VOGONS


First post, by wbahnassi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Hi guys, I acquired a Dell OptiPlex 466 LE. The thing has a 486 DX2 66 CPU, external cache 0f 128KB, and 16MB RAM.

I added a sound card in it, and started testing some games, and found that it is behaving weirdly on certain games. Mortal Kombat 1 and Lemmings 2 mainly, and also Risky Woods.
In both MK and L2, music and sfx either work or don't.. mostly don't. Sometimes only music works, and sometimes only sfx, and most of the time neither. If music+sfx works, exiting the game then running it again will cause music+sfx to go away forever.. until I power cycle the machine, then the game of chance restarts.

Other games are totally OK. I tried Prince of Persia 1 and 2, Stunts, DOOM, SkyRoads, Island of Dr Brain, Conquests of Longbow, Terminator 2029. All are good and stable.

Some games are weird. Summer Challenge drops some sfx every now and then. Risky Woods has the jump sfx in chipmunk style (very funny).

All those games work fine on another 486 I have on the same sound cards I tried on this Dell.

Things I tried:
* Sound Blaster 16 ASP
* Sound Blaster Pro 2 (fixes Risky Woods)
* Sound Blaster 16 Vibra
* Change slots
* Change IRQ (5,7) Base address (220,240)
* Remove RAM (8MB, 16MB)
* Himem/Emm386 and vanilla (no Himem)
* Turbo ON/OFF
* Change HDDs (CF card vs. mechanical)
* Reserve sound card resources using Dell's ISA Configuration Utility
* Disable COM1/COM2/LPT1 ports in BIOS

What else could it be? This is the second machine I see that has weird sound compatibility issues (the first one was my Socket7 build). I feel I'm cursed. This is a branded machine so I was expecting good compatibility here... not some random "works once in a while" build.

If anyone has experience with this machine, let me know. I'd be grateful.

Thanks!

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 1 of 6, by wbahnassi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Update:
SoundBlaster AWE64 Value with Unisound works great for the problematic games. The ISA Configuration Utility also found the card and gave it IRQ5 and didn't allow me to choose IRQ7. Interesting...
I prefer to go to the SBPro2 honestly if possible, as I'm one of those who enjoy original OPL3 sound. I'll try some more, but it seems this mobo has an issue with non-PnP sound cards.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 2 of 6, by wbahnassi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

SB16-PnP also works fine. Tried hard tinkering with non-PnP cards but they all fail the same. So this is it.. off to find a PnP card with original OPL3 on it.
Hopefully I land on a cheap Vibra or SB16 PnP version that still has an OPL3. I don't care about MIDI as my original intention is to use a dedicated MPU card for MT-32 anyways.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 3 of 6, by b_riera

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have the older model without soft power before they called it Optiplex on the front case. It also might have a different chipset so not sure how much help this is to you but they probably have a very similar Phoenix BIOS for whatever that's worth. The cards I've used all have true OPL3. None are sought after nor expensive. I've experienced similar but not the same stuff as you. Mainly Duke Nukem 2 would outright freeze the computer with music and sound both enabled. This was an ADPCM bug in the sound blaster's DSP. The non PnP ones for me were the only ones that suffered from this as they had a particular DSP version I can't remember off hand. I had a couple of games where sound straight up wouldn't work - Wolfenstein 3D - and only on the SB16 value. Replacing/flashing a patched DSP seems to have fixed everything I was experiencing. Also, a lot of games have patches so you don't need to do any hardware mods but they're buried in posts here over the years so it can take time to find them.

The cards I have and have tested are:
SB16 CT2230 - Not fully PnP, a bit noisy until I swapped the DAC.

SB16 Value CT2770 - Decent card but I've had one short out and die (the 9V regulator for the amp).

Vibra 16S CT2860 - It's a later PnP card but it's very quiet for a sound blaster 16 and nothing ever crashed with this one for me. No option to get rid of the MIDI bugs nor does it have a Wavetable header but luckily for you neither of these are requirements. Also, I definitely remember being able to successfully change the IRQ using SET BLASTER when figuring out IRQ conflict woes with SCSI.

Lemmings 2 gave me a lot of grief but not with sound problems. It was actually the integrated Tseng video caused all sorts of graphical corruption and random crashes. Can't remember exactly what the solution was.

Reply 4 of 6, by b_riera

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Another benefit to replacing the DSP chip with a patched one is bug free MIDI but sounds like that's not something you need.

Reply 5 of 6, by wbahnassi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Thanks for confirming. I ordered a Vibra S CT2890 with OPL3 onboard to evade the problems. These later SB16s have compatibility issues with Sierra games and need an updated AUDBLAST driver to fix them. But as you said, it will be down to patching the games.. which is not terrible, just that I never had to do it in my previous custom 486 DX2 build.. that one spoiled me into thinking that all 486s are fully compatible with all software from its time. But I wanted to try a branded build because.. you know.. it has "style" 😅

I'll report back here once I get the Vibra S installed. And yes, I won't be running midi through it. That will go via MPU-IPC-T to an MT-32. I tried that already and thankfully it works fine.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 6 of 6, by wbahnassi

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Got a VibraS installed. It's PnP with OPL3. Alas, it behaves like all the other cards. On MK and Lemmings 2, no FM/no SFX even if the games claim they initialized sound successfully.

The only thing that seems to improve the chances of making those two games work, is to switch the CPU Speed setting in the BIOS from 66 to "Compatible". You can also toggle this using Ctrl+Alt+\ keyboard shortcut, and the machine will beep either a high note or a low note to indicate the current speed.

Anyways, with speed set to compatible, about 90% of the game runs result in good audio. Of course the PC becomes too slow as well, so I want to toggle back the speed after the sound init routines are done. The challenge there is to be able to do the speed toggle. Since there is no hardware turbo button, I am left with the key combo. In a game, this combo rarely works (I guess many games don't chain back the keyboard interrupt).

I discovered certain times in Lemmings 2 and Mortal Kombat where the speed switch is picked up. So I restore the speed at that point, and sound+music keeps running fine without issues.

I don't know why Dell calls this "Compatible" mode. Why would they make an incompatible mode in the first place? The mobo also only accepts a 50MHz or 66MHz DX-2. It refuses to go after POST if you put a standard 33 DX CPU (says a weird error on boot: Shutdown Failure). So I couldn't try considerably slower CPUs. But 50MHz also didn't solve the audio issues.

Any idea what compatibility mode is doing here? Those games run well with audio on much faster machines on all SB cards I have, so it's not something wrong in the games.

For the kicks, I probed the ISA bus clock and it was a solid 8MHz in both 66 and Compatible speed settings, just to rule out the possibility Dell is overclocking the ISA bus in 66 mode and causing compatibility issues due to that.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, Speedstar 24X, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti