Galova wrote on 2024-06-26, 23:28:

Well, shrinking the player interface seems to help. Maybe not perfectly but it does for sure. I've also disabled recording devic […]
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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-06-26, 21:59:

Test these and report back.

Well, shrinking the player interface seems to help. Maybe not perfectly but it does for sure. I've also disabled recording device the way you pointed by removing it from the list clicking the minus button, just in case.
My PC has a cpu integrated intel graphics as it can be seen in cpu name. It is Pentium G2120. G goes for graphics core obviously. I've just haven't noticed such issues even with youtube videos watched from that PC which should be a lot more resource hungry than a MIDI player. So it seems like player animation or something like that makes it lag. First I thought it may be related to multicore support, because some software tends to have issues with it. My PC runs dual core CPU and Windows XP doesn't fully support multicore CPUs. It supports dual core only and it is not as full as in later Windows versions. So this may have issues sometimes. Programms running in single-threaded mode for example may fully load some core while keeping other cores idle. Windows 98 doesn't support it at all.
Is it possible to optimize it some way?
Should I install some discrete video card instead of using integrated one? What is your opinion? May it help? I didn't know that integrated graphics may have issues with some software. I just have no idea where to get a working windows 98/XP compatible video card these days. I used to have one, but I'm afraid it's dead. Since lags depend on visualization it must be GPU or GUI related.

I would also kindly ask you to add a feature allowing to show and hide animated piano keyboard without hiding everything else with it, because I really like your player and do not want to use another one.

Not , you not riight about designations G , you think what is designations as in AMD Ryzen , but Intel use other method in marking processors if you say about LGA1156 and newer that is Sandy Bridge and newer , in this CPUs include Graphics core always as in Core i series same in Pentium and Celeron )

Problem can will if enable c-states , try disable all , except C1E , if will work better , use so )

Windows XP often bad work with modern power saving technologies

Roland User wrote on 2024-06-27, 15:59:

Not , you not riight about designations G , you think what is designations as in AMD Ryzen , but Intel use other method in marking processors if you say about LGA1156 and newer that is Sandy Bridge and newer , in this CPUs include Graphics core always as in Core i series same in Pentium and Celeron )

Problem can will if enable c-states , try disable all , except C1E , if will work better , use so )

Windows XP often bad work with modern power saving technologies

Please would you give me a hint where do I find those settings and some little details. My guess it's in BIOS, but I've never tinkered with these settings preferring to leave untouched anything that works as is. You know, just in case.

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-06-27, 08:20:

So something strange must be happening on your system.

TGD interval 1 ms as well.

some thoughts:
Both CPUs you mentioned have no GPU cores inside. Phenom etc are pure CPU and it is driven by same era chipsets.
I believe Pentium Gxxx used in my PC (as well as same family Celerons) are so called APU. I'm quite sure that Windows XP, both operating system (directX. hardware acceleration, cpu support, power management etc) and drivers haven't ever been optimized to be run on hardware like that, because it simply haven't existed by the moment. There are drivers to make it work someway, but I'm sure winXP doesn't adequately support all those features. They must be mostly controlled by BIOS, without proper control by OS like in moden Windows.

So my guess it may be chipset and cpu related. Integrated GPU core inside of Pentium processor is suspect no.1
Older PCs didn't use advanced power management and power saving technologies introduced later. Deep cpu throttling control, dynamic voltage/frequency control features etc. Also older PCs have never used APUs.
I think Windows XP doesn't take full control of hardware features and they are mostly controlled by BIOS settings and chipset so they don't function really good in tandem. And it may cause glitches in some situations.

For example I've just noticed a strong playback lag (short hang) each time screensaver starts.
Screensaver must be OS GUI related and this means GPU.
Default winxp screensaver is a very primitive application and cannot affect CPU performance in no way. Nonetheless it makes system cough when starts. I've found some technical specification for Pentium G2120 concerning its intel graphics core. It has dynamic GPU frequency as well (documented min/max gpu core speed). This can cause problems with system latency whenever gpu is loaded dynamically because of all those things I mentioned above.

