This is pretty cool. Definitely helps to better visualize the size differences between these systems.
https://comparesizes.com/comparison/Optiplex- … 243520213678412
... I just wish it was possible to easily rearrange them.
I've been pondering about getting a machine that fits this bill (well xp only) and now watching this thread i more and more lean to just making one myself and not going as small as possible. A little bit more expensive than a prebuilt probably but you get what suits your needs ... getting a prebuilt always has either this or that issue.
I mean search a i3 2130 (lga 1155) on the cheap, a micro atx motherboard, a power supply and a cheapo case or whatever you like best. Slap a 750Ti or what have you in there and bob's your uncle.
It will take more time to source parts but at least you don't have to worry about what might or might not fit in a prebuilt. Also won't run into not standardized form factor power supply and whatnot.
I'm done with overthinking it. 😁
I might suggest that you pair dos compatibility/speed and windows 2000/XP/2003 support. NT would be nice also. To me. Driver support in the mobo and video card is also something to consider. Maybe the absolute fastest dos capability isn't quite as important as extended compatibility (it's dos!). Small is nice. Get a thin client. You can't always have it all. "All" these days make cost you a very sexy penny.
Dell, HP and other OEM options are mostly interesting if you want to do something smaller than slim microATX, but don't want to be constrained by Mini-ITX.
Also I don't see the appeal of "SFF" stuff like HP Z220, which has the same size as most generic slim microATX cases, while having weird BTX-like proprietary layout and being a fricking oven without ventilation.
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
The HP Z boxes were movillous. The Xeon based ones especially. Personally I love the sff way of life. I currently only have a POS (no not Point Of Sale) AMD equipped Pro 6005. Same mobo mountings and such, iirc, as the Z220. I mean it works fine. But the Athlon II X2 B24 is absolutely NOT a Point Of Sale. But it most certainly is a POS nevertheless. I only paid 10$ for it and it had a 2tb hard drive. I got much more then my money's worth on that alone.
Not hating on AMD in general. Just despise their over priced low end crappola
oldhighgerman wrote on 2024-08-22, 20:37:I might suggest that you pair dos compatibility/speed and windows 2000/XP/2003 support. NT would be nice also. To me. Driver support in the mobo and video card is also something to consider. Maybe the absolute fastest dos capability isn't quite as important as extended compatibility (it's dos!). Small is nice. Get a thin client. You can't always have it all. "All" these days make cost you a very sexy penny.
Forgot to add i'm looking into XP only.
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-22, 20:48:Dell, HP and other OEM options are mostly interesting if you want to do something smaller than slim microATX, but don't want to be constrained by Mini-ITX.
Also I don't see the appeal of "SFF" stuff like HP Z220, which has the same size as most generic slim microATX cases, while having weird BTX-like proprietary layout and being a fricking oven without ventilation.
Agreed ... if you consider an SFF might aswell go Micro ATX with a DIY build. If it already has to stand next/under or ontop of your desk what is a few cm/inches more width and depth going to change. If raw power isn't needed then sure a mini pc is great and can be tucked onder a monitor or even behind it.
i would love a Shuttle (i have an athlon XP one) in LGA1155 but these still command a premium it seems ... and the GPU doesn't get any extra airflow/cooling.
I had it in mind to shoehorn a uATX mobo into my HP SFF's case. Yes it would require drilling out some rivets. Yes I may need to fire up the moto tool. But when I took a scant few minutes to look it all over it seemed a lot less involved then previously suspected. sourcing a suitable hs/fan would be the biggest challenge. A sfx p/s would be needed. An interesting concept. Yeah you might need to pull some extra hot air out depending on what you were running.
Turns out though I bought a cheap Asus Z11? mini itx case though. Freaking beautiful. Thick aluminum plates and tempered glass. And mind you it is w/o a doubt the honking biggest mini it's case ever made. With yet more surgery I have in mind to mount a blade server board in it. I don't think any other case I own would work. It's possibly the tallest I own.
G-X wrote on 2024-08-22, 21:23:Forgot to add i'm looking into XP only.
