vetz wrote on 2024-07-25, 17:47:

When you get it booting I'd love to see some benchmarks to compare it to my DX machine. Your machine have 16kb more cache and is of a newer design.

Here's the benchmarks I ran. Not going to win any awards but I'm glad this board is functional some thirty years after being discarded.

Dude that's awesome. We have the same machine! I'm so glad someone else is talking about this machine, haha. I was the first one to upload the pics to TRW for this machine. I also uploaded the two BIOS you see there in my entry. 3.2C and 2.9B.

I have a few of these machines and I was successful in putting the universal BIOS onto an option ROM on a NIC. It seemed to work fine and dandy with the other Z386SX.

I kinda wish I had that video card that came with the machine. The manual says it is a Z-549-A. Strange thing though is that even though I have several of this exact machine, they all came with a Western Digital video card.

vetz wrote on 2024-07-03, 21:21:

User manual just sold on Ebay. I hope the person who bought it will scan & upload it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326155497545

I was the guy who bought it haha 😀

Since I got this machine a few years back, I would occasionally search online for the manual but no matter how hard I tried (a few hours searching each attempt, easily) nothing came up. Finally a few weeks ago when I was doing a search I came across an eBay listing for the manual. I said to myself "to heck with it, I'll just BUY the damn thing since it is nowhere to be found online!". Shipping to Canada hurts my soul but I'm glad that I have it now. Having a scan of it would have been fine (it appears you scanned in the other manuals) but having a physical copy is kind of cool. I have placed it next to the machine and referenced it so many times since it arrived. I'm so glad you had this!

Have you come across anywhere in the manuals for these machines with the riser where it details how to interpret the LEDs? I'm also wondering what difference does it make by switching the jumper around between DIAG and CHECK on the riser. This affects which lights come on. Oh and finally, why oh why doesn't the manual tell us what the beep codes are for these machines!?

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-07-28, 16:27:

I cleaned up the prototype and here's the final version of the ATZ-ZDS12 power adapter -

That looks like a professional product. Impressive!

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-07-28, 16:41:

Here's the benchmarks I ran. Not going to win any awards but I'm glad this board is functional some thirty years after being discarded.

That's exactly the same FPS in 3DBench 1.0 that I got on my 20mhz DX using the Western Digital VGA card that came with it. Increased to 8.0 with an ET4000AX & ATI Mach32.

Did you figure out the pinout for the P106 connector?

My theory is that it could be based on one of the connector in another machine. See examples below.

geiger9 wrote on 2024-07-30, 21:51:

I was the guy who bought it haha :) […]
Show full quote

vetz wrote on 2024-07-03, 21:21:

User manual just sold on Ebay. I hope the person who bought it will scan & upload it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/326155497545

I was the guy who bought it haha 😀

Since I got this machine a few years back, I would occasionally search online for the manual but no matter how hard I tried (a few hours searching each attempt, easily) nothing came up. Finally a few weeks ago when I was doing a search I came across an eBay listing for the manual. I said to myself "to heck with it, I'll just BUY the damn thing since it is nowhere to be found online!". Shipping to Canada hurts my soul but I'm glad that I have it now. Having a scan of it would have been fine (it appears you scanned in the other manuals) but having a physical copy is kind of cool. I have placed it next to the machine and referenced it so many times since it arrived. I'm so glad you had this!

Have you come across anywhere in the manuals for these machines with the riser where it details how to interpret the LEDs? I'm also wondering what difference does it make by switching the jumper around between DIAG and CHECK on the riser. This affects which lights come on. Oh and finally, why oh why doesn't the manual tell us what the beep codes are for these machines!?

Nice! Another user manual also just popped up on Ebay and Many Bothans bought it. I'm curious if there is alot of difference in the content between the service manual and the user manual? Would you mind expand on that?

geiger9 wrote on 2024-07-30, 21:51:

Have you come across anywhere in the manuals for these machines with the riser where it details how to interpret the LEDs? I'm also wondering what difference does it make by switching the jumper around between DIAG and CHECK on the riser. This affects which lights come on. Oh and finally, why oh why doesn't the manual tell us what the beep codes are for these machines!?

Yes, the LEDs seems to work similar across all Zenith models from this time period. The jumper changes the function of them from diagnostic to binary. I don't know how to interpret the binary codes. If something fails it normally displays the error on the screen (as long as it has passed the basic ones such as CPU/clocks, etc).

