VOGONS


Recapping SB16, problem desoldering

Topic actions

First post, by 486man_

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hi

I started recapping the SB16 (CT1740, all caps) but ran into problems. My attempts to remove (desolder) the old (through-hole) caps have failed. This turned out to be much more complicated than expected.

I have Weller vacuum desoldering station with iron DSX-80. I'm using number 3 tip and don't have any smaller ones at the moment. I have tried temp up to 370°C

The problem is simply I'm unable to get the solder out of the holes.

This is certainly not the first time I'm desoldering with this iron+station. I have done some electronics repair in the past as hobby: crts, cassette decks... and have desoldered also multilayer pcb's succesfully. Something is different here.

I have tried the usual tricks: resolder, apply the heat longer before suction...

Am I using too large tip? This works for multilayer MBs though. Or should I skip the entire job given the card is still working? I dont want to use force and damage the vias..

Any hints?

Reply 3 of 21, by BitWrangler

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

I grant you the knowing of two of my tricks... misapplication of which can result in DIRE consequences, use them carefully, lest ye be made unwhole...

Get a stainless steel sewing needle that's not too fat and a pair of locking pliers, hold blunt end of needle in pliers, heat sharp end on candle or torch until hot, plunge into via and work up and down rapidly a couple of times so it doesn't catch. Do not have board resting on your thigh when you do this, or knock over the candle and burn your house down.

Second trick is a super fine drill bit USED WITH FINGERS ONLY, you can find a chuck to put it in, or use a pinvise or parts of an exacto knife set, or even sometimes it fits in some mathematical compass point holders, but DO NOT put it in a power tool. Just roll it between your fingers very carefully applying very light pressure. With this technique you'll feel when it's cutting the softer solder out, and it will bounce off the harder via, unless you force it, do not force it, just let it center itself by cutting the soft solder, nice and easy, twiddle twiddle and you'll be through. Clumsy people will snag the via and rip it out or stab their leg knock the candle over get their foot caught in the soldering iron cord, paralyze themselves falling down the stairs and burn to death with the candle lighting the house up, so go slowwww and careful.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 4 of 21, by rasz_pl

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I use needle trick because Im lazy and dont want to go unpacking bulky desoldering gun, except:
- I use hypodermic needles, they are stainless and hollow meaning no thermal mass and solder doesnt stick
- I heat hole with hotair/normal soldering iron, stick needle and rotate at an angle while pcb cools off

When it comes to bad methods that work when you know what you are doing there is also air compressor, just dont look at the work piece with your naked remaining unburned eye. Molten solder flies everywhere, under garments, into eyes, nose, hair, pants. Lands on your brand new phone screen leaving permanent mark etc 😀 Highly unadvised!!1

https://github.com/raszpl/FIC-486-GAC-2-Cache-Module for AT&T Globalyst
https://github.com/raszpl/386RC-16 memory board
https://github.com/raszpl/440BX Reference Design adapted to Kicad
https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS MFM-300 Monitor

Reply 5 of 21, by Shponglefan

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
486man_ wrote on 2024-08-04, 18:54:

The problem is simply I'm unable to get the solder out of the holes.

Have you removed the caps or are they also still place?

In the caps are still in place, you could try heating each pin in succession and gradually wiggling the capacitor out.

If the capacitor is removed but there is still solder, I recommend heating an iron from one side while using the desoldering gun or pump on the other side.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 6 of 21, by BitWrangler

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Those bulb type solder suckers can suck and blow less aggressively than compressed air, so if you have the board kinda vertical and touch it from one side while pumping like mad on the bulb, it can go one way or the other, bearing in mind to only put one eye directly in front of where it's gonna splatter so you can save the other for reading vogons.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 7 of 21, by zuldan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Been mentioned in the posts above but I'll say it again. A heat gun + desolder gun (vacuum) works perfectly every time. While heating up the hole with the heat gun, use the desolder at the same time (after a few seconds). It's the best way to do it I find with the least about of stress to the board.

