Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-07-23, 17:35:

VivienM wrote on 2024-07-23, 02:41:

People didn't use 5.25" floppies on a Dell L series - this was the computer you got your elderly aunt or grandmother because she wanted to 'surf the web'. 5.25" drives stopped being standard on new PCs around 1994-5; by ~1999-2000 which is when these low end i810 systems rolled around, almost no one would have used 5.25" floppies.

So I got a granny pc? 😆
Is there any way I can make it a bit less granny and more ultimate retro rig?

Air brush flames, dragons and armored knights on war horses all over the case!

[/quote]
Air brush flames, dragons and armored knights on war horses all over the case!
[/quote]

Hell yeah! I'll try to get some decals

I jacked up the quoting dang it

Check BIOS to see if you can have multiple floppy drives. Pretty sure Intel (who made this motherboard for Dell) dropped support starting with the slot motherboards which predate this.

If it does support multiple drives you should see a screen something like this where you can select the drive type for both A and B drives. If not it'll only show Drive A:

But as others have said even 386 and 486's would often not bother with the 5.25 drive from new, makes little sense to have one on a late model P3

I'm not familiar with that exact system - any chance you can open up the space under the CD to fit a drive?

If not, are you running an OS that supports USB drives? Fairly easy to get a USB DVD drive and open up
that bay.

Having worked with a number of folks configuring ImageDisk systems, I have a fair bit of experience in getting
floppy drives working in "odd" configurations.

How often do you need to 5.25" floppy?
If your MB supports two floppies (many do) - it's fairly easy to bring out cables (FDC and power) to be able
to connect a 5.25" drive when you need it (if rarely, you might not even want to bother with an enclosure).

You'll need an FDC cable extension with a male connector on one end, and
a female on the other. Just change the existing cable from the MB to one which
supports both 3.5 and 5.25 coming out the back, and use the extension to plug the
internal drive into that cable, and the external 5.25 into the other position on it as
well.

If your MB supports only one drive, bring the FDC out the back with the
extension and swap internal 3.5 and external 5.25 cables to it as required.

(Technically these cable arrangements might not meet noise specs. but I've
had good luck with such arrangements many times).

And even simpler option if you can easily remove the side - just use one dual
cable and move it from the internal drive to the external one as needed.

(and just for completeness - only move these cables with the system powered off)

Dave Dunfield - https://dunfield.themindfactory.com

You could always put a Gotek floppy emulator in that 3.5” drive bay under the CD drive.

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-07-24, 03:24:

I'm not familiar with that exact system - any chance you can open up the space under the CD to fit a drive?

That specific chassis only allows one 5.25" and two 3.5" drives, with the lower 3.5" reserved for floppy only due to front panel design (personally I hate those "fat outer shell" front panel designs created by Mac 128K and copied introduced to PC-compatible market by the original dark green Acer Aspire). In order to install a 5.25" floppy the thread starter has to either sacrifice the CD drive, find another chassis, or look for an external CD solution: parallel (very slow), SCSI (requires additional hardware and software), or USB (requires later OS or specialized software like DOSUSB).

This system is far from optimal for retro pc for the era of 5.25 floppy drives. Not worth the trouble and all you get is the glorious sound of sqeekity clunkity boing of the old floppy drive. You can still have fun with the pc I guess though but personally I would get something more fitting.

Joakim wrote on 2024-07-24, 08:58:

This system is far from optimal for retro pc for the era of 5.25 floppy drives. Not worth the trouble and all you get is the glorious sound of sqeekity clunkity boing of the old floppy drive. You can still have fun with the pc I guess though but personally I would get something more fitting.

Seconded. With no ISA, no AGP, and the ATX-lookalike proprietary power supply, the system was designed for neither DOS nor gaming.

dormcat wrote on 2024-07-24, 09:49:

Joakim wrote on 2024-07-24, 08:58:

This system is far from optimal for retro pc for the era of 5.25 floppy drives. Not worth the trouble and all you get is the glorious sound of sqeekity clunkity boing of the old floppy drive. You can still have fun with the pc I guess though but personally I would get something more fitting.

Seconded. With no ISA, no AGP, and the ATX-lookalike proprietary power supply, the system was designed for neither DOS nor gaming.

Trust me sir, I will make something EPIC out of this pc. Whatever jank there is shall be overcome and I shall create an AWESOME gaming pc for dos and Windows. I'm getting an SB Live 0060 today and one day I'll make my video card work to its full capacity. If I need to switch from 5.25 to 3.5 floppy every time I use one, I'll do it. My pc runs Dosbox really slow and that would be good for 80s 5.25 floppy games.
I got hope bro

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-07-24, 03:24:

I'm not familiar with that exact system - any chance you can open up the space under the CD to fit a drive? […]
Show full quote

I'm not familiar with that exact system - any chance you can open up the space under the CD to fit a drive?

