chinny22 wrote on 2024-01-15, 04:41:

Man that mixer is almost as big as the PC! but it's just lying around then makes perfect sense.

It's from an older studio setup I had. I was thinking of selling it but hadn't gotten around to it yet. Turns out it came in handy of this project.

I think in the long run if I decide to make this a permanent setup, I'll probably go with something more compact like this ART 8-stereo channel mixer. Doesn't have any EQ options or fancy routing, but is much more compact.

I run audio extension cables from the back of each PC and manually plug the speakers into which ever PC I'm using at the time, takes a lot less space but naturally no ability to mix different sources

That can work as long as there is no need to mix multiple sound cards for things like digital audio and music.

That's an impressive 486 rig! 😳
I have tried to find a 90's case with a speed display (green led numbers), but no luck so far.

Nice setup.
What OS are you running ?
I would use the Pentium Over drive CPU because you have some expensive and rare sound cards.
The Pentium CPU plays games better so you will get the best sound out of those cards.
Also a Fast Quiet CDROM like Sony 52x
Nice case setup.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-05-29, 07:49:

Nice setup. What OS are you running ? I would us the Pentium Over drive CPU because you have some expensive and rare sound cards […]
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Nice setup.
What OS are you running ?
I would us the Pentium Over drive CPU because you have some expensive and rare sound cards.
The Pentium CPU plays games better so you will get the best sound out of those cards.
Also a Fast Quiet CDROM like Sony 52x
Nice case setup.

Thank you!

I'm running DOS 6.22 currently. I might install Windows 3.11 at some point, but haven't gotten to that yet.

I thought about using the Pentium Overdrive, but for games from 1993-1995 (what I'm targeting for this PC), I don't think there would be much benefit in terms of performance. Benchmarks I've seen tend to put the DX4-100 in similar running with the POD 83 for games of that era.

Quake would run better with that POD, but it's a bit beyond the scope of this build.

SGM wrote on 2024-05-29, 05:14:

That's an impressive 486 rig! 😳
I have tried to find a 90's case with a speed display (green led numbers), but no luck so far.

Thank you!

I lucked out getting this case a few years ago in quite good shape. They aren't the easiest to come by, that's for sure.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-06, 18:30:

Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE32 Address: 220 Interrupt: 5 DMA: 1/7 MIDI Port: 310 EMU8000: 620 FM: 388 Except for the MIDI por […]
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Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE32
Address: 220
Interrupt: 5
DMA: 1/7
MIDI Port: 310
EMU8000: 620
FM: 388
Except for the MIDI port I went with mostly stock hardware settings for the AWE32. This was to ensure broad compatibility with DOS games.
Since the CT3980 version of this card has genuine OPL, it's the primary FM synth card for Adlib support. I haven't installed any extra RAM or an external wavetable card yet, but I may in the future.
For simplicity sake I'm using the UNISOUND driver instead of the Creative Labs driver.

I am interested in one detail here. I am trying to set up just two sound cards atm, which worked out OK except for one thing. One of the cards is above CT 3980. (Have 2740 rev3 too, but too noisy for my taste)
It is equipped with 8MB ram and a NEC XR wavetable. (I know , a different issue...). I would want the OPL3 available for FM.

I am currently trying to pair it with the onboard sound (ESS SOLO-1 PCI). The FM goes to the same card, no matter what I set in the game. With swapping address 220/240 among the cards, I can get FM out of either one or the other, but it won't be selectable from within the game.
I currently have two theories as to which card the FM goes, when two cards are active: It either goes to the card on A220 OR it goes to the card that was installed first. Did you figure out where FM goes when several resources are present?

I can't just turn off one card, cause in DOS I want the daughterboard on the SB at 330 and I often want the ESS to do the SBPro digital (no DMA clicking).

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-05-29, 23:11:

Thank you! […]
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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-05-29, 07:49:

Nice setup. What OS are you running ? I would us the Pentium Over drive CPU because you have some expensive and rare sound cards […]
Show full quote

Nice setup.
What OS are you running ?
I would us the Pentium Over drive CPU because you have some expensive and rare sound cards.
The Pentium CPU plays games better so you will get the best sound out of those cards.
Also a Fast Quiet CDROM like Sony 52x
Nice case setup.

