VOGONS


First post, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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For fellow Vogons ebayers, here's the news.

Online auction site eBay has said it plans to overhaul its feedback system and will ban sellers from leaving negative comments a […]
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Online auction site eBay has said it plans to overhaul its feedback system and will ban sellers from leaving negative comments about buyers.

EBay said problems were occurring, and slowing down trade, when buyers left negative comments about sellers who then retaliated with their own views.

From May, those selling on eBay will not be able to leave unfavourable or neutral messages about buyers.

The move, which will affect users worldwide, has angered many sellers.

Sellers say it will leave them unprotected.

Tricky customers

Critics of the changes argue that by taking away a seller's right to complain about a problem buyer they will have very little recourse for action when a sale goes wrong.

And they complain that by still allowing buyers to leave dissenting comments about sellers, eBay has skewed the whole trading process. When both sides have equal access and rights to leave negative comments about each other it is a well balanced trading process, they say. However, eBay counters that problem buyers can still be dealt with.

"If a buyer doesn't pay, the seller can easily contact eBay, we will review any complaint and maybe remove the buyer," a spokesman said.

The changes aim to "improve the overall customer experience", eBay said.

It added that many buyers would not leave negative comments for fear that sellers would retaliate.

As a result, buyers and sellers may not get a fair picture of what is actually happening between trading parties.

It maintains that the majority of transactions go "swimmingly".

EBay says that only a minority of sellers leave negative feedback for buyers.

So whaddya think? While it sounds unfair to allow only buyers to leave negative feedback, thus leaving sellers unprotected, as an ebay buyer myself I have to admit that the current feedback system makes buyer reluctant to leave honest (albeit negative) feedback, out of fear of negative retaliatory feedback. In fact, there were times when I, as buyer, left positive feedback for bad sellers, simply because I want to keep my own record perfectly clean. At least the new feedback system will keep shady sellers from downgrading buyer's ratings for pedantic bullshit reasons.

Furthermore, in a system where "buyer pays first" instead of "seller ships first", it is reasonable that the buyers should get bigger protection.

Things being said, there should be a way to protect sellers from buyer that just want to "test the water"; if a buyer makes a US $1000 bid on your auction and win, then tells you to go fuck yourself (or your mother) when you ask for payment, then the system should prevent such cases. Thus, I completely agree if the system penalizes non-paying bidder.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 1 of 15, by MiniMax

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I think it is unfair to the sellers. Why would a negative comment affect me? If I win the bid, pay the price, why on Earth would a seller care about my past negative comments?

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Reply 2 of 15, by Dominus

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On the other hand I'm getting tired of sellers waiting for MY positive feedback before they give me positive feedback. Really, Im winning an auction and I'm paying, all the seller should give feedback on is whether I pay and how fast I payed. Waiting until I gave my feedback is just waiting whether I give bad feedback and then take revenge.

If I win the bid, pay the price, why on Earth would a seller care about my past negative comments?

Why have a feedback system at all then? Why the need for sellers to leave negative feedback when they shouldn't care about past negative comments?

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Reply 3 of 15, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Dominus wrote:

On the other hand I'm getting tired of sellers waiting for MY positive feedback before they give me positive feedback.

I definitely share your sentiments here. In fact, there was a seller who did not leave me any feedback at all, despite I made the payment very quickly, left him a positive feedback immediately after the item arrived, and notified him about the fact.

Dominus wrote:

Really, Im winning an auction and I'm paying, all the seller should give feedback on is whether I pay and how fast I payed.

Precisely.

Dominus wrote:

Waiting until I gave my feedback is just waiting whether I give bad feedback and then take revenge.

Coincidentally, such vengeance-motivated sellers also happen to be seller with many bad records. And judging from the feedback description, those negative feedbacks left by buyers are not pedantic shits like what they left on disappointed buyers.

On the other hand, sellers with perfect (or almost perfect) records, like this jolly good fellow who sold me a pair of Voodoo5 Macs, do not wait for buyer's feedback. I got my positive feedback right after he received my payment, which is fair and square in my book.

Well of course the items have not arrived yet, but the fact that he left me positive feedbacks without waiting for mine first convinces me that he's a straightforward, honest seller. For instance, if the packages are late, I can safely assume that it is the Post Office's fault instead of the seller ripping me off on S/H cost.

MiniMax wrote:

I think it is unfair to the sellers. Why would a negative comment affect me? If I win the bid, pay the price, why on Earth would a seller care about my past negative comments?

Based on my experience, sellers care about buyer's feedback sometimes. For example, there are sellers who refuse to sell to buyers without less than XX positive feedbacks. There are also sellers who refuse to sell to buyers who don't have 100% positive feedback. Such cases are quite rare though.