Fun fact: I used to have Pentium 200MMX PC and AMD Athlon XP 3200 running Windows 98se and XP and no lags were present even with CPU hungry softsynths like Yamaha s-yxg50 and Roland VSC88 in combination with running MIDI DAWs. Now I've got a PC which is about 10000X faster and I get lags. ROFL.

That is why I think I should make a try with some ancient PCI-e videocard completely disabling intel graphics in order to try to stop it's interference. Though I haven't got one to experiment with.

Galova wrote on 2024-06-27, 22:40:

Roland User wrote on 2024-06-27, 15:59:

Not , you not riight about designations G , you think what is designations as in AMD Ryzen , but Intel use other method in marking processors if you say about LGA1156 and newer that is Sandy Bridge and newer , in this CPUs include Graphics core always as in Core i series same in Pentium and Celeron )

Problem can will if enable c-states , try disable all , except C1E , if will work better , use so )

Windows XP often bad work with modern power saving technologies

Please would you give me a hint where do I find those settings and some little details. My guess it's in BIOS, but I've never tinkered with these settings preferring to leave untouched anything that works as is. You know, just in case.

I think first you should check that Power Options -> Selected schema is Home/Desktop.
(I have Hungarian WinXP so the exact English terms can be different)

Galova wrote on 2024-06-27, 22:52:

TGD interval 1 ms as well. […]
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Falcosoft wrote on 2024-06-27, 08:20:

So something strange must be happening on your system.

TGD interval 1 ms as well.

some thoughts:
Both CPUs you mentioned have no GPU cores inside. Phenom etc are pure CPU and it is driven by same era chipsets.
I believe Pentium Gxxx used in my PC (as well as same family Celerons) are so called APU. I'm quite sure that Windows XP, both operating system (directX. hardware acceleration, cpu support, power management etc) and drivers haven't ever been optimized to be run on hardware like that, because it simply haven't existed by the moment. There are drivers to make it work someway, but I'm sure winXP doesn't adequately support all those features. They must be mostly controlled by BIOS, without proper control by OS like in moden Windows.

So my guess it may be chipset and cpu related. Integrated GPU core inside of Pentium processor is suspect no.1
Older PCs didn't use advanced power management and power saving technologies introduced later. Deep cpu throttling control, dynamic voltage/frequency control features etc. Also older PCs have never used APUs.
I think Windows XP doesn't take full control of hardware features and they are mostly controlled by BIOS settings and chipset so they don't function really good in tandem. And it may cause glitches in some situations.

Hi,
I could test with a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 that has a CPU/GPU from the same generation as yours (I5-3210M Ivy Bridge). I have found no problems when power option scheme was set to desktop. Since it is a laptop I could not test PCI Midi devices only S-YXG50 WDM Soft synth. So integrated GPU alone does not explain your lagging problem.
Could you test with another Midi Out port like MS GS Soft synth? Just to make sure your problem is Midi Out port specific or not.

Galova
What be , if you use Throtle Stop ? Witht use this application same micro-stutters or no ?
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowe … p-throttlestop/
Also please disable all EPU / TPU and such technologies.

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-06-28, 03:40:

I think first you should check that Power Options -> Selected schema is Home/Desktop.
(I have Hungarian WinXP so the exact English terms can be different)
poweropt_XP.JPG

Yes, configured as you noted. I remember using windows XP and since I am experienced PC user I remember all these things. winxp power management is set to desktop. According to microsoft knowledge base this completely disables any cpu throttling etc forcing cpu to work at nominal (top) frequency. Also this power scheme is always enabled by default in most cases unless you got laptop with battery interface.

I have also googled some forums, because I remember some time when there was a hotfix for multiprocessor PC and windows XP.
I've read some microsoft article regarding boot.ini flags such as /usepmtimer forcing OS to use another type of system timer.

This problem occurs when the computer has the AMD Cool'n'Quiet technology (AMD dual cores) enabled in the BIOS or some Intel multi-core processors. Multi-core or multiprocessor systems may encounter Time Stamp Counter (TSC) drift when the time between different cores is not synchronized. The operating systems that use TSC as a timekeeping resource may experience the issue.

I don't know whether it's true for my PC, but I've put this flag and it seems to make it run smoother.
I've also put some registry key I found on forums. I've read there that even since dual-core support was fixed with service pack 3, it is still recommended to edit system settings manually to make it work better.