Thank you!

I'm running DOS 6.22 currently. I might install Windows 3.11 at some point, but haven't gotten to that yet.

I thought about using the Pentium Overdrive, but for games from 1993-1995 (what I'm targeting for this PC), I don't think there would be much benefit in terms of performance. Benchmarks I've seen tend to put the DX4-100 in similar running with the POD 83 for games of that era.

Quake would run better with that POD, but it's a bit beyond the scope of this build.

Win3x runs Amazingly better on a Pentium Overdrive CPU. And the Pentium can play MP3’s too.
Video files and Video CD’s
Networking is better, You can use a 100mb NIC with a WIFI extender for fast Networking.
You can always Slow down the Pentium by disabling Cache or using SetMul Utlity

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-06-10, 14:42:

Win3x runs Amazingly better on a Pentium Overdrive CPU. And the Pentium can play MP3’s too. Video files and Video CD’s Networkin […]
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Win3x runs Amazingly better on a Pentium Overdrive CPU. And the Pentium can play MP3’s too.
Video files and Video CD’s
Networking is better, You can use a 100mb NIC with a WIFI extender for fast Networking.
You can always Slow down the Pentium by disabling Cache or using SetMul Utlity

While I'm sure the Pentium OD would be good at those things, it's mostly beyond the scope of this build. I'm mainly just using this for early 90s DOS games with various music options.

ux-3 wrote on 2024-06-10, 05:42:

I am currently trying to pair it with the onboard sound (ESS SOLO-1 PCI). The FM goes to the same card, no matter what I set in the game. With swapping address 220/240 among the cards, I can get FM out of either one or the other, but it won't be selectable from within the game.
I currently have two theories as to which card the FM goes, when two cards are active: It either goes to the card on A220 OR it goes to the card that was installed first. Did you figure out where FM goes when several resources are present?

I can't just turn off one card, cause in DOS I want the daughterboard on the SB at 330 and I often want the ESS to do the SBPro digital (no DMA clicking).

In my experience when multiple sound cards are present, FM will typically work on all of them simultaneously. I've noticed this with sound cards where I leave the default FM port of 388, such as this build.

In the case of my 5 sound card 486 DX/33, I had to specifically re-assign the FM ports on the AWE64 and Yamaha cards to avoid conflicting with the GoldLib.

I haven't tried mixing multiple sound cards with onboard audio, nor I have tried mixing ISA and PCI sound cards and using them simultaneously for FM. So I'm afraid I don't have experience with the scenario you describe.

Shponglefan wrote on 2024-01-06, 18:30:

This build was inspired by Cloudschatze's MIDI General build, but with a couple different sound cards. […]
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This build was inspired by Cloudschatze's MIDI General build, but with a couple different sound cards.

486 DX4-100 OD Case Exterior.jpg

Specs as follows:

CPU: Intel 486DX-100 OverDrive
MB: ECS UM486V w/ 256k L2 cache (UMC UM82C480 chipset)
RAM: 16 MB (4x4MB 30 pin)
Disk Drives: 3.5" floppy drive
CD Drive: Toshiba 4x CD-ROM
Fixed Storage: 512 MB Sandisk CompactFlash + CF-IDE Adapter
Video Card: Tseng ET4000/WP32 VLB w/ 1 MB of RAM
Controller Card: DTK PTI-255W V1.2 VLB EIDE controller

Sound Cards:

Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE32 (CT3980)
Gravis UltraSound PnP
Guillemot MaxiSound 64 Home Studio Pro (SC8600) + Yamaha DB51XG daughterboard
Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16 (PAS16)
Reveal Sound FX Wave 32 (Ensoniq Soundscape clone)
Roland SCC-1

486 DX4-100 OD Case Internals.jpg

The first challenge for this build was selecting a motherboard and case combo that could accommodate all these cards. I opted for a Socket 3 board that had a total of 8 ISA slots with minimal obstructions on the board itself. I ended up with a 1993 UM486V motherboard.

Based on the sound cards I was planning, I wanted decent performance for games up to the mid-90s. Since this board only support 5V processors, I opted to go with an Intel 486DX-100 OverDrive processor. I also considered a Pentium overdrive instead, but decided to stick with a pure 486 setup.

