douglar wrote on 2024-07-02, 18:05:

I'd be concerned that the drive works fine for the first 80GB but starts corrupting data after that point, where the addresses used by DOS after 80GB start overwriting locations under 80GB.

You're right. I have same concerns and so I'm not using that drive anymore but a 128GB SSD where BIOS reports correct capacity of that 128GB.

douglar wrote on 2024-07-02, 18:05:

Here's my $6 mSata device that I put together yesterday.

Nicely done and thanks that you will publish the STL for others to reproduce.

I've got to work with a 60GB BIOS implementation and I haven't worked out exactly how many internal drives I can get to work properly. But since I'm told SATA-to-IDE drives refuse to master/slave properly I'm possibly stuck with one drive either way.

ToastyBox wrote on 2024-07-03, 04:48:

But since I'm told SATA-to-IDE drives refuse to master/slave properly I'm possibly stuck with one drive either way.

Really?
My StarTech SATA-to-IDE adapter has a jumper setting for master/slave.
But haven't tested that as I only have 1 primary master (SSD) + 1 secondary master (CD-ROM).

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-07-02, 13:27:

From my experience, most consumer CF cards manufactured from the mid 2000s and onward identify themselves as "removable media". This can cause issues on retro machines, especially under Windows, but I've had occasional short freezes (1-2 seconds) even in pure DOS. In contrast, industrial grade CF cards identify themselves as a "fixed disk" and I had no freezing issues with them, regardless of operating system.

I wonder if those "short freezes" were similar to me saving Warcraft II using a non-industrial CF card as HDD.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-07-02, 13:27:

Industrial grade CF cards are labeled as such on the packaging, and they are usually sold at a higher price.

Here's one on Transcend's website, for reference purposes.

There's a small "trick" of Transcend's industrial CF cards: those with -I suffix are the "true" industrial models with triple MTBF and wider temperature tolerance. Comes with higher prices though (the 8GB CF180 and CF180I are 16% and 45% more expensive than CF170, respectively).

dormcat wrote on 2024-07-03, 05:58:

I wonder if those "short freezes" were similar to me saving Warcraft II using a non-industrial CF card as HDD.

Well, my system didn't crash when that happened, and it wasn't exactly a common occurrence. But when it did happen, the entire rig became frozen for a second or two during disk access, then resumed operation normally. However, I would (rarely) get a complete lockup during the DOS 6.22 boot sequence, and the computer would fail to detect the CF card after the reset. I always had to fully power down the machine to get that "fixed". Of course, I had no such issues after switching to an industrial CF card.

EDIT - I also recall that LGR sometimes had read/write issues when using a consumer CF card in his woodgrain 486. You can see it in this video at the 11:40 mark.

There's a small "trick" of Transcend's industrial CF cards: those with -I suffix are the "true" industrial models with triple MTBF and wider temperature tolerance.

Interesting. I'm not sure if that extra functionality is needed for a DOS retro rig though. For me, the main benefits of an industrial CF card are that it identifies as a "fixed disk", uses SLC instead of MLC and has wear leveling. Both the CF170 and the CF300 models that I use have those features.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-07-03, 06:33:

Interesting. I'm not sure if that extra functionality is needed for a DOS retro rig though. For me, the main benefits of an industrial CF card are that it identifies as a "fixed disk", uses SLC instead of MLC and has wear leveling. Both the CF170 and the CF300 models that I use have those features.

CF170 uses MLC instead of SLC, however.

As a Taiwanese company (its HQ is not far from my residence), I wonder why it only offers CF180/180I (MLC with "SLC mode"), CF170 (MLC), and CF80 (SLC but doesn't support UDMA). They are only available via their website or three storefronts, and are more expensive than the MSI N750-1GD5/OC (GTX 750) I bought last week (NT$400). 😅

dormcat wrote on 2024-07-03, 07:39:

CF170 uses MLC instead of SLC, however.

My bad, it was CF300 that used SLC.

It is indeed a bit odd that there are so many varieties of these cards.

Phew, for me it's too much to take care of when using CF cards.
And those heavily overpriced prices are not worth it.

For me personally SSD is the better solution in terms of reliabilty and price.

Here's some CF Benchmarks.
Testing Config:

• Tests performed in SpeedSys 4.78 from a Win98se MS Dos 7.1 floppy image.
• The Nforce motherboard has a BIOS that supports UDMA in DOS, so no additional drivers were loaded
• The SIIG VLB IDE controller ( Promise 20630) used the Promise v3.3 drivers with speed M8 or PA. No other drivers or memory managers were loaded. Test system has MR BIOS 1.65 and XtIDE Universal BIOS v625.