Last edited by zuldan on 2024-08-05, 00:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 8 of 21, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

My WEP 929D-V solder sucker came with a long stainless poker for clearing holes and 4 diff size tips, it has worked very well. Yeah tried the compressed air method once and will not do that again 😁

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 9 of 21, by badmojo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-04, 22:35:

If the capacitor is removed but there is still solder, I recommend heating an iron from one side while using the desoldering gun or pump on the other side.

This is my final resort trick too - fresh solder added on each side, hold the board up vertically somehow, and then attack from both angles. It's a bit awkward but always gets the job done.

Sometimes old solder comes out super easy, sometimes it's a stubborn jerk. I assume it has something to do with lead content.

Life? Don't talk to me about life.

Reply 10 of 21, by Shponglefan

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
badmojo wrote on 2024-08-05, 05:52:
Shponglefan wrote on 2024-08-04, 22:35:

If the capacitor is removed but there is still solder, I recommend heating an iron from one side while using the desoldering gun or pump on the other side.

This is my final resort trick too - fresh solder added on each side, hold the board up vertically somehow, and then attack from both angles. It's a bit awkward but always gets the job done.

This is precisely why I use this circuit board holder. Makes tackling desoldering from both sides trivial.

Attachments

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 11 of 21, by 486man_

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thanks for all the hints!

Which kind of heat gun do you use? I only have one with large exhaust (older model of Bosch GHG 23-66).

Any pointers where to purchase the circuit board holder from? It looks good.

I think I'll order smaller tips for the desolder (DX112, DX110) and try them too. Further testing with throwaway MB indicate that desoldering component wires with larger diameter are easier than with smaller diameter using my DX113 tip.

Reply 12 of 21, by zuldan

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
486man_ wrote on 2024-08-05, 06:57:
Thanks for all the hints! […]
Show full quote

Thanks for all the hints!

Which kind of heat gun do you use? I only have one with large exhaust (older model of Bosch GHG 23-66).

Any pointers where to purchase the circuit board holder from? It looks good.

I think I'll order smaller tips for the desolder (DX112, DX110) and try them too. Further testing with throwaway MB indicate that desoldering component wires with larger diameter are easier than with smaller diameter using my DX113 tip.

I use this cheap chinese one. This is the best heat gun I've ever used. The heat it produces is amazing. You can find them on eBay.

IMG_5858.JPG
Filename
IMG_5858.JPG
File size
409 KiB
Views
787 views
File license
Public domain

Reply 16 of 21, by Joakim

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I usually heat up the board with hot air fan and take a clean solder tip at one side and a 5$ solder sucker at the other side. Takes a few attempts on heavy ground planes. First work I did was on an OG Xbox and it ended up a slight disaster but you get better with practice...

Reply 17 of 21, by BitWrangler

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
486man_ wrote on 2024-08-05, 06:57:
Thanks for all the hints! […]
Show full quote

Thanks for all the hints!

Which kind of heat gun do you use? I only have one with large exhaust (older model of Bosch GHG 23-66).

Any pointers where to purchase the circuit board holder from? It looks good.

I think I'll order smaller tips for the desolder (DX112, DX110) and try them too. Further testing with throwaway MB indicate that desoldering component wires with larger diameter are easier than with smaller diameter using my DX113 tip.

Back in the noughties when we were inundated with the ball and lead free solder failures, I just had a "paint stripper" heat gun, with the low setting (250C vs 450C) and put a smaller nozzle on that with a pop/soda can cut up with scissors and a hose clamp.... and btw those guns mount in hand held electric drill, drill stands fairly easily, so that can be a good addition to a low buck shop. Though might be barely worth it nowadays when you can get useful hotair rework kit for $50, back then it was starting at $500

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 18 of 21, by akimmet

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I see some good advice so far. Supplemental heat usually helps with stubborn parts.

Once in awhile you have a situation where the holes in the PCB are too small for the lead size.
If you have this problem no amount of solder sucking or wicking will remove enough solder to remove the part cold.
Then this is where the sewing needle technique, will come into play. Sometimes just pulling on the lead while heating the freshly re-soldered joint with a temperature controlled soldering iron is the only way to get it out.

If you do need to employ any mechanical means to remove your components, ALWAYS use a temperature controlled iron. Cheap irons get too hot, and the risk of lifting a pad greatly increases.