I've read almost this whole thread because I'm also trying to come up with a solution for my machine. Currently, when I need pure DOS, I just go to Shut Down and tick the box to reboot into DOS. If I needed DOS almost exclusively, I'd probably just edit the MSDOS.SYS file as mentioned earlier. Not sure how to do that yet. I think you can still get into Windows by typing Win that way, but correct me if I'm wrong.

My question is though, why is it such a big deal to just boot into 95/98 first, then tick the option to reboot into DOS? Is it because Windows still leaves some of its leftover crap in memory or something?

Syntho wrote on 2024-07-31, 08:43:

I've read almost this whole thread because I'm also trying to come up with a solution for my machine. Currently, when I need pure DOS, I just go to Shut Down and tick the box to reboot into DOS. If I needed DOS almost exclusively, I'd probably just edit the MSDOS.SYS file as mentioned earlier. Not sure how to do that yet. I think you can still get into Windows by typing Win that way, but correct me if I'm wrong.

My question is though, why is it such a big deal to just boot into 95/98 first, then tick the option to reboot into DOS? Is it because Windows still leaves some of its leftover crap in memory or something?

Just the time it takes to boot into windows, shutdown windows, boot into dos. memory should be clean.
Personally, I use a shortcut on the desktop but think the shutdown menu works the same where if you turn the PC off it'll keep booting into dos unless you type exit?
I find this convenient enough.

Thanks for the info. I just did a lot of reading on it. I think I'm going to go with a multi configuration machine, since I'd use DOS more than Windows and I'd rather boot into that than to Windows first. My only question now is about conflicting drivers and TSRs, etc. If I boot into DOS and have my config.sys and autoexec.bat files loaded up with everything I need for a DOS machine, what happens when I type Win and boot into Windows? Would there be some sort of conflict where things are loaded in memory already that Windows would load once again? I'm thinking I may need to restart at that point and select Windows from my boot menu, but not sure.

Dos uses:
Msdos.dos (sys)
Io.dos (sys)
Command.dos (com)
config.dos (sys)
autoexec.dos (bat)

9x (NOT ME) uses
Msdos.sys
Io.sys
Command.com
config.sys
autoexec.bat

IIRC the only thing that might need configuring is one line in the 9x msdos.sys (BootMulti=1
option to show "Old MSDOS")
Otherwise, you can simply copy 6.22 and others onto the drive with the renames and it will work.
The renaming happens automatically during the boot process.

Switching will always require a reboot because 9x won't load on 6.22.

more info: https://www.mdgx.com/msdos.htm

Syntho wrote on 2024-08-02, 12:26:

Thanks for the info. I just did a lot of reading on it. I think I'm going to go with a multi configuration machine, since I'd use DOS more than Windows and I'd rather boot into that than to Windows first. My only question now is about conflicting drivers and TSRs, etc. If I boot into DOS and have my config.sys and autoexec.bat files loaded up with everything I need for a DOS machine, what happens when I type Win and boot into Windows? Would there be some sort of conflict where things are loaded in memory already that Windows would load once again? I'm thinking I may need to restart at that point and select Windows from my boot menu, but not sure.

Do you have to use 6.22? If not, you don't need to go through that hassle. DOS 7.x that comes with windows 95/98 works just fine. You can use a boot menu and have separate configs for booting into DOS and Windows.

eddman wrote on 2024-08-02, 14:03:

Do you have to use 6.22? If not, you don't need to go through that hassle. DOS 7.x that comes with windows 95/98 works just fine. You can use a boot menu and have separate configs for booting into DOS and Windows.

That's actually what I'm doing. I was just wondering if when I boot into 7.1 first, if something in my autoexec.bat or config.sys will load something that will conflict with Windows if I choose to load it via Win. For example, the HIMEM.SYS or EMM386 files, or a mouse driver, etc. Windows takes care of all of that on its own, so I wonder what the effect would be of having those things loaded in memory, then to have Windows load its own crap. Unless it does't work that way.

Personally, for booting into windows, I try to manually load as little as possible in autoexec.bat, and none in config.sys.

For example, I customize EMM386 for the DOS boot option (include different memory ranges and move the EMS table), so I'd rather not have that be loaded for windows. Generally the less you mess with what's loaded into windows the better. I don't know for certain what will cause issues, so better to stay on the safe side. More experienced members here would probably know some examples.

I've used Phil's boot menu as a template but have changed quite a few things.

Hello, I was wondering how you were able configure the System Commander screen to look like Windows XP in hi-color? I installed System Commander 8.20 and it boots in 256 color and it does not look nearly as good (see pic). Any help or tips are appreciated.
Thanks!

magicmanred wrote on 2022-06-17, 18:56:

Here is how I did it... Full disclosure, I am assuming a certain level of tech abilities, so if anything is unclear or if anyone […]
Show full quote

Here is how I did it...
Full disclosure, I am assuming a certain level of tech abilities, so if anything is unclear or if anyone needs any particular step broken down, please don't hesitate to ask.