Cooling is provided by a couple Noctua fans. I side-mounted a Noctua 40mm fan to the CPU heatsink directly. There is an additional 80mm fan exhaust fan mounted to the case.

486 DX4-100 OD processor closeup.jpg

I did run into an issue with the stock BIOS not recognizing the L2 cache with an overdrive processor installed. Fortunately this was solved by using an alternative MR BIOS version for the UM82C480 chipset.

The board has a pair VLB slots which are used for the controller card and video card.

For storage, I went with a standard quad speed CD-ROM, 3.5" floppy and 512MB Compact Flash card. The CF card is mounted internally using a 3D printed drive bay CF-to-IDE adapter.

486 DX4-100 OD CF card closeup.jpg

Getting everything installed and configured was a bit of a challenge and involved some compromises. But everything is set up so that all cards can be used via a single AUTOEXEC configuration. No batch files or boot menus are needed.

Based on initial testing, most things seem to work. The only incompatibility I've run into has been Warcraft 2 and digital audio for the Reveal Sound FX Wave 32 and PAS16. For whatever reason, digital audio doesn't work properly; the digital sample will constantly restart resulting in a stuttering sound. But digital audio in other games like Descent and Dark Forces works fine.

I haven't figured out how I'm going to route all the audio yet. I've got some ideas for mixer setups, but I'll have to experiment to find a workable setup.

Nice build! But, where's the power supply in all that?

Linoleum wrote on 2024-06-12, 00:20:

Nice build! But, where's the power supply in all that?

Thank you!

PSU is in there, above the exhaust fan. I cropped the picture, since I didn't it was that interesting to look at.

It's just a generic 250W AT PSU.

Minor update to this build. I replaced the 512MB SanDisk CF card with a 2GB Verbatim CF card.

I usually stick with 512MB in 486 systems for compatibility, but the MR BIOS version I am using in this build does allow for larger drive sizes.

Part of the reason I wanted more space was to install and test Crusader: No Remorse.

I had previously been testing this on my Pentium 4 build and ran into sound issues (stuttering) during the FMV sequences. This seemed to be the result of sound card incompatibilities. Issues arose with the MK8330 and Orpheus II sound cards, whereas an AWE64 worked fine.

For this system, I tried both the Sound Blaster AWE32 (CT3980) and Reveal Sound FX Wave 32 (Ensoniq Soundscape). In both cases I had identical audio stuttering during the initial title screen FMV sequence.

I suspect that this issue is performance related. The minimum requirements for Crusader is DX2-66, but a Pentium is recommended. I would have thought a DX4-100 should be fast enough, but perhaps not?

I also tested the game with my Pentium 90 and Pentium 133 systems (AWE32 CT2760 and CT3900). FMV played back fine with no stutters on both of those systems.

Which sound card has the best game compatibility and audio ?
I am still looking for the best sound card with best DOS/Win3x/Win95 game compatibility.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-06-23, 09:44:

Which sound card has the best game compatibility and audio ?
I am still looking for the best sound card with best DOS/Win3x/Win95 game compatibility.

In my opinion, Sound Blaster AWE32 or Sound Blaster 32 (pnp versions are easier) seem to work with all DOS/Win3x/Win95 apps and games, also emulates Adlib (FM, OPL3) sound/music well enough, not to mention SB16 and older SB cards. I haven't seen a single DOS game that didn't work with SB32/AWE32, and it sounds awesome right out of the box.

SGM wrote on 2024-06-23, 10:10:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-06-23, 09:44:

Which sound card has the best game compatibility and audio ?
I am still looking for the best sound card with best DOS/Win3x/Win95 game compatibility.

In my opinion, Sound Blaster AWE32 or Sound Blaster 32 (pnp versions are easier) seem to work with all DOS/Win3x/Win95 apps and games, also emulates Adlib (FM, OPL3) sound/music well enough, not to mention SB16 and older SB cards. I haven't seen a single DOS game that didn't work with SB32/AWE32, and it sounds awesome right out of the box.

