VOGONS


Reply 22 of 36, by Spikey

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florian3 wrote on 2024-03-19, 19:42:

Thanks for uploading this. Unfortunately, it looks like the drum channel is absent. There's no program change sends in this file, weirdly.. maybe that's the culprit.

Try with this QS edited file, which is identical to the original with one drum program change inserted at the start.
If that doesn't work (or causes it to become melodic), we'll try something else.
(EDIT: removed, see post below)

Last edited by Spikey on 2024-04-07, 06:25. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 23 of 36, by Spikey

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Well, noticing that KQ6 didn't have this issue, I found the difference, the SQ5GM lacks a Bank Select MSB (cc#0) message.
Inserted into SQ5 that's attached. I only put one at the start of the soundtrack, I'll edit further if this only fixes the Sierra Fanfare at the start.

If you can rerecord, it would be appreciated!

Also, if you can upload lossless in FLAC/WAV it would also be appreciated. KQ6 suffered from heavy noise which I was able to fix, but it would be better if I treated a lossless version and then reuploaded.

Attachments

  • Filename
    SQ5GMfix.zip
    File size
    248.35 KiB
    Downloads
    18 downloads
    File license
    Public domain

Reply 24 of 36, by RetroGamer4Ever

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midicollector wrote on 2024-03-29, 05:15:

I’ve been debating getting a proteus, how does the turtle beach multi sound classic sound compare to a real proteus 1xr? Any audio samples of the two?

All things being equal, they should sound roughly the same, given that the same hardware and samples/patches are used between the two of them and they can use the same "additional sounds", if you wanted. That being said, you'd have to find two (roughly) identically configured pieces of hardware and judge for yourself and neither one is going to sound all that great without the added banks to really show you what they can do.

Reply 25 of 36, by Spikey

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midicollector wrote on 2024-03-29, 05:15:

I’ve been debating getting a proteus, how does the turtle beach multi sound classic sound compare to a real proteus 1xr? Any audio samples of the two?

From this forum elsewhere:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR7a2wTd8W0&a … el=RetroAuction
From SynthMania:
https://www.synthmania.com/proteus_1.htm

Sounds pretty good. The MultiSound is basically a pre-GM device (Proteus) combined with a GM synth (TB's ?) that when used for GM (see video) is comparable to a SC-55/88 (and all the imitators). Of course, playing games won't be quite as good as tailoring MIDI files by hand for the Proteus or MultiSound, as with any high-end synth reduced to GM playback.

I'm not sure how it becomes GM compatible however, since the Proteus 1/XR has only about half of GM covered while not having any sounds for the other half (and no sound effects, not many synth sounds etc). Presumably there's other samples used in tandem with the Proteus's to make up the difference, no idea what they might be, though!
Tried finding a manual, but nothing doing. So no idea how it works. Worth pointing out that you can't use a regular Proteus 1/XR hardware synth with games at all, though (well, you could, but it wouldn't be GM 😜 ).

Reply 26 of 36, by BloodyCactus

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what you want is the emu sound engine, it does GM but useses the proteus sample set (it has a proteus1 mode underneath that you can turn on which puts it into the ignore drum channel mode basically).

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--

Reply 27 of 36, by Schule04

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Spikey wrote on 2024-04-08, 06:06:

The MultiSound is basically a pre-GM device (Proteus) combined with a GM synth (TB's ?) that when used for GM (see video) is comparable to a SC-55/88 (and all the imitators).

Not quite, in terms of MIDI the Multisound Classic really is nothing more than a Proteus 1/XR with a custom GM sysex loaded. You can load the same map on a Proteus 1/XR and some later modules, and you can load the factory 1/XR sysex onto the Multisound. Most of the special effects don't sound good because other samples are misused for them but the usual instruments seem to be mostly there.
The later Multisounds are unrelated to the Proteus.

Reply 28 of 36, by Spikey

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Schule04 wrote on 2024-04-08, 17:05:
Spikey wrote on 2024-04-08, 06:06:

The MultiSound is basically a pre-GM device (Proteus) combined with a GM synth (TB's ?) that when used for GM (see video) is comparable to a SC-55/88 (and all the imitators).

Not quite, in terms of MIDI the Multisound Classic really is nothing more than a Proteus 1/XR with a custom GM sysex loaded. You can load the same map on a Proteus 1/XR and some later modules, and you can load the factory 1/XR sysex onto the Multisound. Most of the special effects don't sound good because other samples are misused for them but the usual instruments seem to be mostly there.
The later Multisounds are unrelated to the Proteus.

So I guess about half the GM instruments will be messed up, then? That means it's not a particularly good or useful device besides those wanting a Proteus on an old DOS machine..

Reply 29 of 36, by RetroGamer4Ever

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Spikey wrote on 2024-04-10, 06:31:
Schule04 wrote on 2024-04-08, 17:05:
Spikey wrote on 2024-04-08, 06:06:

The MultiSound is basically a pre-GM device (Proteus) combined with a GM synth (TB's ?) that when used for GM (see video) is comparable to a SC-55/88 (and all the imitators).

Not quite, in terms of MIDI the Multisound Classic really is nothing more than a Proteus 1/XR with a custom GM sysex loaded. You can load the same map on a Proteus 1/XR and some later modules, and you can load the factory 1/XR sysex onto the Multisound. Most of the special effects don't sound good because other samples are misused for them but the usual instruments seem to be mostly there.
The later Multisounds are unrelated to the Proteus.

