VOGONS


7800 or 7900 series?

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Reply 20 of 46, by DarthSun

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X800/850 cannot be obtained, less frequent and slower, 7900 well proven, stable.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 21 of 46, by Joseph_Joestar

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DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-06, 05:56:

X800/850 cannot be obtained, less frequent and slower, 7900 well proven, stable.

From my experience, X800 series cards may be slower, but in terms of stability and compatibility, they are a better choice for Win9x games. And this is despite lacking support for table fog and paletted textures.

Nvidia's later drivers which are necessary for GeForce 6/7 cards simply cause too many random issues with older games. X800 cards with Catalyst 6.2 work much better in that regard.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 22 of 46, by DarthSun

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-08-06, 06:50:
DarthSun wrote on 2024-08-06, 05:56:

X800/850 cannot be obtained, less frequent and slower, 7900 well proven, stable.

From my experience, X800 series cards may be slower, but in terms of stability and compatibility, they are a better choice for Win9x games. And this is despite lacking support for table fog and paletted textures.

Nvidia's later drivers which are necessary for GeForce 6/7 cards simply cause too many random issues with older games. X800 cards with Catalyst 6.2 work much better in that regard.

I wanted to try it, but you can't get it here, if so, very expensive. PCIe 7900GS and QFX3500 (7900GS) were cheap.
My favorite titles are stable in B450, for DOS/Win98/XP - secondary video card.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 23 of 46, by Methanoid

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-06, 05:22:

For Win9x, Radeon X800/X850 are better though, because GeForce 6xxx/7xxx series are quite broken in many ways.

What ways? All I can find is posts saying Radeon is broken for DOS and buggy for Windows 98 but nobody saying NV is.... And doesnt RLoews NVpatch fix the 512-1GB cards for Win98???

Reply 24 of 46, by DarthSun

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Methanoid wrote on 2024-08-06, 09:53:
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-06, 05:22:

For Win9x, Radeon X800/X850 are better though, because GeForce 6xxx/7xxx series are quite broken in many ways.

What ways? All I can find is posts saying Radeon is broken for DOS and buggy for Windows 98 but nobody saying NV is.... And doesnt RLoews NVpatch fix the 512-1GB cards for Win98???

I think the X800/850 is less because they have less survivors, with more of the 7900s. I have never seen Radeon in reality, only in the picture, but very expensive.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 25 of 46, by The Serpent Rider

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X800/X850 is more reliable, in fact, because 7900 is affected by the infamous Bumpgate. 7800 could be affected too, but that is inconclusive.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 26 of 46, by DarthSun

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-08, 08:01:

X800/X850 is more reliable, in fact, because 7900 is affected by the infamous Bumpgate. 7800 could be affected too, but that is inconclusive.

QFx3500 (7900gs) +cooling, Xpertvision 7900gs is a good cooler, QFX3450 (6800gs), 6800gt AGP, 6600gt PCIe is also good cooling. And 6600gt AGPs also received +cooling. Each reason, and Xpertvision knows very big clock.
I rather heard 8800gtx/gts that a lot is destroyed due to ball welding. 8600gts okay, of course it also got a better fan.

The 7900gs is important because of the speed (also for XP for a secondary card in the B450 +win98), 7900gtx would be the best, but I haven't been able to get it yet.
So the cards listed are and work well, I have no reason to find x800/850.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 27 of 46, by The Serpent Rider

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GeForce 7900 series was absolutely affected by it, because first revisions of PS3 were also affected, with RSX on 90nm lithography. All Nvidia 90nm chips are just ticking timebombs.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 28 of 46, by NostalgicAslinger

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-08, 17:52:

GeForce 7900 series was absolutely affected by it, because first revisions of PS3 were also affected, with RSX on 90nm lithography. All Nvidia 90nm chips are just ticking timebombs.

So, I am happy, that I have a Gainward Bliss 7800 GS+ 512MB AGP with the first version of the 110nm G70 core (7800 GT with 20 pipes).
I have bought this card new in 2006. A month later, the Bliss+ with G71 comes out, at first the 24 pipes version, later a 20 pipes version of the G71.

Reply 29 of 46, by DarthSun

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I am also very pleased with the two G71/90nm cards. I think these are eternal life+1 day. I may even serve my grandson if he will be retros.
It should be packed in a well -ventilated modern house.
I have seen many other opinions on the net, hardware, operating systems, most of which, when checked on my own test bench, turned out to be just beliefs, somebody invented it, and they believeds it.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 30 of 46, by The Serpent Rider

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There's just less info about G70 death rates, so I won't say it's 100% safe.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 31 of 46, by DarthSun

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I look at the NV41, however, is 130nm, a big jump between the two series. However, the factory cooling of the NV41 is good, and the G71 is unacceptable, definitely overheating.
NV41 : https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/quadro-fx-3450.c1368
G71 : https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/quadro-fx-3500.c1347
On his own photos : https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2023-01/18/225621_ … kei_1fx3450.jpg
https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2022-12/10/225621_ … b_7900gsmod.jpg
XpertVision G71 : Good cooling, in exchange 2 slots wide - https://cdn.rios.hu/dl/upc/2024-03/18/225621_ … 0318_175533.jpg