IMPORTANT:
I did this with the following software at hand:
1: MS DOS 6.22 Installation floppy disks.
2: Windows 3.11 Installation floppy disks.
3: MS Dos 6.22 Boot floppy disk.
4: Windows 95 "B" (4.00.950B) Installation CD.
5: Windows 95 "A" Boot floppy disk (REQUIRED)
6: Windows 95 "B" Boot floppy disk (Not needed, but good to have).

The process:
• I made a clean fresh 2GB FAT partition (I believe 2GB is max for FAT). You can achieve this with your DOS 6.22 boot disks and FDisk/Format commands.
• I then installed DOS 6.22 on that partition. (When I did it, it was the only partition created on the HDD, which was a 20GB IDE HDD)
• I removed any floppy disk, the rebooted into the new MS-DOS, and installed WFW 3.11 into "C:\WIN311" to not confuse the later Win95 install (you can use 3.1 or whatever DOS based Windows version you like).
• I renamed the "win" executable in my Win311 folder to WIN.OLD by typing the following: (Sometimes Win95 installs will find the executable and think you have Windows installed already, then cancel installation)
C:
cd\win311 (replace win311 with whatever folder you installed windows 3.xx in)
ren win.com win.old
• I then edited Config.sys & Autoexec.bat to have CD Rom drivers loaded into memory. (if you do not know how to do this, please research a good write-up. (I use vide-cdd.sys and shsucdx.com since they have small memory footprints)
• Rebooted back into DOS and popped in a Windows 95 "B" CD.
• Went to the CD drive letter and ran setup to install Windows 95 by typing the following: (I installed it into the "C:\Windows" folder)
d: (replace "d" with whatever driveletter your CD-ROM occupied)
setup
If Win95 setup still detects your windows 3.xx installation, see if there is a PATH value of the Win3xx folder set in your Autoexec.bat file. If so, remove it, restart, and rerun Win95 setup from CD.
Additionally, win3xx may have added "ifshlp.sys" in your config.sys file. Remove that as well. (You can add it back later if you need it).
• Once Win95 was installed and booted into, I clicked start/run and typed in "Command" to bring up a command prompt (do not "reboot into dos prompt")
• In command prompt, I copied/backed up the root of the c:\ contents to a temp folder by typing the following
c:
cd\
attrib *.* -h -s -r +a
md temp
copy *.* temp
• I removed the Win95 CD, popped in the Win95 "A" boot disk, exited the Command Prompt. Clicked "Start" then "Shut down" then "Reboot".
• Once I got to the command prompt and booted off of the Win95 "A" disk, I typed the following:
a:
cd\
sys c:
• I then copied the backed up contents from earlier that we put into the "C:\Temp" folder, over to the C:\ root by typing the following:
attrib c:\*.* -h -s -r +a
copy c:\temp\*.* c:\
• When asked if you want to over-write anything, select yes to all.
• I then renamed the Win311 executable back to what it originally was by typing the following:
c:
cd\win311 (replace win311 with wherever you installed your win3.xx)
ren win.old win.com
• Finally done, have a beer.

Some explanation of why this works:
Win95B ruins something in the MBR which only makes you able to "Boot into previous version of MS-DOS" only once, then it is gone forever.
This process you read above installs the Win95A MBR signatures that do not get corrupt when selecting "Boot into previous version of MS-DOS".
It also re-copies the Win95B root system files back to the C:\ so that the only thing left that was really modified was installing the Win95A MBR signature. (which is why the Win95A boot disk is needed).

Now, when you reboot your PC... you can press "F8" when it says "Starting Windows 95" and you will have a prompt.
From there, you can pick "Boot into previous version of MS-DOS" to get into your MS-DOS 6.22 where your Windows 3.11 also lives (as well as your Win95 install).
From DOS 6.22 you can launch Win3.11.
To get to Win95, reboot and just let Windows 95 load naturally without pressing F8 or any F-keys.
Do NOT run any DOS based Defrag or Scandisk or disk tools. Windows 95 operates with Long File Names and this will ALL be corrupt if you do so.
If Win95 did a good job during the install, it would have re-named all of these tools in your DOS folder and created a .BAT file telling you to not run them, but rather to boot into Win95 and run the Win95 versions off them.

Cheers and have fun!
Here's a pic of my Super Socket 7 PC booted into System Commander (My MS-DOS & Win3.11 & Win95 are all on the same 2GB partition which was done before System Commander was even installed).

I want to warn that the MSDOS 6.22+Win9x setup is not as clean as it may seem. The choice of "Previous Version of MS DOS" does indeed let you boot from DOS 6.22, but the system files aren't quite right.

Why I say this is because if you boot to that option and do a FORMAT A: /S, you will get a corrupted DOS 6.22 boot disk. It hangs during boot. This doesn't happen from a clean DOS 6.22 installation (without Win95 on top). This is indicative that the restoration of DOS 6.22's files somehow is incomplete when going with option 7 from the boot menu.

Hence, I prefer using boot managers that operate on a higher level than both DOS and Win9x.