Your choice. Any support for 1 would be beneficial.
Is it true though that Server 2003 SP sumtin sumtin is a fictional equivalent of XP? XP 64 bit?
My little book PC is not a dev system, but rather a demo. So says the box. AMD Geode lx-db800:
https://media.digikey.com/pdf/Data%20Sheets/L … %20LX%20800.pdf
Can't find the laptop style brick. No one's losing sleep I'm sure.
Agreed ... if you consider an SFF might aswell go Micro ATX with a DIY build.
To clarify - SFF is still an option, but only stuff like Optiplex 780/980 SFF, which is noticeably smaller, while still having 2 expansion slots.
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
If someone is interested in going the DIY route, these are pretty awesome prices for a motherboard you can just buy without having to hunt around for overpriced used stuff on ebay:
B75 ITX motherboard + i3 3240 + 8GB DDR3 for $25
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804955777543.html
H81 ITX motherboard + i5 4590 + 16GB DDR3 for $53
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806808137487.html
There are tons of other options too.
https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-itx-mot … ctlist.search.0
If you already have an old 3rd or 4th Gen CPU and some DDR3 laying around you can get just an ITX motherboard for under $30.
Like this B85 board for $20...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807223047663.html
It even has an NVMe slot if you need such a thing. Honestly this is kind of incredible for the price. Has anyone here ever used one of these JINGSHA boards?
EDIT: Throw the board in one of these cases and you can use the included PCI-E riser to have a full height (but obviously still small) GPU in an ITX case:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806467243079.html
These cases are a thicker than something like an HP T730, but are smaller in height and depth.
Fitting cooling and a GPU would obviously be the biggest challenge. I'm not sure what is possible in that regard yet without doing more research. An i5 4590T or 3570T would probably be a great CPU for something like this though. GPU-wise, the 170MM limit on the length is going to be hard to overcome in a single-slot card, and it sadly rules out the K2200 (affordable, fast, slim, abundant).
If there are any similar options for boards that have a PCI-E and a standard PCI slot, that could be a really awesome all-around solution, though if you can use a full height PCI-E sound card (with a second riser) then that opens up lots of options for newer X-Fi models that still do EAX under XP. You could probably use an NVMe to PCI-E x1 adapter to connect a sound card on one of the boards mentioned above.
More than likely, there are cases that are a bit larger which alleviate a lot of these struggles while still being smaller than the average low-profile SFF system. This is close, but still the max GPU length is just ~10mm too short for a fast single-slot card like the K2200.
EDIT2: If you don't want to mess with an NVMe to PCI-E adapter, there are boards slightly longer than Mini-ITX that have two PCI-E slots... https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806378290098.html
I imagine that if you look around a bit on Aliexpress you'll find a case designed to fit these boards too.
There are also super low profile coolers that cost practically nothing...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806789312257.html
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805765437592.html
Ozzuneoj wrote on 2024-08-23, 03:42:Like this B85 board for $20...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807223047663.htmlIt even has an NVMe slot if you need such a thing. Honestly this is kind of incredible for the price. Has anyone here ever used one of these JINGSHA boards?
Well, I have a Jingsha X99-D8 motherboard with C612 chipset, it works very well except for a hardware design error by which the Intel ME does not work properly so it has it removed in the BIOS and takes quite a long time to do the POST. It is usual in the motherboards of these brands is common to find strange details, but they are not as bad as many say, it is not that the big brands never make motherboards with major flaws.
Personally I like how they are able to recycle components and create things that in theory should not exist as a Socket 2011-3 motherboard with support for quad channel and any processor created for that socket, with support for NVME and a B85 chipset. Strange but functional things.
I have both a T730 and an HP Elite 8300 SFF.
The Elite 8300 is better than the T730, I know through actual use and experience of them.
It has an I7 3770, 16Gb RAM, GTX 750Ti and a 1Tb SSHD. It performs much better in games, and so far has played every game Ive ever tried to.
