thx for clearing that out...remembered differently sorry.

midicollector wrote on 2024-03-29, 04:26:

Ah that’s too bad, how about ultima 9 or Arabian nights?

Ultima 9 has indeed been suggested before. It does use Glide, but I'm not familiar with that game, so maybe someone else can chime in with some extra info.

Arabian Nights is also another game that I haven't heard of before, but it apparently uses Glide, so it might be worth checking out.

I hope @MadMac_5 isn't seconds away from posting his results for Descent: FreeSpace after busting his ass to test it, because I went ahead and did it myself. Got curious and I haven't seen FreeSpace 1 without mods in 20+ years, also wanted to try the EAX patch it has.

- Tested with 3dfx Voodoo3 3000 with 1.07.00 drivers
- Game version latest 1.06 + EAX patch
- Very High preset plus Model Detail, 3D Hardware Textures and Particles set to maximum which very high preset leaves one notch down from max
- Screenshots taken with HyperSnap-DX 3.55 with post processing disabled

D3D Tech Room:

Glide Tech Room:

D3D in game:

Glide in game:

Not only Glide has more detailed textures but it also has better lighting, notice the dull even lighting and the dimmer ship lights on D3D in game screenshot compared to Glide. But turns out the game has registry entries that can be added in to improve D3D, for testing I have added D3DTextureDivider=1 and D3DUseLargeTextures=1 for the following picture.

D3D in game with registry edits:

Looks like I hit the attachments limit, I have a picture for the tech room too that more clearly show D3D with registry edits reaches parity with Glide in texture detail, but the lighting remains as dull as before.

Summary: Out of the box Descent: FreeSpace has superior textures and lighting in Glide compared to D3D. Possibly in other ways too, I found old forum posts complaining disappearing stars in D3D mode. Textures can be fixed by adding new registry entries if you happen to be aware of them (I've been a fan for 25 years and had no idea before MadMac_5 mentioned them here), but at least the entries I tried didn't improve lighting at all.

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-30, 13:11:

Summary: Out of the box Descent: FreeSpace has superior textures and lighting in Glide compared to D3D. Possibly in other ways too, I found old forum posts complaining disappearing stars in D3D mode. Textures can be fixed by adding new registry entries if you happen to be aware of them (I've been a fan for 25 years and had no idea before MadMac_5 mentioned them here), but at least the entries I tried didn't improve lighting at all.

Added, thanks!

Looks like yet another game has better lighting in Glide compared to D3D. The differences in texture detail are interesting, especially with regards to the D3D registry tweaks. But since we're comparing stock games with only the official patches applied, it qualifies for looking better in Glide mode.

I finally got around to capturing a sample image for Descent: Freespace from the Tech Room. Both were taken on my Creative 3D Blaster Voodoo 2 using D3D and Glide rendering, with all graphical settings verified at maximum. You can see that the textures on the nose and "nacelles" of the ship look worse in Direct3D, and that's because this game has an odd behaviour where under Direct3D the game downsamples the texture resolution considerably. This was probably done to support weaker D3D hardware (or that with immature drivers like the Rage Pro that I had) that was on the market at the time, but can be alleviated by adding the following lines to the game's registry entry. Documentation is available here, and the texture divider recommendations are available at an old Hard Light Productions forum post here.

I'll do some more work with Wing Commander: Prophecy when I can take the time to find a good showcase of the differences! If someone has one handy (especially if it's in the mission simulator) let me know.

MadMac_5 wrote on 2024-03-31, 04:08:

I finally got around to capturing a sample image for Descent: Freespace from the Tech Room.

Thanks! I've added a link to your post as well.

Interesting bit of info about the disappearing stars. And while it's good that you can (mostly) reach feature parity using the registry tweaks, the retail game + official patch clearly favors Glide.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-31, 04:42:

And while it's good that you can (mostly) reach feature parity using the registry tweaks, the retail game + official patch clearly favors Glide.

It does, you don't really notice the texture difference of fast moving smaller ships while playing and I couldn't really even tell any difference with the textures of the much larger Cruiser even though I was right next to it, but the D3D's worse lighting hits you like a wet sock. You really can't unsee it.

Tested FreeSpace 2 for good measure, no differences in texture quality and lighting between Glide an D3D that I could see. The only thing I could find was the tiniest difference on how a skull icon on the side of one fighter type had its eye sockets rendered, but the difference really is so tiny it's non-consequential.

Glide ran much better on that system though, seemed stable 60fps while D3D dropped frames like it was going out of style.

