VOGONS


First post, by johnvosh

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Good day. I am wanting to recap a couple of my motherboards that have caps that have leaked their guts out the tops. One is a MSI K8N Neo2 (MS-7025 Ver:1) which is a socket 939 with AGP and the other is a Gigabyte GA-8IDX P4 Titan socket 478 with SD-RAM, this one was in a system that was only used for 3 years. I do also have a Dell XPS 630i that has some burnt out surface mount LED's that have burnt out and I would like to replace them.

I have never done soldering on a motherboard before. I do have a dead one that I can use to practice on. I need some recommendations on what I should buy, something that isn't going to break the bank. I am in Canada and found DigiKey looks to be a good place to buy stuff from. I would guess I will need a soldering iron, desolder braid, flux, solder. I am guessing for the LED replacements I would need a hot air machine or something and then to try and find the RGB LED's. I'd also like to find a good tester so that I can test caps as well.

What are good brands of Caps these days? I would need 105c Caps, 6.3V @ 1800uf (x8), 16V @ 1500uf (x4), 6.3V @ 3300uf (x3).

Thanks in advance

Reply 1 of 11, by mockingbird

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On these relatively newer (read: post 2003/4) motherboards you will need the hot air to first heat the VRM area from the back of the board because the large copper plane will suck up the heat from the iron. I suggest you perfect your method of removing/inserting capacitors before attempting this on the boards, otherwise you might rip out pads and vias.

For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations will have the hot air circulation fan in the station itself, whereas the more inexpensive ones have the fan inside the piece that you hold when blowing the hot air.

For capacitors, you will need to mention the diameter as well. For capacitors near the VRM, you will need ultra-low ESR parts. Unfortnately, these are not manufactured anymore. Fortunately, you can use polymer capacitors instead, but you would be halving the capacitance values because polymer capacitors make up for this with their very low ESR and high ripple suppression ratings (note: this is only appropriate for this circumstance and the principle isn't universal).

For the rest of the board, any good quality low-ESR high endurance part will do.

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Reply 2 of 11, by dominusprog

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Buy a good 20-30W soldering iron like TNI-U TU-730B, a high quality 0.5mm solder wire, a good quality solder sucker and a desoldering wick for cleaning. Also you'll need a flux for soldering new caps.

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Reply 3 of 11, by johnvosh

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mockingbird wrote on 2024-05-29, 14:06:
On these relatively newer (read: post 2003/4) motherboards you will need the hot air to first heat the VRM area from the back of […]
Show full quote

On these relatively newer (read: post 2003/4) motherboards you will need the hot air to first heat the VRM area from the back of the board because the large copper plane will suck up the heat from the iron. I suggest you perfect your method of removing/inserting capacitors before attempting this on the boards, otherwise you might rip out pads and vias.

For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations will have the hot air circulation fan in the station itself, whereas the more inexpensive ones have the fan inside the piece that you hold when blowing the hot air.

For capacitors, you will need to mention the diameter as well. For capacitors near the VRM, you will need ultra-low ESR parts. Unfortnately, these are not manufactured anymore. Fortunately, you can use polymer capacitors instead, but you would be halving the capacitance values because polymer capacitors make up for this with their very low ESR and high ripple suppression ratings (note: this is only appropriate for this circumstance and the principle isn't universal).

For the rest of the board, any good quality low-ESR high endurance part will do.

Here are a couple pics of the caps in question. On the 939 board, I'd be replacing the big brown ones and the black ones along the socket. On the P4 board it is the ones by the socket.

I was looking and found https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/sra … AO888A/10709792. Would this be an okay one?

Reply 4 of 11, by mockingbird

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johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-30, 12:42:
For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations wil […]
Show full quote

For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations will have the hot air circulation fan in the station itself, whereas the more inexpensive ones have the fan inside the piece that you hold when blowing the hot air.
...
Here are a couple pics of the caps in question. On the 939 board, I'd be replacing the big brown ones and the black ones along the socket. On the P4 board it is the ones by the socket.
...
I was looking and found https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/sra … AO888A/10709792. Would this be an okay one?

Yes, that's perfectly adequate. Good work.