I am not really an expert for sound cards. But given my limited experience of maybe 8 Soundblaser ISA cards in my life, I would NOT advise to get an AWE32 or SB16. Why not? The first killer is voice performance in older DOS games, if it triggers the DMA clicking bug. Take the privateer intro and listen to it on SB16 or 32 cards. Many SB cards will give your ears a rough time. It isn't a minor issue, it kills immersion. If you want SB and not this bug, then an AWE64 is the pretty well the only option, provided you can live the the OPL emulation. There are worse ones for sure. Just make sure the mixerchip ends on -A. The 64 should work in Win95 and Win3.1 as well. If you want a card with a wide compatibility range, decent audio, and good game support, the AWE64 fills that bill. Two major drawbacks: No wavetable header and CQM instead of OPL3.

Personally, if I have to limit myself to just one card, I'd take a Soundblaster Pro compatible card. There are many, I don't know them all. I find the ESS OPL clone to be very close to the real thing. So I would pick an ESS 1868F based card with a wavetable header.

ux-3 wrote on 2024-06-23, 12:15:

Personally, if I have to limit myself to just one card, I'd take a Soundblaster Pro compatible card.

It doesn't have the EMU8000 chip for awesome MIDI music, or AWE64's pretty close emulation of it.

SGM wrote on 2024-06-23, 13:35:

ux-3 wrote on 2024-06-23, 12:15:

Personally, if I have to limit myself to just one card, I'd take a Soundblaster Pro compatible card.

It doesn't have the EMU8000 chip for awesome MIDI music, or AWE64's pretty close emulation of it.

Well, it does have a bug free wavetable header though... So you are free to enjoy awesome Midi music too once you stick a wavetable on it.
But I think I shouldn't debate this further in someones build thread.

ux-3 wrote on 2024-06-23, 14:29:

Well, it does have a bug free wavetable header though... So you are free to enjoy awesome Midi music too once you stick a wavetable on it.
But I think I shouldn't debate this further in someones build thread.

AWE64 doesn't have a wavetable header. It's an unfortunate limitation on an otherwise good sound card.

And I'm okay with sound card debate here. I mean, this build is about sticking a whole bunch of sound cards in one PC so it seems topical. 😁

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-06-23, 09:44:

Which sound card has the best game compatibility and audio ?
I am still looking for the best sound card with best DOS/Win3x/Win95 game compatibility.

In my experience there is no single best sound card. Given the various sound standards available under DOS (and Windows), the best way to achieve broad compatibility is to use multiple sound cards.

My recommendation would be to look at which games you want to be able to play and which type of sound you want to use with them. For example, some people prefer FM synthesis for game music so having good FM-reproduction is important (i.e. genuine Yamaha OPL support). Others might prefer the MT-32, so proper MPU-401 with intelligent mode support might be desired.

FWIW, here are my favorite cards for DOS / Windows 95:

• Orpheus II
• Gravis Ultrasound Extreme
• Gravis Ultrasound Classic / ACE / Primax Soundstorm
• Yamaha Audician 32 (Yamaha YMF7xx)
• Guillemot Maxi Sound 64 Home Studio Pro
• Creative Labs AWE64 / AWE64 Gold
• Adlib Gold / Goldlib
• Roland SCC-1 / MPU-401AT
• Diamond Monster Sound MX300

In most of my builds, I will usually combine at least 3 of the above cards to achieve broad games compatibility.

SGM wrote on 2024-06-23, 10:10:

In my opinion, Sound Blaster AWE32 or Sound Blaster 32 (pnp versions are easier) seem to work with all DOS/Win3x/Win95 apps and games, also emulates Adlib (FM, OPL3) sound/music well enough, not to mention SB16 and older SB cards. I haven't seen a single DOS game that didn't work with SB32/AWE32, and it sounds awesome right out of the box.

There are various versions of these cards, so depending on the specific model features and audio output will differ. For example, older AWE32 cards used genuine Yamaha chips for FM synthesis whereas later cards used Creative Labs own CQM synthesis, so FM playback will sound different. Different models have different DSP chips (some are noisier than others). Some have the DMA clicking bug. Etc.

My preference is to go with an AWE64 for SB16/AWE32 support, then supplement other sound support (FM / MIDI, etc) with another card.

There is a list of all the Creative Labs sound card models and various issues with each model here: Sound Blaster: From best to worst