Notes--

• The reason the Kingston 16GB mSata in UDMA2 benchmarks are blank is because I forgot to run it. I'll run it when I get a chance, but it might not be for a week.
• The Kingston 16GB mSata device was using a generic Jmircon Sata bridge, and would not work in DMA 2 mode (Speed M8), but would work in PIO w/ IOReady (Speed PA)
• The Memory Partner 512MB didn't do anything faster than DMA 2 mode, but when compared against other devices in DMA 2 mode, it appeared to be optimized for that transfer mode.
• The SanDisk Extreme 8GB needed to be manually set to "LBA" mode in the BIOS in order to function on the Nforce Motherboard
• The Lexmark 16GB is labeled "Professional" with lots of big numbers, but it turns out that the guts are the same as the Memory Partner 2GB

Edit: Here is some additional info about these devices:

• Kingston 16GB mSata ATA info: "SNS4151S316GD" Firmware Revision: S9FM01.6 -- looks legit. nice that the guy that sold me a bag of 10 mSata devices for $20 sold me the real thing
• Memory Partner 512MB ATA info: "SMC512BFI6E" Firmware Revision: CF060926 -- 2006-09-26 firmware for STMicroelectronics hardware
• Memory Partner 2GB ATA info: "CF Card" Firmware Revision: Ver2.35
• Lexmark Professional ATA info: "CF Card" Firmware Revision: Ver2.35 -- Whoa! Same guts. Memory Partner might sell Lexmark leftovers, but I probably just got a counterfeit Lexmark. The differences in performance are probably related to different flash chips
• Sandisk Extreme 4GB - No ATA Info Reported --
• Sandisk Extreme 8GB - No ATA Info Reported -- A little surprised by this. Both look like legit, used devices based on the packaging.

I thought it would be easy to get the Kingston SSD to work in UDMA2 mode but it turned out to be a lesson in pain, failure and frustration.

The first 40 pin cable cable I tried bent a pin on the motherboard header, cracked the header block, and once I fixed up those items, showed all the signsof failed signalling. Tried a different cable, things sort of worked on average at the speeds I expected, but some of the numbers were too high and there were enough dips in the speedsys graphs that made me think that the Kingston device was trying to do UDMA5 over a 40 conductor cable, but failing 1/2 the time. So I scrapped that plan, a little wiser, but annoyed. The BIOS did let me force some PIO modes, so I ran with that since had everything hooked up. The results sort of made sense proportionally, but the numbers looked a low for PIO2 & 4.

Anyway, enough of that.

Here are my two takes on the CF front bracket:

Well, I use SD instead of CF, but always on the front. I like the easy access for file swaps.

And... I want to see it and make it look cool. 😀

StriderTR wrote on 2024-07-08, 06:28:

Well, I use SD instead of CF, but always on the front. I like the easy access for file swaps.

And... I want to see it and make it look cool. 😀

I like the SD storage. The problem I have with SD's is that they are so losable, and your front panel looks like an elegant solution.

Have you considered arranging them like this:

You won't fit as many, but maybe the labels will be more clear ?

I wonder if you could hack a 35mm photographic slide carousel into an SD card or CF card magazine 🤣

I am moving to the SSD Removable Bracket idea:

douglar wrote on 2024-07-08, 12:56:

I like the SD storage. The problem I have with SD's is that they are so losable, and your front panel looks like an elegant sol […]
Show full quote

StriderTR wrote on 2024-07-08, 06:28:

Well, I use SD instead of CF, but always on the front. I like the easy access for file swaps.

And... I want to see it and make it look cool. 😀

I like the SD storage. The problem I have with SD's is that they are so losable, and your front panel looks like an elegant solution.

Have you considered arranging them like this:

The attachment Untitled.png is no longer available

You won't fit as many, but maybe the labels will be more clear ?

That is actually a design I found over and Thingiverse and altered to fit my needs. I just posted my "make" over there as well.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5472371

I was actually looking at making a version with angled slots similar to what you're thinking, perhaps just holding 4 SD cards stored at that up-facing angle. I only use 2 cards on that machine, so I don't need all those extra slots. Plus, it would make them readable at a glance.

I will note that those slots, as they are, hold the cards really well since they are as deep as they can be, but still able to easily get the cards out.

Either way, I am already in the process of making my own revision with fewer slots, a blank "window" that you can add your own text or image on, and a much simpler way to mount a backlight to that window. I'll probably do a non-backlit windowless version as well.

Once I'm done with it, I will be uploading it to Thingiverse for others to do with as they please, and I'll likely post it on here as well. 😀