If not, are you running an OS that supports USB drives? Fairly easy to get a USB DVD drive and open up
that bay.

Having worked with a number of folks configuring ImageDisk systems, I have a fair bit of experience in getting
floppy drives working in "odd" configurations.

How often do you need to 5.25" floppy?
If your MB supports two floppies (many do) - it's fairly easy to bring out cables (FDC and power) to be able
to connect a 5.25" drive when you need it (if rarely, you might not even want to bother with an enclosure).

You'll need an FDC cable extension with a male connector on one end, and
a female on the other. Just change the existing cable from the MB to one which
supports both 3.5 and 5.25 coming out the back, and use the extension to plug the
internal drive into that cable, and the external 5.25 into the other position on it as
well.

If your MB supports only one drive, bring the FDC out the back with the
extension and swap internal 3.5 and external 5.25 cables to it as required.

(Technically these cable arrangements might not meet noise specs. but I've
had good luck with such arrangements many times).

And even simpler option if you can easily remove the side - just use one dual
cable and move it from the internal drive to the external one as needed.

(and just for completeness - only move these cables with the system powered off)

Dave Dunfield - https://dunfield.themindfactory.com

I think my pc only has one floppy but maybe I could switch it out. Thanks for all the info

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-07-24, 14:25:

I think my pc only has one floppy but maybe I could switch it out. Thanks for all the info

Ok, here's a few more ideas with photos...
(I don't know how "handy" you are at making things .. be advised that you're
talking to a guy who "builds stuff" all-the-time)

While downsizing (to move closer to civilization), I let my original ImageDisk
system (the one I developed it on) go - enough people have wanted me to
continue supporting it that I put to together another one:

-----
SYSTEM.JPG - this is it! I didn't have a spare old AT-style case, so I built
it on the piece of wood you see. (I also wanted it tp be small)

-A few things to note:
The "twist" in the floppy cable is in the middle, so the "internal" 3.5 is
drive A: and the end of the cable is drive B: (where it swap in/out drives)

Beside it are the three drive types I normally use on it: 8" 5.25" and 3.5"
(The 5.25 is an HD modified with switch on front to change from 360<>300 RPM
- needed to read some single density formats - not important here)

The little power supply between drives and system is a 12v I "add" to the
system 12v rail to get the 24v needed by 8" drives - It is powered via the
monitor power connector on the AT supple - note that anyone doing this
MUST make sure that it's output is not referenced to system ground in
ANY WAY - it's "ground" is at 12v relative to the system.

The "switch box" as a DPDT to disconnect BOTH 5V as 12/24v from
the drives (so I can swap them).

-----
ADAPTER.JPG - Various adapters I use to attach various drives/cables.
Top left - couple commercial 5.25" <> 3.5" adapters
Top middle - one I made to attach extension cable to 5.25" cnct. (*)
Top right - at one time I had a carrier which let you mount a 3.5" drive in
.. a 5.25" bay - it's long gone, but I kept the adapter board.
Bottom left - Adapter I made to connect 8" drive to 5.25" cnct. (*)
Bottom middle - Connects two 5.25 drive-side (I added signal monitor pins)
Bottom right - adapt 5.25" power to 3.5" drive
(*) Simpler than they look - drive pin-outs a all ground on one side!

-----
EXTCABL.JPG - Cables I made to attach drives external to a "standard" system:
- Bottom goes in sysm right is MB connector, middle as internal drive A:
.. connectors (note "twists"), left is 37pin 'D' connector for back of sys.
- Top is cable to connect drives (only 5.25" - see ADAPTER.JPG)

-----
Hopefully this might give you some ideas.
Dave Dunfield - https://dunfield.themindfactory.com

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-07-24, 14:23:

Trust me sir, I will make something EPIC out of this pc. Whatever jank there is shall be overcome and I shall create an AWESOME gaming pc for dos and Windows. I'm getting an SB Live 0060 today and one day I'll make my video card work to its full capacity. If I need to switch from 5.25 to 3.5 floppy every time I use one, I'll do it. My pc runs Dosbox really slow and that would be good for 80s 5.25 floppy games.
I got hope bro

Just curious: which game(s) must you play with 5.25" floppy? I searched all games you had mentioned on VOGONS and noticed that you were particularly interested in FPS games of mid- to late-1990s:

