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DNF IS REAL!

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Reply 20 of 86, by Reckless

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Agreed, HL2 was indeed a shooter on rails. I really don't recall having to 'think' about what to do (unlike an adventure game where I'd piece info together to come up with some probable solutions). It was more a case of there was only ever one solution and it was as pre-planned, obvious and usually right in front of you. Overall. it was a good game but a little flawed (for me at least) in a number of areas.

There's too much bitchin' re 3DR with DNF just 'cause they've not managed to release it. Sure it's unheard of for a company to release info, trailers, etc. only to retract them and start over - 3+ times no less 😁 Unfortunately they did something similar with Prey so, as a production company, 3DR seem to have 'issues'. But then we buy games [not company shares] and if those games are 'good enough' does it matter how long it took to arrive? If, when the game is eventually released, it's below par (and no I don't mean graphically) then it's time to give them honest feedback.

Graphics do not make a good game but unfortunately the general populous (probably not many of the readers here it's safe to assume) only think a game is good when considering its graphical presentation. That's not to say that good graphics can make a good game great - it's a question of getting the basics right first. Prey didn't make enough of portals (or at least for me they shouldn't have been 95% scripted events) and was mostly too indistinguishable amongst other SciFi shooters.

I can only hope 3DR capture 99% of the humour, the interactivity and the 'roundness' of D3D. None of this is apparent from the teaser (unlike the 2001 trailer) so it's an unanswered line of questions for the time being (until a full trailer is done)!

Reply 21 of 86, by dh4rm4

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Sure Freddo...

Half Life 2 sold on the merit of the original Half Life which was the MOST groundbreaking and enduring FPS to ever hit the games market. While there's no doubt that CS and HL are intrinsically connected, it's utter crap to say that HL didn't earn its tenure in the FPS and PC game market on its own merits. It fucking well did and is still a popular game in many circles, not least of which is the modding community. I was around the STEAM forums prior to and during the HL2 release and a lot of HL fans didn't actually play CS - hell, many didn't even know about it. CS picked up its own fanbase who really came into their own once WON ended, despite grumblings and mutterings that still continue.

HL2's overlong development cycle as well it's flubbed original release date ensured that it wasn't as much of milestone as it should have been but frankly it led the industry in terms of shaders, proper use of alpha, applied physics gameplay, modding capability and AI - all of that stuff is available in the Source engine and it's all really scalable and scriptable. Garry's Mod demonstrated most of this straight off the bat and still continues to do so.

Reply 22 of 86, by ADDiCT

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I am no HL2 fanboy, but i enjoyed the game very much. I'd go so far to say that HL2 was one of the greatest gaming experiences i had on the PC, along with, for example, S.T.A.L.K.E.R. . The various awards HL2 won (look at the Wikipedia page), and the sales figures tell me i might not be the only person that enjoyed the game.

Anything HL has done, gameplaywise, had been done before with other games, such as System Shock (which was a milestone in FPS gameplay, but flopped horribly anyway).

HL2 is a FPS, of course. With that line of argumentation you could say that no FPS after, say, Catacomb 3D or Wolfenstein 3D did do anything that hadn't been done before. The keyword here is "evolution". System Shock is not a FPS, it's a 3D Adventure/RPG. Or would you say that, for example, Ultima Underworld is a FPS?

Prey didn't make enough of portals (or at least for me they shouldn't have been 95% scripted events) and was mostly too indistinguishable amongst other SciFi shooters.

Yeah, it's a pity that many of the good ideas in Prey were not used to their full extend. I still think it's funny and ridiculous that 3D Realms use the "No Reloads" thing as an USP for Prey. It's as if the marketing department was desperately looking for something to use as an USP. What's really funny is that there actually _are_ weapon reloads in the game.

Reply 23 of 86, by Freddo

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dh4rm4 wrote:

Half Life 2 sold on the merit of the original Half Life which was the MOST groundbreaking and enduring FPS to ever hit the games market.

Have you ever played any other FPS?

HL1 was certainly a very good game, and I played thru it happily several times 9 years ago. But the most groundbreaking? Please. But yeah, HL1 is a noticeably better game than HL2.

ADDiCT wrote:

The various awards HL2 won (look at the Wikipedia page), and the sales figures tell me i might not be the only person that enjoyed the game.

Right, and Britney Spears sold millions of records too, so she must be full of talent? Ok, bad comparison, since HL2 is a very polished game 😜 But still, sales and awards means nothing except there was a good marketing behind it.

ADDiCT wrote:

System Shock is not a FPS, it's a 3D Adventure/RPG.

How is System Shock not a FPS? It's in first person, and you shoot things. Only difference compared to most FPS games is that it's a shooter not on rails, or at least gives a very good illusion of it's not.

Or do FPS games have to be on a rail? And things like an inventory is something other FPS games have aswell, such as Duke Nukem 3D.

