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EPROM Programmer Help

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First post, by KLund1

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I have a large stash of a couple hundred 27xxx eproms
My T866CS or TL866 II Plus programmers can not read or program any of them.
Well, if I guess at some I can read something but am unsure if it is right.
I have a good UV eraser for them.
I think my programmers do not have enough voltage to program these older eproms. There are some with no windows and also not on the programmers lists.
I would like to be able to use these instead of having to buy "C" versions and wait a while to work on projects.
Here is my little inventory I did. Pls don't mind my bad spelling. But I might be wrong on the brands. If so pls correct me.

Can some of you smart people suggest a programmer that can handle these
Also I could use some education on the suffixes -2, -20, -200 I get as 200ns. But what do DC, A, P, DA, Q, AFI, JL, etc mean?
Thanks

2716
Number Brand
AM2716ADC AMD
AM2716DC AMD
B2716 Intel
D2716 Intel
D2716-1 Intel
MCM2716C Motorola
M2716 SGS Thomson Electronics
TMS2516JL TMS Texas Interments
TMS2516JL-35 TMS Texas Interments

2732
Number Brand
AM2732A-1DC AMD
AM2732A-3DC AMD
AM2732A-DC AMD
AM2732B-200DC AMD
AM2732DC AMD
MBM2732A-30 Fujitsu
HN462736G Hitachi
D2732A Intel
D2732A-2 Intel
D2732A-3 Intel
D2732A-4 Intel
M5L2732K Mitsubishi
NMC2732Q-1 National Simi
NMC2732Q-45 National Simi
D2732A NEC
D2732D NEC

2764
Number Brand Note
AM2764-2DC AMD
AM2764-3DC AMD
AM27644DC AMD
AM2764-4DC AMD
AM2764ADC AMD
MBM2764-25 Fujitsu
MBM2764-30 Fujitsu
HN482764G Hitachi
HY2764D Hyundai
D2746A Intel
D2746A-2 Intel
D2746A-2D Intel
D2746A-3 Intel
D2746A-3 Intel
M5L2764K Mitsubishi
M5M2764P Mitsubishi no window
2764-20 SEEQ Silicon Signature
2764-25 SEEQ Silicon Signature
2764-30 SEEQ Silicon Signature
DQ51R33-250 SEEQ Silicon Signature
M2764AFI SGS Thomson Electronics
2564JDL-45 TMS Texas Interments
2764-24JL TMS Texas Interments
2764JL-20 TMS Texas Interments
2764JL-25 TMS Texas Interments
TMM2464AP Toshiba no window
TMM2464D Toshiba

27128
Number Brand Note
AM27128A-2DC AMD
AM27128A-3DC AMD
AM27128DC AMD
MBM27128-20 Fujitsu
MBM27128-25 Fujitsu
MBM27128K Fujitsu
27C128-20 General Interments GI
HN4827128G-25 Hitachi
D27128A-2 Intel
D27128A25 Intel
D27128A-3 Intel
D27128A-4 Intel
M56M27128P Mitsubishi no window
M5L27128K Mitsubishi
NMC27C128Q 150 National Simi
NMC27C128Q 200 National Simi
D27128D NEC
27128-25 SEEQ Silicon Signature
M27128A-2FI SGS Thomson Electronics
M27128A-2FI ST Microelectronics
TMS27C128-1JL TMS Texas Interments
TMS27C128-25JL TMS Texas Interments
TMS27C128-2JL TMS Texas Interments
TMM24128Ap Toshiba no window
TMM27128-15 Toshiba
TMM27128-20 Toshiba
TMM27128DA-15 Toshiba
TMM27128DA-20 Toshiba

27256
Number Brand
TMM27256D-15 Toshiba

Reply 1 of 17, by Deunan

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KLund1 wrote on 2024-03-11, 05:06:

I have a large stash of a couple hundred 27xxx eproms
My T866CS or TL866 II Plus programmers can not read or program any of them.

Old EPROMs require high programming voltage, 25V or 21V. You'll need older programmer, not easy to find at reasonable price - and many are not supported anymore so you'll have to build a PC with specific OS (Win9x, maybe even DOS) to get them working. That's assuming you get the programmer and software for it, since just the HW might be useless if the manufacturer refuses to send you the software.

Alternatively some new "pro" series programmer, possibly with the required adapters for these parts, which will be anything but cheap. These days they ask 1k EUR for the base, then extra for adapters (and they make them in such a way that, to support multiple chips, you'll need a box of adapters). And there's the software costs, possibly some monthly payments, to add to that. Not really an option for private use.

KLund1 wrote on 2024-03-11, 05:06:

Also I could use some education on the suffixes -2, -20, -200 I get as 200ns. But what do DC, A, P, DA, Q, AFI, JL, etc mean?

Vendor-specific. Usually the letters are important for ordering parts - these will be different for the package type (these old EPROMs are probably all DIP but some might be plastic and some ceramic), temperature range and/or use case (commercial, industrial or automotive), possibly internal chip revision or even what factory made these (since the process differences can sometimes matter).
In general, for programming purposes, you don't care about these as long as the pinout and package type is correct. Except maybe two things:

- Letter A at the end (2732 and 2732A for example) usually means improved design, possibly lower voltage and shorter programming pulse is required. A programmer that supports only A chip in the family might not be able to program non-A variant, or the chip will not be reliable long-term (weak write). The other way around the lifespan of A chip programmed with non-A method might be shorter, or even damage might occur due to voltage being too high. Or it could end up with such a strong write that it'll become pretty much un-erasable via UV (the amount of UV needed to clear the cells will also cause permanent damage to the structure).

