Try UMBPCI.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/umbpci_e.html

Hello.

Do you have Stealth Mode enabled? Is F000-FFFF mapped for UMB?

If they are, strange issues arise.

dominusprog wrote on 2024-06-29, 12:06:

Try UMBPCI.

https://www.uwe-sieber.de/umbpci_e.html

UMBPCI doesn't provide EMS and some DOS games uses it to handle digitized sounds. 😜

Gmlb256 wrote on 2024-06-29, 14:00:

Hello.

Do you have Stealth Mode enabled? Is F000-FFFF mapped for UMB?

If they are, strange issues arise.

How can I find out if I have Stealth Mode enabled or F000-FFFF mapped for UMB, please?

The game does, indeed, need EMS for digital audio effects.

vanfanel wrote on 2024-06-29, 16:41:

How can I find out if I have Stealth Mode enabled or F000-FFFF mapped for UMB, please?

In CONFIG.SYS, on the line where QEMM gets loaded, check the parameters.

There should be ST:M or ST:F if Stealth Mode is enabled.

As for F000-FFFF, QEMM by default will try to map that memory region which is reserved for the motherboard BIOS ROM. To exclude it, add X=F000-FFFF parameter.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2024-06-29, 16:52:

In CONFIG.SYS, on the line where QEMM gets loaded, check the parameters.

There should be ST:M or ST:F if Stealth Mode is enabled.

As for F000-FFFF, QEMM by default will try to map that memory region which is reserved for the motherboard BIOS ROM. To exclude it, add X=F000-FFFF parameter.

I had no mention to ST:M or ST:F in config.sys, so I added X=F000-FFFF to QEMM.
My config.sys looks like this:

1DEVICE=C:\QEMM\DOSDATA.SYS                                                                                                             
2SET LOADHIDATA=C:\QEMM\LOADHI.RF                                                                                                       
3DEVICE=C:\QEMM\QEMM386.SYS RAM BE:N RF X=F000-FFFF                                                                                     
4DEVICE=C:\QEMM\DOS-UP.SYS @C:\QEMM\DOS-UP.DAT                                                                                          
5SHELL=C:\QEMM\LOADHI.COM /RF C:\COMMAND.COM /E:2048 /P                                                                                 
6DOS=HIGH,UMB                                                                                                                           
7FILES=60                                                                                                                               
8BUFFERS=40                                                                                                                             
9STACKS=9,256

But game keeps crashing. After adding X=F000-FFFF, with exception 13 instead of 6.

Ahhh Lemmings 2... my bane... As much as I love this game as much as it hates me.

Yes, it's one of the toughest to get to run with proper music and SFX. Back in its days I was only able to run it with QEMM on my 386 DX-33. Now, I find I'm able to run it with EMM386 on various systems from slow to fast. I guess it really depends on the memory layout of each machine.

I was able to get it to run with SB, SBPro, SB16, and YMF-744 (PCI). That last one was a surprise actually given how finicky the game is. What is your audio hardware? Also, how are you running the game? Is it the copy with L2-FIX.COM? That one will hang if it's run via L2.EXE.

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-06-29, 19:23:

Ahhh Lemmings 2... my bane... As much as I love this game as much as it hates me.

Yes, it's one of the toughest to get to run with proper music and SFX. Back in its days I was only able to run it with QEMM on my 386 DX-33. Now, I find I'm able to run it with EMM386 on various systems from slow to fast. I guess it really depends on the memory layout of each machine.

I was able to get it to run with SB, SBPro, SB16, and YMF-744 (PCI). That last one was a surprise actually given how finicky the game is. What is your audio hardware? Also, how are you running the game? Is it the copy with L2-FIX.COM? That one will hang if it's run via L2.EXE.

Hello wbahnassi! Another Lemmings 2 lover here (liked 1 better, but 2 has an special place on my heart because of how I unexpectedly got the game and liked it back in the day)

My sound hardware is an SBPro compatible card in the form of on-board CS4237B chip. I think it's 100% SBPro compatible, no other game seems to have problems with it.
The game DOES work without EMS, but then there are no audio effects, since those depend on EMS.

About how I run it: I use a version that says "This has been a +/FED-X/+ assisted production" when quitting the game. I believe it's the version included in EXODOS.
I also tried the version with l2-fix.com, which must be run by executing l2-fix.com instead of l2.exe, but it hangs on the same exact "Initializing sound." message.

I also tried the CD version (it was released here in Europe along with Lemmings 1 on CD) which doesn't need to be cracked, but hangs in the exact same manner.

Ok. Things to try:
* Limit EMS memory to 2MB (2048 in EMM386)
* Change IRQ of sound chip (if possible)
* Remove any drivers except QEMM/EMM and mouse
* Try another mouse driver (a far possibility, but hey)
* Slow down machine (disable L1 cache)

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-06-30, 12:50:

Ok. Things to try: * Limit EMS memory to 2MB (2048 in EMM386) * Change IRQ of sound chip (if possible) * Remove any drivers exce […]
Show full quote

Ok. Things to try:
* Limit EMS memory to 2MB (2048 in EMM386)
* Change IRQ of sound chip (if possible)
* Remove any drivers except QEMM/EMM and mouse
* Try another mouse driver (a far possibility, but hey)
* Slow down machine (disable L1 cache)

How do I limit EMS memory to 2048 in EMM386?
I can' see It on the parameters. Using Himemx it's possible, but that's introducing another variable...

it is very easy, just write 2048 after emm386.exe , example: device=c:\dos\emm386.exe 2048 <and whatever other options you might use>

keropi wrote on 2024-06-30, 15:10:

it is very easy, just write 2048 after emm386.exe , example: device=c:\dos\emm386.exe 2048 <and whatever other options you might use>

Ah, thanks. Yes, with that, mem reports 2048 KB of EMS only.
However, Lemmings 2 still hangs with "Sound Initialising" 🙁
Since this is a Pentium-class CPU, I disabled it's caches, but it didn't help either.