For the large brown caps on the 939 board, you can get these. For the skinny black ones, get these. Don't worry about the voltage differential. 2.5v caps on the VRM low are perfectly acceptable for 939.

For the P4 board, I couldn't make out what caps you got there.

Good luck.

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Reply 5 of 11, by johnvosh

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mockingbird wrote on 2024-05-30, 14:07:
Yes, that's perfectly adequate. Good work. […]
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johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-30, 12:42:
For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations wil […]
Show full quote

For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations will have the hot air circulation fan in the station itself, whereas the more inexpensive ones have the fan inside the piece that you hold when blowing the hot air.
...
Here are a couple pics of the caps in question. On the 939 board, I'd be replacing the big brown ones and the black ones along the socket. On the P4 board it is the ones by the socket.
...
I was looking and found https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/sra … AO888A/10709792. Would this be an okay one?

Yes, that's perfectly adequate. Good work.

For the large brown caps on the 939 board, you can get these. For the skinny black ones, get these. Don't worry about the voltage differential. 2.5v caps on the VRM low are perfectly acceptable for 939.

For the P4 board, I couldn't make out what caps you got there.

Good luck.

The P4 board bad caps are marked, 6.3v 3300uf. And of course they are in the hottest airflow from the heatsink

Reply 6 of 11, by mockingbird

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johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-30, 15:11:

The P4 board bad caps are marked, 6.3v 3300uf. And of course they are in the hottest airflow from the heatsink

Use these. If the VRM high caps (to the right of the socket at the edge of the board are green with a "K" shaped vent, then leave them. If they're "OST" brand but look ok, they should be replaced (OST caps often fail without signs).

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Reply 7 of 11, by momaka

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When it comes to soldering stations and soldering, here's a few tips I have from training people over the years.

- Skip the desoldering braid and/or desoldering bulbs and irons. These are OK for removing components on single-layer boards or dual-layer boards with not very thick traces. But PC motherboards aren't like that. As such, these tools aren't very good for use on PC motherboards (particularly for novice people), since the thick layers of copper and large vias on the board tend to suck up a lot of the heat, making it nearly impossible or very hard to remove solder from any hole or via... and thus very hard to remove the component itself - at least for a novice user and with an average soldering iron. Therefore, my advice is to skip these and use the "rock" / "walk" method instead. That is, heat one leg of the 2-legged component (capacitor) and tilt the capacitor body towards the opposite side of the one whose leg you're heating with the iron. Now do this for the other leg / side of the capacitor. Then repeat the whole process again. A few iterations of this should free up the capacitor. Afterwards, use a pin, sewing needle, or cork board tack to clear the holes where the capacitor was. To do that, heat one hole with the soldering iron and push the solder out of the hole from the other side with the pin/needle/tack. Repeat for the other hole. You don't need to clear the holes completely, though it does help if you do (if you don't, then you might have to pre-cut the capacitor leads of the new capacitors to make it easier to solder them in.)

- For soldering stations, I would say to AVOID anything with 900M type tips - that is, irons where you put/change tips on top of the heating element. Even the "better" 900M irons can still have rather poor tolerances and thus poor heat transfer. Unless you get a genuine Hakko, I would highly suggest you skip these. ... at least that's how these were many years back. Not sure if the newer Chinese ones have improved upon that (they might have). But to be on the safe side, I caution against these. Instead, go for a soldering iron that uses "T12" type of tips. These are the type of tips that have a heating element integrated in the tip itself, so they have much better heat transfer and can deal much better with the thick layers of a PC motherboard. Of course, it also helps if the T12 station itself is powerful enough, too (50 Watts or more would be good.) Compared to 900M style tips, T12 is classes above it. I use my 75W T12 station with a helper iron to regularly remove SMD MOSFETs from motherboards, and I can do it in just a few seconds - overall, even quicker than with hot air, and without any danger of overheating anything else around. In contrast, even the thicker/bigger 900M tips will struggle with attempting such procedure.

And that's really about it.

mockingbird pointed out some good polymer caps that should work for the brown and black United Chemicon KZG and KZJ series.
I also see what looks like OST RLX series on the MSI motherboard (the dark blue caps with gold print.) These aren't that bad... but if you want to "bulletproof" the board a bit more, consider changing these as well. Something like Panasonic FR, FS, and FM series should be good enough as replacements... or from Rubycon, ZL and ZLH series (and IIRC, ZLK series.) I don't exactly remember the Nichicon equivalents, but possibly HV and HW series.
As for the caps on the P4 board... I also can't quite make out what they are... but pretty much the same series of Kemet polymer caps listed above should work fine.