As the computer powers up, the entire row of LEDs lights and then, one by one, go out. As each LED goes out, it indicates that the computer has passed a portion of the internal power-up tests. If the computer is configured to autoboot, only the PWR LED will remain lit. If a Monitor prompt appears on the display, the RDY and PWR LEDs remain lit. The status LEDs are used in the troubleshooting charts that follow to assist in repairing the computer.

For a detailed POWER-ON SEQUENCE for the Z-386 you can see page 66 in the Z-386 20/25/33 service manual. It should be similar for the Z-386 SX as it uses the same Monitor version.

vetz wrote on 2024-07-03, 21:21:

Nice! Another user manual also just popped up on Ebay and Many Bothans bought it. I'm curious if there is alot of difference in the content between the service manual and the user manual? Would you mind expand on that?

I've been meaning to scan my manual. I'd be curious to see the difference in the manual I have and this one that Many Bothans bought.

I have a flatbed scanner which... thinking off the top of my head... it SHOULD be able to scan two pages at once if I lay it out flat?

geiger9 wrote on 2024-07-30, 21:46:

Dude that's awesome. We have the same machine! I'm so glad someone else is talking about this machine, haha. I was the first one to upload the pics to TRW for this machine. I also uploaded the two BIOS you see there in my entry. 3.2C and 2.9B.

I have a few of these machines and I was successful in putting the universal BIOS onto an option ROM on a NIC. It seemed to work fine and dandy with the other Z386SX.

I kinda wish I had that video card that came with the machine. The manual says it is a Z-549-A. Strange thing though is that even though I have several of this exact machine, they all came with a Western Digital video card.

Crazy small world! I was able to find the original Zenith video card to the system, https://theretroweb.com/expansioncards/s/zeni … ystems-240-7940

geiger9 wrote on 2024-08-02, 18:17:

vetz wrote on 2024-07-03, 21:21:

Nice! Another user manual also just popped up on Ebay and Many Bothans bought it. I'm curious if there is alot of difference in the content between the service manual and the user manual? Would you mind expand on that?

I've been meaning to scan my manual. I'd be curious to see the difference in the manual I have and this one that Many Bothans bought.

I have a flatbed scanner which... thinking off the top of my head... it SHOULD be able to scan two pages at once if I lay it out flat?

Now that's just a completely insane coincidence that anyone else would be hunting down a ZDS 386SX manual.

I did receive the manual, but it is not a complete match to my system. It is somehow for a system that is both newer, with a PS/2 connector, and older with a lithium 123-type battery instead of integrated Dallas RTC.

I just scanned it in, so please feel free to take a peek to see if it helps anyone else. It was spiral bound, so just popped it out and ran through a Brother MFP's feeder.

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-08-09, 21:35:

Now that's just a completely insane coincidence that anyone else would be hunting down a ZDS 386SX manual.

I did receive the manual, but it is not a complete match to my system. It is somehow for a system that is both newer, with a PS/2 connector, and older with a lithium 123-type battery instead of integrated Dallas RTC.

I just scanned it in, so please feel free to take a peek to see if it helps anyone else. It was spiral bound, so just popped it out and ran through a Brother MFP's feeder.

Small world indeed 😀

Aw that sucks. I am hoping maybe my manual matches your system. I just went and dug out my flatbed scanner but it is not wide enough unfortunately. I suppose there are ways to take off the coil binding of this thing but I am worried that I won't be able to get it back together again.

vetz wrote on 2024-08-02, 10:24:

Yes, the LEDs seems to work similar across all Zenith models from this time period. The jumper changes the function of them from diagnostic to binary. I don't know how to interpret the binary codes.

I suspect in DIAG mode decoder switches to triggering on 0x80h I/O port = you get POST codes in binary.

vetz wrote on 2024-08-02, 10:24:

As the computer powers up, the entire row of LEDs lights and then, one by one, go out. As each LED goes out, it indicates that the computer has passed a portion of the internal power-up tests. If the computer is configured to autoboot, only the PWR LED will remain lit. If a Monitor prompt appears on the display, the RDY and PWR LEDs remain lit. The status LEDs are used in the troubleshooting charts that follow to assist in repairing the computer.

This description pretty much confirms my suspicion about code driving DIAG Leds. There is this weird code in bios that keeps ORing single bits before writing to port 0xF2h. You can Verify this on your machine using build in monitor and outputting different values to I/O Port 0xF2h (242).
You could also try 0x80h writes after switching diag LEDs mode jumper.

rasz_pl wrote on 2024-08-30, 22:33:

I suspect in DIAG mode decoder switches to triggering on 0x80h I/O port = you get POST codes in binary. […]
Show full quote

vetz wrote on 2024-08-02, 10:24:

Yes, the LEDs seems to work similar across all Zenith models from this time period. The jumper changes the function of them from diagnostic to binary. I don't know how to interpret the binary codes.

