VOGONS


First post, by ux-3

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Unfortunately, I just bricked the bios of an S7 board (file size 128k). As the board was working OK before, I would like to rescue it. It looks as if the bios can be taken out of the socket. The chip has 2x16 pins.

How could I best restore the bios?

What (economic) eeprom programmer is needed and what else would I need, aside from the bios.bin file?

Are there services for this?

Thanks for help

Could I frankenstein it in another different award bios 586 board? Boot different board, remove bios chip, insert this one, force flash, power off?

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 1 of 16, by Babasha

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ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-14, 17:03:

Could I frankenstein it in another different award bios 586 board? Boot different board, remove bios chip, insert this one, force flash, power off?

Yeap! Hotswap "technology" but be carefull with chip remove/insertion and look for chip voltage 5V or 12V

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware 😉

Reply 2 of 16, by ux-3

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Babasha wrote on 2024-08-14, 18:07:
ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-14, 17:03:

Could I frankenstein it in another different award bios 586 board? Boot different board, remove bios chip, insert this one, force flash, power off?

Yeap! Hotswap "technology" but be carefull with chip remove/insertion and look for chip voltage 5V or 12V

Where do I find that voltage info? What "careful" do you mean?

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 3 of 16, by Babasha

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There maybe two flash voltages 5 or 12V (motherboards sometimes got jumper for select flash voltage). Choose the right voltage for your chip. And insert chip right not vice-versa)))

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware 😉

Reply 4 of 16, by ux-3

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Before I resort to frankenstein methods, what about doing it the "legit" way?

What kind of eeprom programmer would I need? I am clueless in this regard.

Or do we have experts here who can do the job for a fee? The bios chip isn't exactly heavy to mail.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 5 of 16, by akimmet

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The legit method would be to use an inexpensive EEPROM programmer like the Xgecu T48. This is the current best choice for a cheap programmer with a large list of supported chips.

Reply 6 of 16, by ux-3

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akimmet wrote on 2024-08-14, 19:07:

The legit method would be to use an inexpensive EEPROM programmer like the Xgecu T48. This is the current best choice for a cheap programmer with a large list of supported chips.

OK, but how much knowledge is then required? Do you need extra software? I never owned anything like this.

I am just thinking that it might be easier to pay someone with the right tool and the knowledge to do the job. Or maybe borrow one.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 7 of 16, by akimmet

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The software is fairly easy to figure out. Only a few steps are required, and so far I've never had to change any settings from default other than the type of chip to program.

Reply 9 of 16, by paradigital

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ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-22, 17:59:

Used a reflash service for the fraction of the price of an Xgecu T48. Problem solved.

A fraction of the cost.. once.

A T48 or similar is a superb and relatively cheap tool to own if you have even slightly more than a passing interest in retro hardware.

I’ve used my TL866-II Plus more times than I can count, and rescued more than a good handful of boards and cards with it. Not to mention the endless tweaking and BIOS modifications that I’ve done in the name of performance gains and suchlike. And then there’s the archiving of BIOS ROMs as well.

Reply 10 of 16, by Horun

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paradigital wrote on 2024-08-22, 20:10:

A T48 or similar is a superb and relatively cheap tool to own if you have even slightly more than a passing interest in retro hardware.

I’ve used my TL866-II Plus more times than I can count, and rescued more than a good handful of boards and cards with it. Not to mention the endless tweaking and BIOS modifications that I’ve done in the name of performance gains and suchlike. And then there’s the archiving of BIOS ROMs as well.

+++ on this ! Mine paid for itself the first few months reviving some motherboards with bad or bricked bios....
plus saved many bios from some vintage stuff to donate to our BIOS collection for others BIOS image collection - requests, discussion etc

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 11 of 16, by ux-3

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Well, the first computer I bought (from my own money) was a C64 back in 1985. Since then I owned more computers than I can count and this is the first case that I need to reflash a bricked bios. I can buy two more reflashes and still save. I'll take that risk.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 12 of 16, by CharlieFoxtrot

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paradigital wrote on 2024-08-22, 20:10:
A fraction of the cost.. once. […]
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ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-22, 17:59:

Used a reflash service for the fraction of the price of an Xgecu T48. Problem solved.