Reply 8 of 11, by johnvosh

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mockingbird wrote on 2024-05-30, 15:22:
johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-30, 15:11:

The P4 board bad caps are marked, 6.3v 3300uf. And of course they are in the hottest airflow from the heatsink

Use these. If the VRM high caps (to the right of the socket at the edge of the board are green with a "K" shaped vent, then leave them. If they're "OST" brand but look ok, they should be replaced (OST caps often fail without signs).

Here's some better pictures of the caps around the CPU socket.

Thanks for all the help!

Reply 9 of 11, by mockingbird

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johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-31, 01:55:

<snip>
Here's some better pictures of the caps around the CPU socket.

Thanks for all the help!

Keep these:

The attachment IMG_1407.JPG is no longer available

Good luck!

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Reply 10 of 11, by Thermalwrong

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mockingbird wrote on 2024-05-31, 02:31:
Keep these: […]
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johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-31, 01:55:

<snip>
Here's some better pictures of the caps around the CPU socket.

Thanks for all the help!

Keep these:

IMG_1407.JPG

Good luck!

I've scrapped a similar P4 board with bad caps / chipset before and pulled a similar set of caps all in a row around the socket like that. May have been (M) matsushita caps as well, they all tested perfect and I kept them for re-use.
Probably replacing the blue&gold caps by the inductors would get the board working again.

johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-30, 15:11:
mockingbird wrote on 2024-05-30, 14:07:
Yes, that's perfectly adequate. Good work. […]
Show full quote
johnvosh wrote on 2024-05-30, 12:42:
For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations wil […]
Show full quote

For a soldering iron, look for something around $100 from Aliexpress that has both hot air and an iron. The better stations will have the hot air circulation fan in the station itself, whereas the more inexpensive ones have the fan inside the piece that you hold when blowing the hot air.
...
Here are a couple pics of the caps in question. On the 939 board, I'd be replacing the big brown ones and the black ones along the socket. On the P4 board it is the ones by the socket.
...
I was looking and found https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/detail/sra … AO888A/10709792. Would this be an okay one?

Yes, that's perfectly adequate. Good work.

For the large brown caps on the 939 board, you can get these. For the skinny black ones, get these. Don't worry about the voltage differential. 2.5v caps on the VRM low are perfectly acceptable for 939.

For the P4 board, I couldn't make out what caps you got there.

Good luck.

The P4 board bad caps are marked, 6.3v 3300uf. And of course they are in the hottest airflow from the heatsink

It's not so much that they're in the hot airflow from the heatsink, I think they'd be more actively cooled by the fan even if it's hot air, power electronics can run much hotter than processors. It's more that those 3x bulged capacitors have a much tougher job and aren't paralleled up at all so they're pushed much harder than the other caps on the board.

For an iron I personally wouldn't use hot air, I'd just use the methods momaka listed, with a good quality iron like a TS101 / pinecil running at 24 volts and a good chunky tip like the TS-C4 it's doable.

Reply 11 of 11, by mockingbird

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Thermalwrong wrote on 2024-05-31, 20:52:

I've scrapped a similar P4 board with bad caps / chipset before and pulled a similar set of caps all in a row around the socket like that. May have been (M) matsushita caps as well, they all tested perfect and I kept them for re-use.
Probably replacing the blue&gold caps by the inductors would get the board working again.

Those are Panasonic FJ... Panasonic produced FJ and FL to compete with Rubycon MBZ/MCZ and Nichicon HM/HN (and HZ perhaps).

Nichicon HM/HN were defective until Nichicon fixed them some time in '05 (some people say late '04), and I don't trust Rubycon MBZ/MCZ as much as I do Panasonic FJ/FL... I have some very old parts from like '01 that still test good on my LCR meter. They definitely exceed their 2000 hour rating.

All aforementioned series were the ultra-Low ESR aqueous electrolytic caps offered by the large Japanese manufacturers back in the day.

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