(Game, Release date, Minimum CPU, RAM, HDD, Video, ODD)
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold, 1993/12/05, 386DX-20, 640KB, 8MB, VGA, N/A
Rise of the Triad: Dark War, 1995/02/17, 386DX-40, 4MB, 20MB, VGA, N/A
Strife, 1996/05/03, 486DX2-66, 8MB, 70MB, VGA, CD-ROM
Quake, 1996/06/22, Pentium 75, 8MB, 80MB, VGA, 2x CD-ROM
Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition, 1996/12/11, 486DX2-66, 8MB, 47MB, VGA, CD-ROM
Blood, 1997/05/21, Pentium 75, 16MB, 80MB, VGA, 4x CD-ROM
Unreal Gold, 1999/06, Pentium II-233, 32MB, 100MB, 4MB (software rendering) or 8MB (3D accelerated) VRAM

You've also mentioned some non-FPS games:

Wing Commander, 1990/09/26, 286-12, 640KB, 5MB, EGA, N/A
Magic Carpet, 1994/05/06, 486DX4-100, 8MB, 150MB, VGA, 2x CD-ROM
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, 1996/09/20, 486DX2-50, 8MB, 30MB, VGA on local bus (VLB or PCI), 2x CD-ROM

Wing Commander was the only game using 5.25" floppy as the original media of distribution, and you probably acquired it through GOG instead of having the original diskettes (for the record, the originals are collectors' items today and anyone who has a working copy would rather keep them in a dry, cool, dark, and safe environment instead of repeated usage). If you MUST play all games on one single computer than I'd recommend a Super Socket 7 motherboard with K6-III, along with your current Diamond Stealth III S540 (S3 Savage4 Pro) and an ISA sound card with an OPL3 chip. Your Dell Dimension L1000R is simply too new for Wing Commander or any game of the 1980s.

Furthermore, if you use DOSBox or similar emulators, why not just play them on your modern Win11 computer then? Games of the 1980s receive no benefit from a PCI sound card; they prefer either OPL2/3 chip or MT-32.

If you still insist using your current build...... I wish you luck. 😏

dormcat wrote on 2024-07-24, 20:11:

Just curious: which game(s) must you play with 5.25" floppy? I searched all games you had mentioned on VOGONS and noticed that y […]
Show full quote

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-07-24, 14:23:

Trust me sir, I will make something EPIC out of this pc. Whatever jank there is shall be overcome and I shall create an AWESOME gaming pc for dos and Windows. I'm getting an SB Live 0060 today and one day I'll make my video card work to its full capacity. If I need to switch from 5.25 to 3.5 floppy every time I use one, I'll do it. My pc runs Dosbox really slow and that would be good for 80s 5.25 floppy games.
I got hope bro

Just curious: which game(s) must you play with 5.25" floppy? I searched all games you had mentioned on VOGONS and noticed that you were particularly interested in FPS games of mid- to late-1990s:

(Game, Release date, Minimum CPU, RAM, HDD, Video, ODD)
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold, 1993/12/05, 386DX-20, 640KB, 8MB, VGA, N/A
Rise of the Triad: Dark War, 1995/02/17, 386DX-40, 4MB, 20MB, VGA, N/A
Strife, 1996/05/03, 486DX2-66, 8MB, 70MB, VGA, CD-ROM
Quake, 1996/06/22, Pentium 75, 8MB, 80MB, VGA, 2x CD-ROM
Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition, 1996/12/11, 486DX2-66, 8MB, 47MB, VGA, CD-ROM
Blood, 1997/05/21, Pentium 75, 16MB, 80MB, VGA, 4x CD-ROM
Unreal Gold, 1999/06, Pentium II-233, 32MB, 100MB, 4MB (software rendering) or 8MB (3D accelerated) VRAM

You've also mentioned some non-FPS games:

Wing Commander, 1990/09/26, 286-12, 640KB, 5MB, EGA, N/A
Magic Carpet, 1994/05/06, 486DX4-100, 8MB, 150MB, VGA, 2x CD-ROM
The Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall, 1996/09/20, 486DX2-50, 8MB, 30MB, VGA on local bus (VLB or PCI), 2x CD-ROM

Wing Commander was the only game using 5.25" floppy as the original media of distribution, and you probably acquired it through GOG instead of having the original diskettes (for the record, the originals are collectors' items today and anyone who has a working copy would rather keep them in a dry, cool, dark, and safe environment instead of repeated usage). If you MUST play all games on one single computer than I'd recommend a Super Socket 7 motherboard with K6-III, along with your current Diamond Stealth III S540 (S3 Savage4 Pro) and an ISA sound card with an OPL3 chip. Your Dell Dimension L1000R is simply too new for Wing Commander or any game of the 1980s.

Furthermore, if you use DOSBox or similar emulators, why not just play them on your modern Win11 computer then? Games of the 1980s receive no benefit from a PCI sound card; they prefer either OPL2/3 chip or MT-32.

If you still insist using your current build...... I wish you luck. 😏

I don't got enough money or space for another old pc. A super socket 7 board would be awesome though. I have the 3.5 floppy version of Wing Commander. Fps games are my favorite genre but I like all types of old games