And talking about Wikipedia before, I just link to the System Shock page which includes the quote "is the progenitor of today's story-based action games, a group with titles as diverse as 'Metal Gear Solid,' 'Resident Evil,' and even 'Half-Life'."

VtM: Bloodlines is an RPG, with it's heavy usage of choices and consequences and skill system. Something the original System Shock doesn't have. You're just a hacker who tries to defeat SHODAN, and that's it.

Reply 24 of 86, by Dominus

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Evolution, histroy of the FPS http://gnomeslair.blogspot.com/2006/12/histor … -pictorial.html
There is a reason that both Ultima Underworld and System Shock are mentioned there. Yeah, by todays low standards you could never name UW a FPS but it had the main things common with FPS'. It was first person, you used weapons and you shot things. That much more was doable and asked of the player was waht set it apart and moved to the RPG corner. But at that time this could have influenced the way FPS are now. Sadly it didn't and FPS devolved to the boring mass it is today...
Hence the little hope for a real Duke Nukem that at least deliveres more fun in shooting, shooting, shooting...

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Reply 25 of 86, by avatar_58

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Freddo why are you insinuating that FPS/RPG hybrids are the only ones that "innovate"? System Shock is an amazing game but it's hardly a straight shooter. It's closer to a first person rpg, what with the exploration, in depth story and upgrades. System Shock 2 is even moreso.

I say the industry needs variety. Duke is not going to be anything more than a straight shooter, and those of us who don't expect every game to be like System Shock or Deus Ex thats fine.

We need more hybrids yes, but to go around claiming all action based shooters are stale and boring is just silly. Crysis and HL2 Episode 2 were amazing, they don't need stats or free form gameplay for that.

So seriously here - DNF is an action based shooter in the realm of Duke3D. Whats not to like?

Reply 26 of 86, by leileilol

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avatar_58 wrote:

Crysis and HL2 Episode 2 were amazing, they don't need stats or free form gameplay for that.

amazing movies may be, but hollywood-like tripe these days won't ever replace Tetris, Quake, or any no-frills action game to a real gamer who plays games and not bloatfluff "games". You may like to enjoy your ride experience but I like to enjoy my gameplay. HL2 and Crysis is lacking in that area.

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Reply 27 of 86, by general_vagueness

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I should have seen this coming.
I've been forgetting to look at this at home (I'm at school) and I'm impatient, is it the clip with him lifting weights, because if it is, it was on Attack of the Show and it seemed to me like a classic example of a teaser (which is what they're calling it): enough to put fans in that happy nostalgic spot and not enough to spoil anyone's expectations.
Like I said, I value story, even in FPSs, but I agree that there are many types of video games and they should all be given a chance. Honestly though, sometimes you just want to shoot things and have it backed up with visceral sound and pretty graphics, and sometimes you don't even care about that, that's when I go play Doom.
I personally don't want to have to keep track of stats, if I want to play a game with math in it, I'll go play sudoku
the fact is we don't have any idea what's going to be in it except for Duke Nukem, guns, and swearing, so we should all hold our proverbial horses until there's at least more information
so, you know, a few decades from now 😉

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Reply 28 of 86, by avatar_58

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leileilol wrote:

amazing movies may be, but hollywood-like tripe these days won't ever replace Tetris, Quake, or any no-frills action game to a real gamer who plays games and not bloatfluff "games". You may like to enjoy your ride experience but I like to enjoy my gameplay. HL2 and Crysis is lacking in that area.

People such as yourself make me laugh. Real gamer? So what am I, a freak? I enjoy old games as you can plainly see from my hundreds of posts here, and I also happen to enjoy modern day shooters and action games. You see I park my bias at the door and enjoy them for what they are.

Crysis a movie? You know what, obviously you haven't played it. There were some of the best FPS moments in gaming in here, with all sorts of dynamic fights...beyond the usual "bang your dead" of the old days.

Personally I don't let a game's age or nostalgia factor prevent me from playing it. I regularly play dos games over and over, alongside my new games such as The Witcher, HL2 Episode 2 and Crysis. I tend to be harsh on their flaws, however that doesn't mean I just outright boycott them as you seem to do.

Obviously I made a mistake in posting this thread, as many of you seem stuck in the past. Just so you know it's okay to enjoy old AND new games, you don't have to be prejudiced against them.

But what do I know eh? I'm apparently not a "real" gamer by your standards. I guess that large directory full of old dos games doesn't count. 😒

Reply 29 of 86, by ADDiCT

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Hehehe... I completely agree, avatar_58. It's sad that some people seem to be stuck in the past, and don't want to accept novelties. If all people were like that, we wouldn't have any advance in culture, and gaming is a part of today's culture. There are a lot of games that deserve attention, be it for the movie-like setting (don't forget that many games sell far more copies than hollywood "blockbusters" attract viewers), for genius ideas, or for good action. I wonder how old leileilol is, he/she (?) sounds like a 60 year old.