It has a double slot for PCIe graphics, but it is low profile. There are also other useable slots at the same time. PCI and a PCIe 1x.
Its a decent little XP gaming PC. Much better than the T730 is.
And like I said I know it is because Ive both.
HP Elite 8300 SFF is about the same size as a normal slim microATX case with lots of drawbacks, since it's a proprietary BTX design.
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-23, 08:53:HP Elite 8300 SFF is about the same size as a normal slim microATX case with lots of drawbacks, since it's a proprietary BTX design.
Im not sure why that matters.
It is the same size yes. There is a trade off off size and graphics power.
If small size is what you want then an HP EliteDesk G1 Mini would be much smaller than a T730.
A T730 is a nice medium between size and graphics power. Its graphics is the weak point in the system.
Then you have the microATX systems, which are bigger but add much more power in the graphics.
The T730 is a case with a lot of drawbacks, it limits you to a single slot card and it also kinda needs to be half height too. Then its proprietary design too just like the BTX system is.
The T730 has more problems than the SFF systems do, and some of those problems are the same.
T730 is good for pfSense... I use it for other reasons particular to my setup, but as an XP gaming machine starts to look like you need a job for it because its not the best at anything.
Another interesting option is Acer Aspire X1935 and maybe other models on this chassis.
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
HP ProDesk 400 G2.5 also looks like an interesting candidate. i7-4790s, optical drive bay, 2 PCIe slots in very small size with official Windows XP support.
I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.
(off topicish)
Ozzuneoj wrote on 2024-08-23, 03:42:Like this B85 board for $20...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807223047663.htmlIt even has an NVMe slot if you need such a thing. Honestly this is kind of incredible for the price. Has anyone here ever used one of these JINGSHA boards?
Yep I've got a Szmz B75-MS aka Jingsha B75-A, which as motherboard naming tradition implies, has a Q77 chipset 😁
Complaints... well, first and foremost no standby (S3) support, no fan control at all (no big deal, once you try a passive cooler on one PC you don't go back, even though I had to mill off the base because of capacitors that got in the way), 100 Mbps ethernet (but this was advertised, and the micro ATX and/or Haswell models should be gigabit if you care), and the annoying position of the CPU power socket...
...and, well, the fact there's a SuperIO for apparently nothing - no serial port (missing level shifter and internal socket), no PS/2 (skimped on the socket), no fan control as mentioned, no floppy or parallel, so what it's there for? 😀
Ryccardo wrote on 2024-08-29, 15:29:(off topicish) […]
(off topicish)
Ozzuneoj wrote on 2024-08-23, 03:42:Like this B85 board for $20...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807223047663.htmlIt even has an NVMe slot if you need such a thing. Honestly this is kind of incredible for the price. Has anyone here ever used one of these JINGSHA boards?
Yep I've got a Szmz B75-MS aka Jingsha B75-A, which as motherboard naming tradition implies, has a Q77 chipset 😁
Complaints... well, first and foremost no standby (S3) support, no fan control at all (no big deal, once you try a passive cooler on one PC you don't go back, even though I had to mill off the base because of capacitors that got in the way), 100 Mbps ethernet (but this was advertised, and the micro ATX and/or Haswell models should be gigabit if you care), and the annoying position of the CPU power socket...
...and, well, the fact there's a SuperIO for apparently nothing - no serial port (missing level shifter and internal socket), no PS/2 (skimped on the socket), no fan control as mentioned, no floppy or parallel, so what it's there for? 😀
That is definitely good to know where they cut corners with these types of boards. The 100mbps ethernet and lack of S3 and fan controls seems pretty awful honestly. 🤣 I would be pretty miffed if I bought an ITX board and it was missing these features, even if it was only $20. I'd be curious to know if the others (like the ones I linked to) have similar deficiencies.
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-08-26, 20:28:HP ProDesk 400 G2.5 also looks like an interesting candidate. i7-4790s, optical drive bay, 2 PCIe slots in very small size with official Windows XP support.
The CPU would be a good choice.
Should be able to run a GTX 750 too
