Questions on differences between ES1868 and ES1869. \ VOGONS

Questions on differences between ES1868 and ES1869.

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First post, by LSS10999

Posted on 2024-07-04, 07:34

LSS10999 Offline

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I'm thinking of building this sound card for experimenting, but I'm not sure whether ES1869F can be used instead of ES1868F, as that's what I could find and order at the moment.

I've read and compared the datasheets of both (available in the repo's docs folder) and it seems the two chips are fully pin compatible with respect to the schematic, except one most important difference -- the MONO IN (26) and MONO OUT (25) pins on ES1869F.

ES1868F doesn't have MONO IN/OUT and the pin 25 was instead an additional PSEL meant for selecting whether to use an external or internal ROM for config, while pin 26 was a VDD.

The ES1869 datasheet does have a typical application diagram, but that diagram had no mention of MONO IN/OUT so I'm not sure how they should be connected if not being used. That is, whether they'll not cause any trouble if connected the same way as if it were a ES1868. The questions would be:
- Where should I solder JP1 to (1-2 for VCC or 2-3 for GND), or can I just leave it unsoldered so MONO OUT (25) would be left floating?
- MONO IN (26) is connected to VCC and for this PCB I've no other choice for it. Will this cause any problem with respect to the mixer? I think I'll need to make sure MONO IN/OUT are correctly muted in this case.

NOTE: For ES1869F only JP2 which points to SECS/PSEL (20) matters for selecting internal or external ROM. I plan to use internal ROM anyway so that would be 2-3.

On the other hand, I don't know if anyone else had built such a card before. The photo on the official repo was about rev1.1, while it has since been updated to a newer rev1.2 which exposed the AUXA pins, that is used for analog CD audio according to the datasheet, though it does not follow the usual CD audio pinouts so one needs to make modifications to the CD audio cable in order to use it.

Reply 1 of 6, by zwrr

Posted on 2024-07-04, 08:03

zwrr Offline

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You can also try to buy a cheap ES1868 nameless card to get the chip, I guess it's easy to get, I took this way to get the chip to make the same three sound cards.

Pentium MMX233, Zida TX98-3D, 64MB, Riva 128, Aztech Waverider Pro 32-3D, HardMPU-wt

K6-III+550, FIC VA-503+, 256MB, Voodoo3 2000, Creative AWE32, HardMPU-wt

Tualatin-1.4G, QDI A10BM, 512MB, G400, Voodoo2 SLI, Creative AWE64

Reply 2 of 6, by quigonhu

Posted on 2024-07-04, 08:54

quigonhu Offline

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Well, fisrt of all, it's definitely NOT a PIN to PIN replacement of these two chips! Quite similar, but not exactly the same!

Second of all, do you have experience with drawing the schematic and the layout? If not, maybe it's better not do the smartie thing.
There're at lease 2 other different definition pins between the two chips, PIN52 and PIN60.
And all the address pins should be confirmed. I found them should be the same. But it's better to double check it.

Then what are you going to do with the different pins( at leaset 4 pins )? My suggestion, there's a typical application diagram in the datasheet, just follow this design, normally it's safe.

Reply 3 of 6, by LSS10999

Posted on 2024-07-04, 10:13

LSS10999 Offline

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quigonhu wrote on 2024-07-04, 08:54:
Well, fisrt of all, it's definitely NOT a PIN to PIN replacement of these two chips! Quite similar, but not exactly the same! […]
Show full quote

Well, fisrt of all, it's definitely NOT a PIN to PIN replacement of these two chips! Quite similar, but not exactly the same!

Second of all, do you have experience with drawing the schematic and the layout? If not, maybe it's better not do the smartie thing.
There're at lease 2 other different definition pins between the two chips, PIN52 and PIN60.
And all the address pins should be confirmed. I found them should be the same. But it's better to double check it.

Then what are you going to do with the different pins( at leaset 4 pins )? My suggestion, there's a typical application diagram in the datasheet, just follow this design, normally it's safe.

I've already compared the pinouts of both ES1868F and ES1869F, and I think you mean pins 42 (CAP3D) and 60 (MODE).

Pin 42 is functionally different for ES1868 (VREF) and ES1869 (CAP3D) but for both chips that pin was meant to be connected to a bypass capacitor which then connects to analog ground. For ES1868 the datasheet suggested 0.1uF (100nF), but ES1869 datasheet did not specify a recommended value for CAP3D.

Pin 60 is MODE for ES1869. However, when it's connected to GND (this pin is GND for ES1868 anyway), it sets several other pins to the same function as ES1868. I don't think that's an issue for this board as all the pins in question are not used.

Reply 4 of 6, by mockingbird

Posted on 2024-07-04, 14:54

mockingbird Offline

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FWIW, I swapped an ES1868 with an ES1869 and it worked fine.

It was on this card:

The attachment es1868.webp is no longer available

(Decommissioned:)

Reply 5 of 6, by LSS10999

Posted on 2024-07-05, 00:43

LSS10999 Offline

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mockingbird wrote on 2024-07-04, 14:54:

FWIW, I swapped an ES1868 with an ES1869 and it worked fine.

It was on this card:

The attachment es1868.webp is no longer available

I think this is worth trying. Although the question regarding ES1869's MONO IN/OUT remains unanswered, if a card like yours works fine after replacing just the ES1868F with an ES1869F while leaving the rest unchanged, it's possible I do not have to worry about it...

Reply 6 of 6, by LSS10999

Posted on 2024-10-28, 01:23

LSS10999 Offline

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A late bump on this thread. The answer for now is yes, that ES1869 can be used in place of ES1868 on the PCB in question.

UNISOUND correctly initialized the card (I used /XEA as per the board's README.MD but did not test without). SBPro, Adlib and Wavetable playback worked fine as well.

Haven't tested other functionalities yet (e.g. 3D effects which is specific to ES1869 and was not available to ES1868), but most of the main functionalities are already working well. The problem is I need to add a suitable bracket for this card before I could actually put it into a case, and I don't know if there's any design that I could use to order a few. Tried brackets from a few other sound cards of mine and sadly they don't fit.

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