Reply 30 of 86, by general_vagueness

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It was the trailer I was thinking of, I saw it again here.
Seeing it again gave me a chance to get a better look at it, and those monsters look b4d4$$, people, and his animations look extremely fluid and natural. That being said, my main concerns are still getting to shoot things and having a good, preferably realistic (for video games) reason for shooting those things.
the "radioactive" symbols on his gloves were a nice touch too
that thing about the toilet though... 😖
still, seems to have at least some promise

How did I not notice that he looks kind of like Billy Idol?

You cannot fall off the floor.
If you look hard enough, you'll find something you don't like.

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Reply 31 of 86, by dh4rm4

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Freddo, your sole repeated opinion is that you see HL2 as a "very polished game" when , in fact, it was extremely unpolished, incomplete and some might say slightly broken on release.

(Have you ever played this FPS?)

It's genesis, however, spawned Source which (while not being such a highly commercially licensed engine) opened the floodgates to offer modding capabilities to the masses packaged in a reasonably easy to use interface, complete with docs and a developers forum. Sure it's not the only integrated 3D FPS engine around but it was the first that made extensive use of shaders and physics while being easily moddable and with a support infrastructure for the common lay person.

Reply 32 of 86, by avatar_58

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dh4rm4 wrote:

Freddo, your sole repeated opinion is that you see HL2 as a "very polished game" when , in fact, it was extremely unpolished, incomplete and some might say slightly broken on release.

(Have you ever played this FPS?)

I'm sorry? HL2 is one of the more polished shooters out there. Solid engine, works even on dated hardware and has all around tight gameplay. Valve also patches it on a regular basis, making sure all bugs are taken care of. The only issue that is outstanding is the audio stutter, but it's far from the only engine suffering from this.

Reply 33 of 86, by Dominus

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Wow, how does it happen that people are so hung up on FPS or on AntiFPS that you have to start insulting each other (not in a real bad way but still insulting). I don't get how you can be so fanatic...

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Reply 34 of 86, by leileilol

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dh4rm4 wrote:

It's genesis, however, spawned Source which (while not being such a highly commercially licensed engine) opened the floodgates to offer modding capabilities to the masses packaged in a reasonably easy to use interface, complete with docs and a developers forum.

yeah, horrible pipelines, strict steam folder system, long load times, tons of hacky hack hack hacks, requiring proprietary commercial microsoft compiler, and not a lot of docs. Have you seen UnrealEngine2/UT2k4 yet?

Dominus wrote:

Wow, how does it happen that people are so hung up on FPS or on AntiFPS that you have to start insulting each other (not in a real bad way but still insulting). I don't get how you can be so fanatic...

yeah and when did post count or engine pissing contests mean a thing anyway. I'm still betting on Duke Forever to be a solid game and not a "Halo game".

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Reply 35 of 86, by general_vagueness

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leileilol wrote:

I'm still betting on Duke Forever to be a solid game and not a "Halo game".

What the heck does that mean?

You cannot fall off the floor.
If you look hard enough, you'll find something you don't like.

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Reply 36 of 86, by dh4rm4

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It means that Lei thinks that his opinion to be of the highest order. He hates Halo and anyone who disagrees isn't as smart as he is.

Lei : I know Unreal Warfare 2.5 which is the engine you're discussing. However I also know its predecessors and they were more hack happy than UW 2.5 AKA UT2k4. UT2k3 was an EPIC PIECE OF CRAP for example. Epic weren't always that great at documentation either - their own internet hosted doscumentation wiki/site didn't come along until after the release of UT2k4. Have you never actually done much more than regurgitate others opnions?

Reply 37 of 86, by Reckless

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A game isn't an engine and neither is an engine a game. Both Epic & id have been making fairly mediocre games for some years but their engines are technically brilliant. I've not played a lot of Halo but what I did was fairly mind numbing - perhaps if you're a console player you're limited to comparisons against other XBox titles so maybe it was 'good' in that light?. Halo 3 looked like more of same but prettier. It clearly sells to its target market so there's no reason for MS to change the formula...

Of course 3DR could have completed the game by now if they'd have wanted to just make a sale but clearly they have internal objectives/aspirations to meet which prevent them from simply releasing an average (in their eyes) title. Sure when it comes down to it not all gamers will agree with their decision or indeed like/enjoy the result but then that's no different to the groups of people (fanboys if you will) who hate/love Doom3, UT2Kx, Halo, etc.

Reply 38 of 86, by avatar_58

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Having finished up Vampire Bloodlines recently I'm really glad 3DRealms is taking their time. This game was very good, but very much rushed towards the end and full of bugs (even with fan patches). At least when DNF arrives we can be sure that it's gone through some major polish.

Reply 39 of 86, by DosFreak

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You hope it has. Long development time doesn't necessarily mean that it will be polished.

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