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-06-28, 04:20:

Hi, I could test with a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 that has a CPU/GPU from the same generation as yours (I5-3210M Ivy Bridge). I have […]
Show full quote

Hi,
I could test with a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 that has a CPU/GPU from the same generation as yours (I5-3210M Ivy Bridge). I have found no problems when power option scheme was set to desktop. Since it is a laptop I could not test PCI Midi devices only S-YXG50 WDM Soft synth. So integrated GPU alone does not explain your lagging problem.
Could you test with another Midi Out port like MS GS Soft synth? Just to make sure your problem is Midi Out port specific or not.
t430_xp.JPG

🤣 your Intel graphics seems to be a lot more serious thing according to specs.

I've used same utils and noticed that one of the cores tends to cut frequency in half. here's screenshot

Roland User wrote on 2024-06-28, 10:40:

Galova What be , if you use Throtle Stop ? Witht use this application same micro-stutters or no ? https://www.techpowerup.com/do […]
Show full quote

Galova
What be , if you use Throtle Stop ? Witht use this application same micro-stutters or no ?
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowe … p-throttlestop/
Also please disable all EPU / TPU and such technologies.

Oh thank you so much I should test it right now. Hope it makes it stop this weird behaviour.
Though I still think it may be related to graphics performance which is quite low grade even among their own kin.
I've noticed that windows xp default screensaver start causes sound lag.

Galova wrote on 2024-06-28, 18:32:

Falcosoft wrote on 2024-06-28, 04:20:

Hi, I could test with a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 that has a CPU/GPU from the same generation as yours (I5-3210M Ivy Bridge). I have […]
Show full quote

Hi,
I could test with a Lenovo Thinkpad T430 that has a CPU/GPU from the same generation as yours (I5-3210M Ivy Bridge). I have found no problems when power option scheme was set to desktop. Since it is a laptop I could not test PCI Midi devices only S-YXG50 WDM Soft synth. So integrated GPU alone does not explain your lagging problem.
Could you test with another Midi Out port like MS GS Soft synth? Just to make sure your problem is Midi Out port specific or not.
t430_xp.JPG

🤣 your Intel graphics seems to be a lot more serious thing according to specs.

I've used same utils and noticed that one of the cores tends to cut frequency in half. here's screenshot

Hi,
There is no reply from you to this so far:

Could you test with another Midi Out port like MS GS Soft synth? Just to make sure your problem is Midi Out port specific or not.

Galova wrote on 2024-06-28, 18:07:

I have also googled some forums, because I remember some time when there was a hotfix for multiprocessor PC and windows XP. I've […]
Show full quote

I have also googled some forums, because I remember some time when there was a hotfix for multiprocessor PC and windows XP.
I've read some microsoft article regarding boot.ini flags such as /usepmtimer forcing OS to use another type of system timer.

This problem occurs when the computer has the AMD Cool'n'Quiet technology (AMD dual cores) enabled in the BIOS or some Intel multi-core processors. Multi-core or multiprocessor systems may encounter Time Stamp Counter (TSC) drift when the time between different cores is not synchronized. The operating systems that use TSC as a timekeeping resource may experience the issue.

I don't know whether it's true for my PC, but I've put this flag and it seems to make it run smoother.
I've also put some registry key I found on forums. I've read there that even since dual-core support was fixed with service pack 3, it is still recommended to edit system settings manually to make it work better.

Intel Ivy Bridge (and any Intel CPU at least from Nehalem) uses invariant TSC so this problem should not affect your CPU at all.
First dual-core AMD CPUs worked like real multi processor systems in this respect: both cores had an independent TSC counter that could go out of sync thus causing problems.
Phenoms already used invariant TSC the same way as Intel.

Galova
Also you can use this applications for searching problem
https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
https://www.softslot.com/software-2760-dpc-la … cy-checker.html

Roland User wrote on 2024-06-28, 10:40:

Galova What be , if you use Throtle Stop ? Witht use this application same micro-stutters or no ? https://www.techpowerup.com/do […]
Show full quote

Galova
What be , if you use Throtle Stop ? Witht use this application same micro-stutters or no ?
https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowe … p-throttlestop/
Also please disable all EPU / TPU and such technologies.