A fraction of the cost.. once.

A T48 or similar is a superb and relatively cheap tool to own if you have even slightly more than a passing interest in retro hardware.

I’ve used my TL866-II Plus more times than I can count, and rescued more than a good handful of boards and cards with it. Not to mention the endless tweaking and BIOS modifications that I’ve done in the name of performance gains and suchlike. And then there’s the archiving of BIOS ROMs as well.

I agree that for electronics projects and retro computing T48, or older TL866 series one is worth the purchase. With just the basic programmer you can program pretty much all DIP eeproms in these vintage systems. Of course, if you need to program different type of packages, controllers etc. you need to purchase adapters and they can increase the total price significantly.

Still, Xcegeu programmers are probably the best and most reliable affordable programmers out there and completely fine for hobbyists. T48 and T56 series also support high programming voltages, so even old UV EEPROMS requiring 18V+ voltages can be programmed just fine. However, they are still not perfect. Although they support huge amount of different chips, some of the settings for them are not correct in the software. One typical error is too low programming voltage and if your programming fails, it is best to dig in the spec sheet of the chip you are working with and adjust the voltages in the programming software accordingly. Other and more annoying problem I encountered last spring was a bug in the software that wasn't fixed at least in two releases and six months, can't say if the situation is improved currently: it simply couldn't program one type of very common PIC controller and there were several posts from other users about the problem in Xcegu forums. I ended up getting a PICKit clone to get the job done.

So, they are very affordable, but it certainly shows in some aspects.

Reply 13 of 16, by butjer1010

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If You buy programmer like T48 or T56, everybody here will be helping You how to reflash BIOS file. It is really easy, software for this programmer is very simple. All You have to do, is erase eeprom, or if it is "older UV eprom", You need UV eraser besides programmer to erase old data from BIOS chip, and then load new bios file and press - program!!! And that's it! No problem at all. If You'll stuck anywhere, we will help You. Just see what kind of BIOS chip You need to program, and if it is some chip that wont fit in "basic programmer", buy adapter for that chip with programmer.

Reply 14 of 16, by Mandrew

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I don't want to be THAT guy but it's smarter to spend $60 on a programmer with a bunch of adapters that supports a wide variety of chips (EPROM,EEPROM,SPI,EMMC,MCU,NAND,NOR) than paying a shop $20 every time you need one fixed. I have the older version of the 886II+ and it saved my arse many times over the years. Not just retro stuff but anything with a programmable chip. It's one of the most important and versatile gadgets in this hobby IMO, you can experiment with different BIOS versions, reflash your TV after a failed update, recover content from a broken smartphone, fix home appliances and even reprogram/restore ECU from factory ROM files. I fixed my failed Suzuki ECU that way, $150 saved. It's good stuff, highly recommend it.

Reply 15 of 16, by ux-3

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Mandrew wrote on 2024-08-23, 17:25:

I don't want to be THAT guy but it's smarter to spend $60 on a programmer with a bunch of adapters that supports a wide variety of chips (EPROM,EEPROM,SPI,EMMC,MCU,NAND,NOR) than paying a shop $20 every time you need one fixed. I have the older version of the 886II+ and it saved my arse many times over the years. Not just retro stuff but anything with a programmable chip. It's one of the most important and versatile gadgets in this hobby IMO, you can experiment with different BIOS versions, reflash your TV after a failed update, recover content from a broken smartphone, fix home appliances and even reprogram/restore ECU from factory ROM files. I fixed my failed Suzuki ECU that way, $150 saved. It's good stuff, highly recommend it.

The prices here are about 80 Euros for the programmer vs 13 Euros for the fix. I only needed one fix in the last 40 years of computing. The math is simple for me. If you need to fix stuff way more often, the results may compute differently.

Retro PC warning: The things you own end up owning you.

Reply 16 of 16, by Mandrew

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ux-3 wrote on 2024-08-23, 17:47:

I only needed one fix in the last 40 years of computing. The math is simple for me. If you need to fix stuff way more often, the results may compute differently.

Fair enough.