However, in case of me, feedbacks mean everything. See, I'm an Indonesian living in Indonesia --a country notoriously reputed for Carders and Scammers. Many times I need to convince sellers to ship to my country (especially when the item is Voodoo5 5500 😉 ), and my biggest trump card is always my feedbacks. For instance, there was a seller who only shipped to the US and initially refused to ship to my country, but changed his mind after he saw my feedbacks. In fact, I have convinced many sellers who originally did not ship abroad to ship to my country.

But that also means that sometimes I have no choice but leaving positive feedbacks on bad sellers, like the one who ripped me off on S/H cost. See, the Audio CD took twice the amount of shipping time it took for another CD I bought from a different seller, with twice the amount of S/H costs! Now what would you call it, if not rip off? Unfortunately, I could not take the risk of give the seller at least neutral feedback, because the seller waited for my feedback first before leaving me one.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 4 of 15, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Update:

Well I just never thought that the banning of sellers from leaving negative feedback would create such backlash.

See, this guy is one of my favorite sellers on ebay. He has helped me getting many items whose seller wouldn't ship abroad (including three Voodoo5 Mac and an Epox 8KTA3+ ISA motherboard), and has become a good friend of mine.

Now, from his recent email, he told me that he's boycotting ebay. He is definitely NOT one of those "shady sellers" who love to leave negative feedbacks on disappointed buyers; not at all. In fact, he is a very honest and trustable sellers.

Well, alright. Now I'm trying to see it from the other side. Maybe it's kinda unfair to keep sellers from leaving buyers negative feedback. In fact, I have already said that the system need to protect sellers from non-paying, or otherwise shady, buyers.

So I'm actually thinking about the alternative: what if ebay changes the system in such way, that buyers are only allowed to leave feedback after receiving feedback from sellers? Thus, sellers need to leave feedback first before they can expect to get feedback from buyers.

Whaddya think? Thoughts? Opinion?

Last edited by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman on 2008-02-16, 18:32. Edited 1 time in total.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 5 of 15, by Dominus

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So I'm actually thinking about the alternative: what if ebay changes the system in such way, that buyers are only allowed to leave feedback after receiving feedback from sellers? Thus, sellers need to leave feedback first before they can expect to get feedback from buyers.

You didn't think this through at all, did you? This would work very well for bad sellers. Think! You win an auction, you send money, you never receive anything and you are not allowed to post this in the feedback? Back to the drawing board with you 😀

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Reply 6 of 15, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Dominus wrote:

So I'm actually thinking about the alternative: what if ebay changes the system in such way, that buyers are only allowed to leave feedback after receiving feedback from sellers? Thus, sellers need to leave feedback first before they can expect to get feedback from buyers.

You didn't think this through at all, did you? This would work very well for bad sellers. Think! You win an auction, you send money, you never receive anything and you are not allowed to post this in the feedback? Back to the drawing board with you 😀

Well my suggestion above is based on "people are good" assumption. In case of fraudulent seller who never send the item, then the buyer can report to ebay, then ebay should take punitive measure.

EDIT: by the way, I'm thinking about some sort of "shit" rating that can only given by ebay as mediator, which is reserved for non-sending sellers and non-paying buyers. So if a particular seller already has "five shits", for example, it means that the seller has not sent the item five times, etc.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 7 of 15, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Alright, anyone noticed the ebay boycott lately?

I heard sellers were going to boycott ebay from February 18 to Feb 25. In fact, a seller told me that the number of items being listed has dropped by tens of thousands.

Such boycott should be noticeable, yet ebay is still damn crowded as usual. For instance, there's still a lot of PC games to be found, and PC3200 RAM is still easy to find as well.

So.... huh?

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 8 of 15, by Snover

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CNNMoney is reporting a 3% decrease in listings.

Yes, it’s my fault.

Reply 10 of 15, by serimar

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could try alternatives to ebay here in my town the computer shop has a technology auction site. but they have a cat for all other items and no fees till 2009 dont know bout the rules here. but tech-bidz sure u can fiq out the rest

Reply 11 of 15, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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serimar wrote:

could try alternatives to ebay here in my town the computer shop has a technology auction site. but they have a cat for all other items and no fees till 2009 dont know bout the rules here. but tech-bidz sure u can fiq out the rest

Do they ship internationally?

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 12 of 15, by serimar

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that would depend on the seller. they do have a contest going on right now first person to reach 5000 positive feedback rating wins a 2009 camaro. or anything else u want up to the value of the camaro.

Reply 15 of 15, by Snover

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Gosh, ends in a Z, that just screams quality and "not a scam".

Yes, it’s my fault.