I have installed throttlestop version 6 (newer ones fail to start)
I've tried different settings like setting 100% and using maximum cpu counter (it equals 31 for my CPU) but doesn't seem to change anything literally.
realtime stats indication shows it doesn't affect CPU in no way. nothing seems to change.

Next step I have disabled intel speedstep technology in BIOS. And.... 🤣 nothing changed! CPU throttled, throttles and it is obviously going to throttle further just like I didn't set anything anywhere. It just follows its internal microcode or something.

My CPU full state must be 3.1 GHz, throttlestop utility which at least works as CPU monitor shows 2.3 ghz and floating multipier like 21-26 etc. It should be fixed to 31 with the frequency of 3.1 GHz as a result.
insane

What you see in latrncymon and dpc latency when have freeze ?
Which process have more time on running ?

Roland User wrote on 2024-06-29, 23:15:

What you see in latrncymon and dpc latency when have freeze ?
Which process have more time on running ?

hmm.... the latencymon app is kernel dependant and cannot be run on winxp (vista and up only according to developer faq)
dpc latency utility shows outstanding performance all the time. Even my main PC with 16-core Ryzen running win 10 indicates timings which look worse for some reason.

To run some comparison tests I have found yet another player named TMIDI player. Actually there are 2 midi players with this name.
First one is japanese, another one is located at https://www.grandgent.com/tom/projects/tmidi/.
Japanese one has been translated by someone to english and it is currently available at https://www.mediafire.com/file/qd45n380b0djsw … v3.8.6.zip/file.
I do not know whether these two players are made by same person or not, because they are rather different.
Both players have some visualization features and, as I've been testing them, they didn't seem to lag on my older pc yet.
These are both nice players too, good to have them in collection, because they translate sysex messages, for example, and show their details. must be some database inside

Hi Zoltan )
I'm looked your GitHub and can not search older versions FSMP , where this can download ? I think , what this can clarify what not normaly from the user Galova )

Roland User wrote on 2024-07-02, 00:42:

Hi Zoltan )
I'm looked your GitHub and can not search older versions FSMP , where this can download ? I think , what this can clarify what not normaly from the user Galova )

FSMP is not on Github (never was) but some older versions can be downloaded from Internet Archive:
https://archive.org/details/falcosoft-midi-player

I know this is not directly a FSMP question but it's tangentially related and maybe someone here can help me. I have a work laptop with Windows 10 I can not install software on. I have redistributable versions of Dosbox and FSMP on it, but installing a third party MIDI mapper like Coolsoft is not possible. I would like to route Dosbox's MIDI out to FSMP instead of Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth but obviously FSMP is not listed as an option when I do mixer /listmidi in DOSBOX. Is it possible to make DOSBOX aware of its existence as a midi output option? Or make FSMP capture DOSBOX's MIDI out somehow?

appiah4 wrote on 2024-07-02, 08:27:

I know this is not directly a FSMP question but it's tangentially related and maybe someone here can help me. I have a work laptop with Windows 10 I can not install software on. I have redistributable versions of Dosbox and FSMP on it, but installing a third party MIDI mapper like Coolsoft is not possible. I would like to route Dosbox's MIDI out to FSMP instead of Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth but obviously FSMP is not listed as an option when I do mixer /listmidi in DOSBOX. Is it possible to make DOSBOX aware of its existence as a midi output option? Or make FSMP capture DOSBOX's MIDI out somehow?

Unfortunately I do not think so. You would need some kind of virtual Midi cable but none of them works without installing the necessary driver components.

I feared as much but glad to have someone who knows their stuff confirm it. Cheers mate.

Hi,
FSMP version 6.4 has been released:
https://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html#midiplayer

version 6.4 new features and fixes:

1. Added EMIDI (Duke 3D, SW) track options for different instrument sets.

2. Event Viewer/Debugger file save does not save disabled tracks.

3. Added SC-55 mkI SysEx Volume/Mute support.

4. Fixed some XMI loop problems.

5. Fixed SysEx volume is not applied at start when No SysEx reset option is used.

6. Fixed modulation/vibrato rate problem in case of Bassmidi output.

7. Other minor fixes and enhancements.