I suspect in DIAG mode decoder switches to triggering on 0x80h I/O port = you get POST codes in binary.

vetz wrote on 2024-08-02, 10:24:

As the computer powers up, the entire row of LEDs lights and then, one by one, go out. As each LED goes out, it indicates that the computer has passed a portion of the internal power-up tests. If the computer is configured to autoboot, only the PWR LED will remain lit. If a Monitor prompt appears on the display, the RDY and PWR LEDs remain lit. The status LEDs are used in the troubleshooting charts that follow to assist in repairing the computer.

This description pretty much confirms my suspicion about code driving DIAG Leds. There is this weird code in bios that keeps ORing single bits before writing to port 0xF2h. You can Verify this on your machine using build in monitor and outputting different values to I/O Port 0xF2h (242).
You could also try 0x80h writes after switching diag LEDs mode jumper.

True, the Z-386 20/25 confirms that the codes shows as binary. The Z-386 DX and Z-386 SX looks very similar in terms of boot sequence. They also share the same MFM monitor versions and same amount of diagnostic LEDs.

Hey Many Bothans and vetz - I finally have all the manual scanned for my Z386SX model. Took a long time with only a flatbed scanner and minimal time to work on that project.

https://archive.org/details/zenith-z-386-sx-owners-manual

Hopefully this will be of some help!

geiger9 wrote on 2024-09-24, 14:37:

Hey Many Bothans and vetz - I finally have all the manual scanned for my Z386SX model. Took a long time with only a flatbed scanner and minimal time to work on that project.

https://archive.org/details/zenith-z-386-sx-owners-manual

Hopefully this will be of some help!

Awesome work!

Nice to see that your manual is the first revision (3557V4) and Many Bothans have the manual for the second (3797V1).

I'll report the updated information to TRW so that the listings are correct:
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zenith … -systems-3797v1
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/zenith … -systems-3557v4

Thanks all, this is great stuff!

I still haven't had time to further probe out the P106 speaker/led header on my board...

I'm using a PAS16 card, which does this neat PC speaker output over the ISA bus trick. So I am getting all the beeps and boops even without it being connected. And without a case, the MFM diagnostic lights are more than enough to let anyone know it is powered on.

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-09-26, 14:16:

I'm using a PAS16 card, which does this neat PC speaker output over the ISA bus trick. So I am getting all the beeps and boops even without it being connected. And without a case, the MFM diagnostic lights are more than enough to let anyone know it is powered on.

Smart solution! I haven't heard about this feature before. Is this unique to PAS16 cards?

vetz wrote on 2024-09-27, 07:52:

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-09-26, 14:16:

I'm using a PAS16 card, which does this neat PC speaker output over the ISA bus trick. So I am getting all the beeps and boops even without it being connected. And without a case, the MFM diagnostic lights are more than enough to let anyone know it is powered on.

Smart solution! I haven't heard about this feature before. Is this unique to PAS16 cards?

I'm not sure, but according to my research it might be common to the entire MedaVision PAS line.

From DOS Days - "One unique feature is that it emulated the PC speaker - it did this via its onboard 8253 timer chip, listening on the bus for I/O writes. This differed from the Sound Blaster Pro and later cards that had a 2-pin header on the card to mix in PC speaker audio. The PAS PC speaker emulation can also apply a RealSound filter to make RealSound PWM-style audio sound less distorted. This is configurable via the mixer program."

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-07-26, 12:47:

vetz, thank you! This is certainly most helpful.

Boy, you were not kidding about Zenith MFM-300 and XT Universal BIOS interaction! As you described I was able to boot any drive off of XUBDisk (thank you BurnedPinguin!) but it doubled boot time and maybe quadrupled soft reboot duration. Even a few hard lockups that needed the power switch. Very, very strange behavior indeed as it is completely solid and stable without XUB.

I tested a PicoMEM card in the Zenith yesterday and I can confirm that none of the issues with XTIDE is present with PicoMEM. Booting from the SD card and HD image works without issues.

Many Bothans wrote on 2024-07-28, 16:27:

I cleaned up the prototype and here's the final version of the ATX-ZDS12 power adapter -

Can you provide the full pinout that you used for your connector so that I can confirm I have mine properly documented before I build my own adapter?