So I guess about half the GM instruments will be messed up, then? That means it's not a particularly good or useful device besides those wanting a Proteus on an old DOS machine..

Sound Effects, not instruments. Instruments you can pretty much always count on with GM, though there are some flubs between the low-quality sample sets here and there, but it's the sound effects on early and cheapo hardware that often misses the mark, by an inch or a mile.

Reply 30 of 36, by florian3

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Spikey wrote on 2024-04-07, 06:24:
Well, noticing that KQ6 didn't have this issue, I found the difference, the SQ5GM lacks a Bank Select MSB (cc#0) message. Insert […]
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Well, noticing that KQ6 didn't have this issue, I found the difference, the SQ5GM lacks a Bank Select MSB (cc#0) message.
Inserted into SQ5 that's attached. I only put one at the start of the soundtrack, I'll edit further if this only fixes the Sierra Fanfare at the start.

If you can rerecord, it would be appreciated!

Also, if you can upload lossless in FLAC/WAV it would also be appreciated. KQ6 suffered from heavy noise which I was able to fix, but it would be better if I treated a lossless version and then reuploaded.

Rerecorded SQ5 with the new MIDI file. Not sure if missing drums was caused by the MIDI file of a config issue on the Ultraproteus.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hjev7l0t1remvt … 6dsvggiph9&dl=0

Reply 31 of 36, by Spikey

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Sound Effects, not instruments. Instruments you can pretty much always count on with GM, though there are some flubs between the low-quality sample sets here and there, but it's the sound effects on early and cheapo hardware that often misses the mark, by an inch or a mile.

Not just SFX! The point you seem to be missing is that the Proteus 1/XR is NOT a GM device (under the assumption that the Multisound is actually just the 4MB 1/XR, which I doubt, see below).
If you look at the "Instrument" list, which is what the 1/XR calls waveforms, you'll notice about half of the GM instruments are not catered for.
As an example, the 8 patches from "Chromatic Percussion" are only represented by four waveforms, Mallet 1, Mallet 2, Marimba and Vibraphone (can't do Tubular Bell, Music Box, Glockenspiel at least).
In "Woodwinds", there's various saxophones but no Reeds like Clarinet, Bassoon, Oboe, English Horn. God knows how they actually make the patches work!
Basically, only Piano, Guitar, Bass, Brass, Synth Lead, Synth Pad and Synth FX are comprehensively catered for, which only represent 7 sections of the 16 in General MIDI.

My current assumption is that about half the GM patches are "fudged" and so this card will give unpredictable and unbalanced results, depending on whether the patch is based on a proper waveform (e.g,"Trumpet" from a "Trumpet") or "fudged" off of another (making a "Clarinet" from a non-Clarinet waveform). Funk/jazz genres will work well, Orchestral will work very poorly (on average). And drums dy default will NOT be General MIDI compatible.. because this is NOT a GM device.
One of those things that would have been exceedingly cool in 1991, but pretty damn useless now, IMHO.

https://www.emumania.net/emu-proteus-1-xr-sound-module/

Wish I could find documentation for the card, but there doesn't seem to be anything out there..

Reply 32 of 36, by Spikey

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@Florian, still would love it if you could upload SQ5 and KQ6 in lossless so I can remove the noise.

The error appears to have been in the QuestStudios MIDI file, although it's related to the UltraProteus not being a GM device and channel 10 is therefore not reserved for drums automatically, I believe.

Reply 33 of 36, by florian3

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Spikey wrote on 2024-04-14, 09:46:

@Florian, still would love it if you could upload SQ5 and KQ6 in lossless so I can remove the noise.

I don’t have a lossless version, would need to record it again.

Reply 34 of 36, by BloodyCactus

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Spikey wrote on 2024-04-14, 09:29:

If you look at the "Instrument" list, which is what the 1/XR calls waveforms, you'll notice about half of the GM instruments are not catered for.

dont look at the instrument (wav list), they dont get used them that way (you cant play them directly like that), you have to look at presets, thats the only thing you can trigger.

--/\-[ Stu : Bloody Cactus :: [ https://bloodycactus.com :: http://kråketær.com ]-/\--

Reply 35 of 36, by Spikey

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BloodyCactus wrote on 2024-04-14, 14:05:
Spikey wrote on 2024-04-14, 09:29:

If you look at the "Instrument" list, which is what the 1/XR calls waveforms, you'll notice about half of the GM instruments are not catered for.

dont look at the instrument (wav list), they dont get used them that way (you cant play them directly like that), you have to look at presets, thats the only thing you can trigger.

Correct - but patches can only use those waveforms!
While some of the missing GM instruments are indeed in the patches, the bottom line is that about half the GM patches (all patches being taken from the 384 onboard presets) don't use waveforms that represent that patch, and likely won't sound very good at all.

Reply 36 of 36, by Spikey

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florian3 wrote on 2024-04-14, 12:13:
Spikey wrote on 2024-04-14, 09:46:

@Florian, still would love it if you could upload SQ5 and KQ6 in lossless so I can remove the noise.

I don’t have a lossless version, would need to record it again.

If you can, that would be appreciated. 😀