First, disable L2 cache (aka External Cache) in the BIOS. If you don't have that option, it may not be possible to reach the desired speeds. With L2 cache disabled in the BIOS, use SetMul as follows:

1SETMUL.EXE L1D BPD VPD

Your system should now be running slightly below the speed of a 386 DX-33. If that's still not slow enough, try loosening your memory timings in the BIOS. Phil explains this in more detail here.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-04-10, 14:42:

First, disable L2 cache (aka External Cache) in the BIOS. If you don't have that option, it may not be possible to reach the des […]
Show full quote

First, disable L2 cache (aka External Cache) in the BIOS. If you don't have that option, it may not be possible to reach the desired speeds. With L2 cache disabled in the BIOS, use SetMul as follows:

Copy code to clipboard

1SETMUL.EXE L1D BPD VPD

Your system should now be running slightly below the speed of a 386 DX-33. If that's still not slow enough, try loosening your memory timings in the BIOS. Phil explains this in more detail here.

Thank you for your reply! I do not have the option to disable the L2 cache. There is a slot with what I believe is a cache chip. I wonder if I should remove that. The bios options are quite limited with this particular board, unfortunately.

You know there is a Windows conversion for Wing Commander I to III? It solves the speed issues and allows for your joystick to work with it natively. It was released in 1996 as Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga

vetz wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:05:

You know there is a Windows conversion for Wing Commander I to III? It solves the speed issues and allows for your joystick to work with it natively. It was released in 1996 as Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga

I do have the KS, box and all. However, there are many problems with it such as missing graphics and what not. There is a fan patch to restore much of what is missing, but it requires DX 9 due to replacing the draw calls and I am keeping DX6 (maybe 7, maybe) on this for mostly Windows 95 era stuff.

At any rate, removing the physical cache and following the above directions in MS-DOS mode and using the earlier Sidewinder stick makes WC playable, and putting the cach back in, follwoing the above instructions and then using moslo makes it playable. I have a Pentium II 233 CPU on the way and I have an Asus P2B mobo, and I read that the p2 233 is unlocked, so I may experiment with that since I read that people are successfully running WC1 with these unlocked CPUs. I find it odd that with the popularity and cultural significance of Wing Commander that a frame limiter fan patch or some other solution never materialized.

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:21:

vetz wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:05:

You know there is a Windows conversion for Wing Commander I to III? It solves the speed issues and allows for your joystick to work with it natively. It was released in 1996 as Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga

I do have the KS, box and all. However, there are many problems with it such as missing graphics and what not. There is a fan patch to restore much of what is missing, but it requires DX 9 due to replacing the draw calls and I am keeping DX6 (maybe 7, maybe) on this for mostly Windows 95 era stuff.

At any rate, removing the physical cache and following the above directions in MS-DOS mode and using the earlier Sidewinder stick makes WC playable, and putting the cach back in, follwoing the above instructions and then using moslo makes it playable. I have a Pentium II 233 CPU on the way and I have an Asus P2B mobo, and I read that the p2 233 is unlocked, so I may experiment with that since I read that people are successfully running WC1 with these unlocked CPUs. I find it odd that with the popularity and cultural significance of Wing Commander that a frame limiter fan patch or some other solution never materialized.

In pentium 2 the important is the chipset of motherboard, not much the CPU, locked or unlocked is same

i dont have any 233 p2 no idea how much will slowdown without cache, my P3 1ghz without cache is similar to 386 SX33, my Mendocino 366 withou cache is like a fast 286... maybe the 233 will be too slow, i think better play with trottle

In my opinion pentium 1 are too limited to slowdown never have much success like with pentium 2+

but if you dont mind to use software solutions, try at-slow, i think version 4.00 is best, you can find like at-old, if you dont find pm and i will send to you

theelf wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:24:

In pentium 2 the important is the chipset of motherboard, not much the CPU, locked or unlocked is same […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:21:

vetz wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:05:

You know there is a Windows conversion for Wing Commander I to III? It solves the speed issues and allows for your joystick to work with it natively. It was released in 1996 as Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga

I do have the KS, box and all. However, there are many problems with it such as missing graphics and what not. There is a fan patch to restore much of what is missing, but it requires DX 9 due to replacing the draw calls and I am keeping DX6 (maybe 7, maybe) on this for mostly Windows 95 era stuff.

At any rate, removing the physical cache and following the above directions in MS-DOS mode and using the earlier Sidewinder stick makes WC playable, and putting the cach back in, follwoing the above instructions and then using moslo makes it playable. I have a Pentium II 233 CPU on the way and I have an Asus P2B mobo, and I read that the p2 233 is unlocked, so I may experiment with that since I read that people are successfully running WC1 with these unlocked CPUs. I find it odd that with the popularity and cultural significance of Wing Commander that a frame limiter fan patch or some other solution never materialized.