- Letter C between 27 and the size number denotes CMOS chip. Just like A it will be newer, faster variant with less power usage and probably lower programming voltage.

Reply 2 of 17, by bakemono

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Some of those chips are in the support list for the T56. Others may work using an equivalent part number, especially for reading. I see no reason why 27xx parts wouldn't be readable in most any programmer, even if there is an ID mismatch or whatever. When it comes to writing you can't always find enough info to know which parts are truly equivalent, so there is no guarantee in that case. Chips without a UV window are One-Time-Programmable and can't be erased if they've already been written.

GBAJAM 2024 submission on itch: https://90soft90.itch.io/wreckage

Reply 3 of 17, by KLund1

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Thanks for the reply
Most appreciated
But still looking for a burner that will work.
Also read. Guessing is not the best way to work with eproms, I would think

Reply 4 of 17, by majinga

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Here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-41 … 009/#msg3946009

For those that need to program 21v devices on the TL866II+, you can simply add a 10k resistor between pins 5 and ground (or pins 5 and 4) of U3 via a removable jumper . This is effectively changing the voltage divider of r8/r9 which sets the output voltage . This will give you an approx 3+ volt additional range and thus give you 21v when the programmer is set to 18v. Removing the jumper, returns the programmer to normal. This allows me to program old 2764D's (that use 21 volts vpp).

Edit: You can achieve 25v VPP (in addition to 21v) by using a 6.2K or 6.8K resistor instead. This gives a +7volt boost to the vpp voltage as viewed on the application.
For example to get 21v, you set the programmer vpp to 14volt (14 + 7=21), for 25v, you set the programmer to 18v (18+7=25)

Reply 5 of 17, by KLund1

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Thanks,
That is a little more involved than I would prefer.
Is there a unit I could just purchase to do that I am asking about?

Reply 6 of 17, by Zerthimon

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Check out Willem EPROM.

Reply 7 of 17, by KLund1

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WOW! Thanks for that!
Very cool unit.
But my Main rig does not have a printer/parallel port
Also not that simple to use. dip switches and voltages ?
I'd kill every eprom I have just to find the right settings. Or am I missing something. And the printer port is an issue.

Reply 8 of 17, by Zerthimon

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Yeah. It requires a native lpt port (a PCI card will not work). The software is for win9x - xp. The dip switches and voltage jumpers are simple - the software shows you the correct combination for each rom type.

Reply 9 of 17, by Horun

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XGecu T48 and T56 does : "Suppport high-voltage chips, VPP Maximum up to 25V, that is what TL866II cannot achieve."
Also for TL866II you can supply the needed DC level from batteries (or other well regulated/filtered source) to the VPP pin (you bend it up gently so not in socket), saw a good youtube about it....

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 10 of 17, by KLund1

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Cool !!
The T48 looks about right. I checked the parts link for that. It seems to cover almost all the chips above.

But there what seem to be prices all over the place. Most from Ali-Express. The $15.00 ones I would assume are fakes. The, what looks official, the LRF site, has it for $40, but charges $45 to ship to me on the west coast.
Where could I get REAL one for a reasonable price? Just the unit. I do not need all the accessories.
Thanks everyone for all the input !

Reply 12 of 17, by Deunan

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The original TL866 (A or CS, not the TL866 II Plus version) can do 21V without mods, but it's also considered old now and not supported anymore. And it has other limitations like 3.3V I/O so that some modern chips with 1.8V I/O need active adapters. Even the "old" TL866 can't do really old chips like bipolar PROMs for example but then again this is a very specific need that most people won't have.

This new XGecu T48 seems to resolve all these problems (up to 25V Vpp, 1.8V I/O, USB2 for faster operation on high-capacity chips) but I bet the software is still kinda wonky. If it works it works, but good luck if it doesn't. I still remember how TL866 drivers messed up all my virtual COM ports, in the end I had to get an old laptop to be a host for TL866 so that it doesn't pollute my work environment. I could try a VM and USB pass-through I suppose. But you can't argue with the price, if I was buying new EPROM programmer today I'd be looking at T48, or maybe T56 (although I don't do modern Flash chips).

Speaking of software from China... let's just say bugs and Engrish are not the only things to be worried about. For anything commerial I'd suggest a separate machine to host the programmer - just to be on the safe side.

Reply 13 of 17, by KLund1

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Thanks everyone.
Yes the software is odd. but it works with my two 866's. But I have to use a different version for each one.
I went to the link above and with one of those coupon finder extensions was able to get it for 43 shipped.
I'll report back after it arrives and after I test a few of these old chips.
Thanks again. All very much appreciated !

Reply 14 of 17, by kingcake

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There's a command line linux software package for the TL866II but I forget the name.

Reply 16 of 17, by weedeewee

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kingcake wrote on 2024-03-13, 04:51:

There's a command line linux software package for the TL866II but I forget the name.

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Reply 17 of 17, by hpxca

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I have a T48 that I bought from their AliExpress store and it's been excellent. Also tests parallel SRAM chips.