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 32 of 46, by BitWrangler

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IDK what I've got, one green thing arrived recently... Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today
and I had a black thing from ages back EVGA 7900GS ... but I haven't found the build to put them in yet, plus 50 other projects.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 33 of 46, by DarthSun

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Based on the photo/label, I guess 7900gt. Although manufacturers release quite a few variants, the rehearsal is revealed.
In any case, if it works, do good cooling because the factory is ridiculous.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 34 of 46, by The Serpent Rider

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However, the factory cooling of the NV41 is good, and the G71 is unacceptable, definitely overheating.

None of the factory coolers are sufficient, these GPU chips need to have the temperature below 65 Celsius at all times, according to BGA substrate characteristics. Or probably even lower, because hot spots are a thing and we can't reliably monitor them on such old hardware.

Here's RIP Felix video about Xbox 360 and specifically the part where he is poking substrates on various chips: https://youtu.be/3qKtS_uxdcU?si=ZSx_eKlXHaZSm4HM&t=2867

Notice that it's also includes GeForce Go 6600, which also got affected and was manufactured way before G7x series release (still on 110nm fabrication).

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 35 of 46, by DarthSun

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-11, 09:45:
None of the factory coolers are sufficient, these GPU chips need to have the temperature below 65 Celsius at all times, accordin […]
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However, the factory cooling of the NV41 is good, and the G71 is unacceptable, definitely overheating.

None of the factory coolers are sufficient, these GPU chips need to have the temperature below 65 Celsius at all times, according to BGA substrate characteristics. Or probably even lower, because hot spots are a thing and we can't reliably monitor them on such old hardware.

Here's RIP Felix video about Xbox 360 and specifically the part where he is poking substrates on various chips: https://youtu.be/3qKtS_uxdcU?si=ZSx_eKlXHaZSm4HM&t=2867

Notice that it's also includes GeForce Go 6600, which also got affected and was manufactured way before G7x series release (still on 110nm fabrication).

I don't use Xbox, the console is never interested. It looked ugly (capacitors, for example). It is not possible to give the parts proper cooling, almost zero airflow, a closed canned box. Also, the old PC houses are not good either, rather and I also install contemporary video cards in modern houses with 12cm fans.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 36 of 46, by The Serpent Rider

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Out of G7x cards, I probably could recommend Quadro FX 1500, as a secondary card. It's a cut-down G71 which has 16 active pipelines and 325 MHz clock (so practically 6800GT). It's very energy efficient and powered only from PCIe. GPU temps are mostly below 60C, which is perfect.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 37 of 46, by DarthSun

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-18, 00:04:

Out of G7x cards, I probably could recommend Quadro FX 1500, as a secondary card. It's a cut-down G71 which has 16 active pipelines and 325 MHz clock (so practically 6800GT). It's very energy efficient and powered only from PCIe. GPU temps are mostly below 60C, which is perfect.

I have needs a power connectors fors Curie GPU , the lack of power connector is not sympathetic to me.
FX1500 is very weak in 3DM2001, which is the most important retro test on Madness machine. The FX3500 and the Xpertvision 7900gs are hit. 7900gtx obtain, with Intel Raptor+Win98 can be king results.

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.

Reply 38 of 46, by Masterchief79

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In terms of G71 durability, I have had very bad experiences with them. I repair graphics card semiprofessionally and I reball GPUs every day. Out of the last ~20 G71 cards, at least 10-12 had a defective memory controller inside of the GPU amongst other issues. That splits up into two 7950GX2s, a bunch of 7900GTs, two 7900GTXs, two 7900GS, two 7950GTs, three 7800GS AGP G71 and a bunch of quadro versions.
I do buy most of my hardware defetctive and then repair it, so that skews the statistic, but it's still staggering how the memory controller just seems to randomly die at some point. I'm not even sure if regular maintenance and cool temperatures prevent it. If you card's picture looks like this, instead of vertical lines on the monitor, don't bother with repairs.

In my experience G70 cards are more reliable but then again I haven't had enough of those to have an informed opinion.

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Reply 39 of 46, by DarthSun

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To before and after G71, prones too tends fails. I have about 100 cards from Retro ISA to newer ones.

They are fails:
2 Trident ISA
1 S3TRIO64V2
1 GEF3TI200
1 GEF4TI4200
1 NVFX5700
1 R9700Pro
1 HD2600Pro AGP
1 NVGTX285
1 RHD6850

10 pieces out of 100

The 2pcs G71 works well good ...

The 3 body problems cannot be solved, neither for future quantum computers, even for the remainder of the universe. The Proton 2D is circling a planet and stepping back to the quantum size in 11 dimensions.