In pentium 2 the important is the chipset of motherboard, not much the CPU, locked or unlocked is same

i dont have any 233 p2 no idea how much will slowdown without cache, my P3 1ghz without cache is similar to 386 SX33, my Mendocino 366 withou cache is like a fast 286... maybe the 233 will be too slow, i think better play with trottle

In my opinion pentium 1 are too limited to slowdown never have much success like with pentium 2+

I remember being able to easily moslo my Pentium 90 back in 1995 for Wing Commander 1. I also beat it back in the mid-2000s with probably a moslo'd 486, but I can't remember for sure. I hope to get a Throttle Blaster, some day, since this might be the final solution to the speed problem.

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:31:

theelf wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:24:

In pentium 2 the important is the chipset of motherboard, not much the CPU, locked or unlocked is same […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:21:

I do have the KS, box and all. However, there are many problems with it such as missing graphics and what not. There is a fan patch to restore much of what is missing, but it requires DX 9 due to replacing the draw calls and I am keeping DX6 (maybe 7, maybe) on this for mostly Windows 95 era stuff.

At any rate, removing the physical cache and following the above directions in MS-DOS mode and using the earlier Sidewinder stick makes WC playable, and putting the cach back in, follwoing the above instructions and then using moslo makes it playable. I have a Pentium II 233 CPU on the way and I have an Asus P2B mobo, and I read that the p2 233 is unlocked, so I may experiment with that since I read that people are successfully running WC1 with these unlocked CPUs. I find it odd that with the popularity and cultural significance of Wing Commander that a frame limiter fan patch or some other solution never materialized.

In pentium 2 the important is the chipset of motherboard, not much the CPU, locked or unlocked is same

i dont have any 233 p2 no idea how much will slowdown without cache, my P3 1ghz without cache is similar to 386 SX33, my Mendocino 366 withou cache is like a fast 286... maybe the 233 will be too slow, i think better play with trottle

In my opinion pentium 1 are too limited to slowdown never have much success like with pentium 2+

I remember being able to easily moslo my Pentium 90 back in 1995 for Wing Commander 1. I also beat it back in the mid-2000s with probably a moslo'd 486, but I can't remember for sure. I hope to get a Throttle Blaster, some day, since this might be the final solution to the speed problem.

Software solutions work fine in a lot of cases, and back on time was almost only solutions, but we are in 2024 and are better options. But anyways, for software solutions in my case, at-slow is very good, try it

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:21:

vetz wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:05:

You know there is a Windows conversion for Wing Commander I to III? It solves the speed issues and allows for your joystick to work with it natively. It was released in 1996 as Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga

I do have the KS, box and all. However, there are many problems with it such as missing graphics and what not. There is a fan patch to restore much of what is missing, but it requires DX 9 due to replacing the draw calls and I am keeping DX6 (maybe 7, maybe) on this for mostly Windows 95 era stuff.

At any rate, removing the physical cache and following the above directions in MS-DOS mode and using the earlier Sidewinder stick makes WC playable, and putting the cach back in, follwoing the above instructions and then using moslo makes it playable. I have a Pentium II 233 CPU on the way and I have an Asus P2B mobo, and I read that the p2 233 is unlocked, so I may experiment with that since I read that people are successfully running WC1 with these unlocked CPUs. I find it odd that with the popularity and cultural significance of Wing Commander that a frame limiter fan patch or some other solution never materialized.

Ah, good you are aware of it and its pros and cons 😀

Regarding frame limiter, its not as easy as it appears without the source code. Youtuber Timberwolf have a great video on his efforts to try and make a framelimiter for Test Drive III, another notorious game from the same era with very narrow window of hardware configurations which produce the optimal framerate.
https://youtu.be/V0uyOea182s?si=fs1MyPZfA1FEdYKH

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 14:19:

Greetings! […]
Show full quote

Greetings!

I recently rebuilt a Pentium 166 MMX on what I believe is some form of Intel lt430tx motherboard. I would have preferred SS7, but the Intel was what was available to me. I have been trying to get WC1 at playable speeds under windows 98 Lite so that I can use a Sidewinder Precision Pro. I do have the previous joystick which works in DOS, so I will try that if this effort fails, and I have a couple of Gravis Phoenix sticks in the basement that I need to refurb (but they are unwieldly and weird and take up a lot of space.) I have downloaded a bunch of different slow down programs. I even bought moslo deluxe a while back and have buyer's remorse because it isn't working for me. I thought about moslo 4biz but after moslo deluxe, I don't want to waste the money. I have tried Bret Johnson's slowdown, myslow, setmul, etc. I cannot find the sweet spot for any of these apps for slowing down WC1. If I turn off the sytem cache in the bios, the into plays properly but the space sim aspects are like low end 286 speeds. Using setmul to turn off every compatible option does nothing for WC1 on this system. All of these options affect the game differently: into and cutscenes slow but gameplay is too fast, or vice-versa. My goal is to get the game running properly and play through the I, II, and the expansion packs with the same character.

If anyone plays or has played WC1 on a Pentium 166 MMX in a proper state, can you please share with me how you did that?

