BIOS (no technical difference from Intel, except more heat) - I'd try having a BIOS with changed melody, if this isn't too time consuming. I'd change 6 notes of 'Intel inside' to, for example, the first 6 notes of an USSR radio call theme (attached) - shouldn't be annoying, pretty much comfortable and I guess shouldn't stand a big deal to change few existing bytes...

n0p is your contact on the matter of the PWM melody - from what I saw of the source to his BIOS fork (Serhii 1.0.3) you numerically specify the notes and timings in one of the build files.

Since we're all more familiar with it now, I wondered if I could suggest we build a "compatibility list" of peripherals and software for the Book8088 as a google doc?

Errand wrote on 2023-11-13, 14:25:

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-13, 00:37:

^For authenticity, there's the DOS for the Poisk-1, SF-DOS ('Sigma Four')..

Sorry, do you know how the startup PWM melody can be customised? 'Intel inside' melody seem to mismatch the soviet CPU, hehe 😀
Since there isn't any way to detect this CPU through BIOS (no technical difference from Intel, except more heat) - I'd try having a BIOS with changed melody, if this isn't too time consuming. I'd change 6 notes of 'Intel inside' to, for example, the first 6 notes of an USSR radio call theme (attached) - shouldn't be annoying, pretty much comfortable and I guess shouldn't stand a big deal to change few existing bytes...

Yes, the boot melody can be customized 😀
Look at the https://github.com/skiselev/8088_bios/blob/ma … r/src/sound.inc

I am actually looking for an alternative melody. As you said, Intel tune is not the best match for soviet 8088 clone or NEC CPUs 😉
Any takers... simple cheerful boot sound, just a few notes long? 😀

By the way, I was looking for the way to distinguish between different 8088 varieties, e.g., different Intel 8088 steppings, 80C88 vs 8088, KR1810VM88, etc. I haven't found much. And whatever I found is already in the BIOS CPU detection routine. Any knowledge about such differences is appreciated. Currently the BIOS can detect:
- Original Intel 8088 with POP SS / MOV SS,reg bug - These usually have "Copyright (C) 1978" marking
- Harris/Intersil 80C88. Newer Intel 80C88 apparently use the same design
- NEC V20... pretty easy to detect
- Everything else goes into a generic "8088" category, that includes: Intel 8088 made in 1981 and later (Copyright '78 '81, or Copyright '78 '83). Third party 8088 CPUs (AMD, NEC, MHS, Fujitsu, OKI, KR1810VM88), OKI designed 80C88 chips, this also includes earlier Intel 80C88. Given that they use the same packaging as OKI and were made in Japan (Intel never had CPU production facilities in Japan), I assume they were manufactured by OKI for Intel

n0p wrote on 2023-11-13, 07:35:

Make a dump of it first, next, create a file that will contain cp866.bin four times (i've no idea how exactly it addressed, but i doubt anything except card layout is really changed) and flash it. Should work, and you can always flash it back with original dump. https://github.com/jinshin/Book8088/

I've just made a dump of the chip: sst39sf512.bin size is 65536 bytes.
Not sure I can share the file publicly and I'm not able to PM you yet, but the firmware hasn't a lot of empty at the end - the balance of emptiness at the end is appx the same as in your cga866.bin. I was hoping to find 32 kb of data and then lots of nothing, but it appears the chip really contain twice as more data.
Haven't noticed anything repeating, but can't say for sure. It will be definitely very helpful if you take a look at the file...
P.S. If you find it a good idea, please PM me with how can I contact you. Thanks.

SergeK wrote on 2023-11-14, 18:00:

I am actually looking for an alternative melody. As you said, Intel tune is not the best match for soviet 8088 clone or NEC CPUs 😉
Any takers... simple cheerful boot sound, just a few notes long? 😀

You may want to try the audio sample I've attached to that post - it's nice and cheerful. The same quantity of notes as in Sergey Kiselev's bios, just need to identify other frequencies, put the new ones and relocate the pause - that's it. Have no idea where to read the right relation with music tones...
BTW: this fragment is after Dmitry Shostakovich - classics never fail.

Errand wrote on 2023-11-14, 21:05:

SergeK wrote on 2023-11-14, 18:00:

I am actually looking for an alternative melody. As you said, Intel tune is not the best match for soviet 8088 clone or NEC CPUs 😉
Any takers... simple cheerful boot sound, just a few notes long? 😀

You may want to try the audio sample I've attached to that post - it's nice and cheerful. The same quantity of notes as in Sergey Kiselev's bios, just need to identify other frequencies, put the new ones and relocate the pause - that's it. Have no idea where to read the right relation with music tones...
BTW: this fragment is after Dmitry Shostakovich - classics never fail.

I am Sergey Kiselev, привiт! 😉

I listened to the sample, it is OK. I'll consider it as an alternative (maybe play it on V20? 😀)
I am also open to other options.

As far as sound.inc modification goes, the format is very simple. The "notes" table contains a list of 16-bit divider values for the PIT, -1 for "silent" pause, and 0 for the end of the table.
Note frequencies are described in multiple places, for example, here: https://pages.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
Of course being a simple square wave, there is no option to specify the "envelope", that is the entire sound is played with the same volume.
It is possible to make a custom routine, and use PWM technique, but that's more complicated, and also, the original purpose of playing that melody was testing basic system (CPU, ROM, and PIT) functionality.

As far as sst39sf512.bin from the CGA card goes, feel free to share it. It just a character generator ROM. Likely it was copied from the original IBM CGA card... It might be copyrighted, but that copyright certainly doesn't belong to the makers of Book8088

I’ve made some photos of v2 board while disassembling:

Looks like no more external display out.
What surprised me is the text underneath the video board: 'VGA-BK3-9000i'… Isn’t it what I’m thinking about?.. 😀