Sombrero wrote on 2024-03-31, 10:43:

Glide ran much better on that system though, seemed stable 60fps while D3D dropped frames like it was going out of style.

While not the subject of this thread, it's amusing how much better some games run in Glide mode compared to D3D.

Another example would be Diablo II, which was a stutter fest on contemporary D3D hardware (e.g. GeForce 2 GTS) while running silky smooth on a Voodoo 3 in Glide mode. Some players used Glide wrappers (such as this one) to play Diablo II until the official remaster came out.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-03-31, 11:02:

Another example would be Diablo II, which was a stutter fest on contemporary D3D hardware (e.g. GeForce 2 GTS) while running silky smooth on a Voodoo 3 in Glide mode. Some players used Glide wrappers (such as this one) to play Diablo II until the official remaster came out.

I also used to use svens wrapper for Diablo II but not to improve frame rate, but to get a clean upscale for 1080p screen before I got into older hardware. The games native 800x600 looked like crap on that screen, as did every other non native resolution.

And then I went and played it as a Barbarian few moths ago and realized just how incredibly annoying the game can be for melee characters, but that's besides the point of this topic 😁

Grand Theft Auto (the original) had a glide renderer mode which was visually superior to software or D3D modes.

username6031769 wrote on 2024-04-05, 17:40:

Grand Theft Auto (the original) had a glide renderer mode which was visually superior to software or D3D modes.

Yea but running 'gtafx' gives black screen to me. Im using voodoo3 3000 agp. Is there any patches to fix that

username6031769 wrote on 2024-04-05, 17:40:

Grand Theft Auto (the original) had a glide renderer mode which was visually superior to software or D3D modes.

Sounds good.

If anyone can set up a test case and provide comparison screenshots which showcase the differences, I will add it to the list.

There's no really 'superior' than just filtering and the obligatory glide gamma boost/filter. There's no additional blending effects. The art data is the same as GTA24 (which also implies by the very name, can do 24-bit color which the Voodoos can't). The framerate is capped and the gameplay runs at a fixed rate (amiga dev logic) and the software renderer is already quite fast so there's no purpose of its acceleration.

Also GTA wasn't D3D.

In case of GTA it's a matter of taste IMO. Up until recently I also liked the Glide-look the best but then learned about GTA's low color mode in which the street surface IMO looks more real than the ones of Glide & High-color mode. IDK though, if low color also limits resolution compared to the other two modes.
BTW also the software renderer has a framerate limiter which the user can decide to use or not to keep the gameplay at the indented speed.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-20, 10:42:

Games tested: […]
Show full quote

Games tested:

• Deus Ex GOTY - retail CD release (1.112fm)

Graphics cards tested:

• 3DFX Voodoo3 2000, using 3DFX reference drivers version 1.07.00 (Glide renderer)
• Nvidia GeForce FX 5900XT using Nvidia reference drivers version 45.23 (Direct3D renderer)

....

There are texture mods available for Deus Ex. With them, this game looks much better on modern graphics cards than with Glide.

Exploit wrote on 2024-07-05, 19:19:

There are texture mods available for Deus Ex. With them, this game looks much better on modern graphics cards than with Glide.

I don't dispute that, but in this thread we're talking about retail versions of the games + official patches only. Perhaps I should have made that a bit clearer in the original post.

That said, there are indeed many fan-made fixes and mods which can greatly improve the visuals of old games when they are played on modern systems.

Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island. Glide vs Direct3D, both 800x600 high detail. Screenshots made with Hypersnap.

"Vertigo peak", spinners and dinosaur are incorrectly clipped in Direct3D.

"Volcano mountain", mushroom, ramp and lightning effect in the background are incorrectly clipped in Direct3D. One could say that in Glide mode the lava well light source and colored light emanating from the green crystal in the background look better on nearby objects.

Translucency of green arrows can be ignored because it's a random animation effect and catching the exact same scene is nearly impossible.

Bruno128 wrote on 2024-07-07, 06:33:

Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island.

Added, thanks! 😀

Excellent analysis by the way! It's very easy to spot the differences on your screenshots.

Deus Ex 1.112fm. Glide vs Direct3D, both 1024x768x16 high detail. Some extra data to back this entry. Screenshots made with Hypersnap.

"Hong Kong MJ12 Lab", the floor reflection of commando in the background has slightly more detail in Glide mode.

"NYC Brooklyn Naval Shipyards", crane control panel screen is displayed incorrectly in Direct3D mode. One could also say metal texture filtering has less grain in Glide mode.