Many thanks!
Scythifuge

Not directly answering a question, but I played Wing Commander 1 on my first PC. It was a i486DX-33. Maybe not the best performing mainboard, but ok. Wing Commander 1 ran fine on it!
After an upgrade to a DX2-66 2 or 3 years later, it was unplayable, because it was too fast. But 486 @ 33MHz was good. So you don't need to go down to a speed of a 386SX, haha.

theelf wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:35:

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:31:

theelf wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:24:

In pentium 2 the important is the chipset of motherboard, not much the CPU, locked or unlocked is same

i dont have any 233 p2 no idea how much will slowdown without cache, my P3 1ghz without cache is similar to 386 SX33, my Mendocino 366 withou cache is like a fast 286... maybe the 233 will be too slow, i think better play with trottle

In my opinion pentium 1 are too limited to slowdown never have much success like with pentium 2+

I remember being able to easily moslo my Pentium 90 back in 1995 for Wing Commander 1. I also beat it back in the mid-2000s with probably a moslo'd 486, but I can't remember for sure. I hope to get a Throttle Blaster, some day, since this might be the final solution to the speed problem.

Software solutions work fine in a lot of cases, and back on time was almost only solutions, but we are in 2024 and are better options. But anyways, for software solutions in my case, at-slow is very good, try it

I just downloaded AT-Sloe and will give it a try. Thanks!

vetz wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:37:

Ah, good you are aware of it and its pros and cons :) […]
Show full quote

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:21:

vetz wrote on 2024-04-10, 15:05:

You know there is a Windows conversion for Wing Commander I to III? It solves the speed issues and allows for your joystick to work with it natively. It was released in 1996 as Wing Commander Kilrathi Saga

I do have the KS, box and all. However, there are many problems with it such as missing graphics and what not. There is a fan patch to restore much of what is missing, but it requires DX 9 due to replacing the draw calls and I am keeping DX6 (maybe 7, maybe) on this for mostly Windows 95 era stuff.

At any rate, removing the physical cache and following the above directions in MS-DOS mode and using the earlier Sidewinder stick makes WC playable, and putting the cach back in, follwoing the above instructions and then using moslo makes it playable. I have a Pentium II 233 CPU on the way and I have an Asus P2B mobo, and I read that the p2 233 is unlocked, so I may experiment with that since I read that people are successfully running WC1 with these unlocked CPUs. I find it odd that with the popularity and cultural significance of Wing Commander that a frame limiter fan patch or some other solution never materialized.

Ah, good you are aware of it and its pros and cons 😀

Regarding frame limiter, its not as easy as it appears without the source code. Youtuber Timberwolf have a great video on his efforts to try and make a framelimiter for Test Drive III, another notorious game from the same era with very narrow window of hardware configurations which produce the optimal framerate.
https://youtu.be/V0uyOea182s?si=fs1MyPZfA1FEdYKH

Origin probably chucked or lost the source code like they did with the Ultima 7 engine. They used to be my favorite company when I was a kid/teen, but as an adult looking back, they did a lot of very stupid things. Also, Garriott and Roberts were not worthy of my adolescent hero worship, 🤣.

CoffeeOne wrote on 2024-04-10, 18:36:

Scythifuge wrote on 2024-04-10, 14:19:

Greetings! […]
Show full quote

Greetings!

I recently rebuilt a Pentium 166 MMX on what I believe is some form of Intel lt430tx motherboard. I would have preferred SS7, but the Intel was what was available to me. I have been trying to get WC1 at playable speeds under windows 98 Lite so that I can use a Sidewinder Precision Pro. I do have the previous joystick which works in DOS, so I will try that if this effort fails, and I have a couple of Gravis Phoenix sticks in the basement that I need to refurb (but they are unwieldly and weird and take up a lot of space.) I have downloaded a bunch of different slow down programs. I even bought moslo deluxe a while back and have buyer's remorse because it isn't working for me. I thought about moslo 4biz but after moslo deluxe, I don't want to waste the money. I have tried Bret Johnson's slowdown, myslow, setmul, etc. I cannot find the sweet spot for any of these apps for slowing down WC1. If I turn off the sytem cache in the bios, the into plays properly but the space sim aspects are like low end 286 speeds. Using setmul to turn off every compatible option does nothing for WC1 on this system. All of these options affect the game differently: into and cutscenes slow but gameplay is too fast, or vice-versa. My goal is to get the game running properly and play through the I, II, and the expansion packs with the same character.

If anyone plays or has played WC1 on a Pentium 166 MMX in a proper state, can you please share with me how you did that?

Many thanks!
Scythifuge

Not directly answering a question, but I played Wing Commander 1 on my first PC. It was a i486DX-33. Maybe not the best performing mainboard, but ok. Wing Commander 1 ran fine on it!
After an upgrade to a DX2-66 2 or 3 years later, it was unplayable, because it was too fast. But 486 @ 33MHz was good. So you don't need to go down to a speed of a 386SX, haha.

My first PC was a 486SX-33 and I got the Deluxe editions of Wing Commander I & II for Christmas the same year and I remember that they both ran perfectly. We later upgraded to a DX2-66 and I had to call Origin over the speed issues and they had me download moslo from a BBS.