So, as per wbahnassi's suggestions:
* Limit EMS memory to 2MB (2048 in EMM386) - Done, same problem
* Change IRQ of sound chip (if possible) -Changed to IRQ 5 (UNISOUND uses the IRQ that I specify on the BLASTER env variable, and if I don't specify any, it uses IRQ 5. But it didn0t help either.
* Remove any drivers except QEMM/EMM and mouse -Done, same problem. I removed all except the UNISOUND driver, but game hangs at the same spot.
* Try another mouse driver (a far possibility, but hey) -Well, it hangs without any mouse driver loaded, so...
* Slow down machine (disable L1 cache) - Done, same problem.

I believe there's something wrong with the Vortex86 SOM memory layout, but that's something I don't know how to debug or what can be done.

Yes the game requires a mouse. I was suggesting trying a different driver rather than disabling the driver. If you were using ctmouse, try GMouse (most compatible with Lemmings 2), or MOUSE.COM (Microsoft). Anyways, it's a slim chance that this would be your problem.

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-06-29, 19:23:

Ahhh Lemmings 2... my bane... As much as I love this game as much as it hates me.

Yes, it's one of the toughest to get to run with proper music and SFX. Back in its days I was only able to run it with QEMM on my 386 DX-33. Now, I find I'm able to run it with EMM386 on various systems from slow to fast. I guess it really depends on the memory layout of each machine.

I was able to get it to run with SB, SBPro, SB16, and YMF-744 (PCI). That last one was a surprise actually given how finicky the game is. What is your audio hardware? Also, how are you running the game? Is it the copy with L2-FIX.COM? That one will hang if it's run via L2.EXE.

You can run Lemmings 2 without needing L2-FIX.COM. Do the following:

1. Navigate to your Lemmings 2: The Tribes game folder.

2. Open the file L2.INI in your text editor of choice.

3. Change the Bios value to 732 and the Boot value to 0.

4. Save L2.INI and close the file.

5. Run L2.EXE in Dosbox as normal.

This is also documented at https://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?showID=383&letter=L.

MasterO wrote on 2024-07-18, 03:18:

You can run Lemmings 2 without needing L2-FIX.COM. Do the following: […]
Show full quote

wbahnassi wrote on 2024-06-29, 19:23:

Ahhh Lemmings 2... my bane... As much as I love this game as much as it hates me.

Yes, it's one of the toughest to get to run with proper music and SFX. Back in its days I was only able to run it with QEMM on my 386 DX-33. Now, I find I'm able to run it with EMM386 on various systems from slow to fast. I guess it really depends on the memory layout of each machine.

I was able to get it to run with SB, SBPro, SB16, and YMF-744 (PCI). That last one was a surprise actually given how finicky the game is. What is your audio hardware? Also, how are you running the game? Is it the copy with L2-FIX.COM? That one will hang if it's run via L2.EXE.

You can run Lemmings 2 without needing L2-FIX.COM. Do the following:

1. Navigate to your Lemmings 2: The Tribes game folder.

2. Open the file L2.INI in your text editor of choice.

3. Change the Bios value to 732 and the Boot value to 0.

4. Save L2.INI and close the file.

5. Run L2.EXE in Dosbox as normal.

This is also documented at https://www.dosbox.com/comp_list.php?showID=383&letter=L.

I think he is trying to run in a real system. Not within Dosbox.

Seems like this whole issue is a compatibility error with the Vortex86 CPU..

Try using only Himem.sys and EMSMAGIC.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2024-07-20, 09:37:

Try using only Himem.sys and EMSMAGIC.

That was a very good idea.
Doing that, the game doesn't hang in the sound initialization anymore, but then it shows corrupt graphics instead and hangs there.
I have to pass "/frame=dc00" to emsmagic, other frame addresses like c000 have similar results... Corrupt graphics.

Also, it says things like:
Page frame at DC00h
(WARNING: Page frame is not writable!)

If I don't pass a /frame parameter, emsmagic puts the ems page frame in conventional memory, which is then reduced to 545KB free, and the game won't run because of the lack of conventional memory.

Maybe the UMA is full on the Vortex86 SOM? Is there a way to tell?

JEMMEX puts it's frame in dc00, so it should be a free address...shouldn't it?

I have attached a picture of the memory status of this machine according to the MEMSTAT tool from the JEMM project.

Do you guys see something strange that could be preventing EMS to work correctly?

UMBPCI + HIRAM + HIMEM + if needed EMSMAGIC. This confoguration works for me for most DOS games. Only Windows 1.x/2.x somehow do not like the EMS that emsmagic provides.