Are there no USB ports on this UMPC ?

If there are are, and the BIOS supports making a USB keyboard appear as a legacy AT (PS/2) one to the operating system, it should work in DOS (if the BIOS has no such support, Bret Johnson has written some TSRs to add the support at runtime).

There may also be internal USB or PS/2 ports or headers that you could tap into into to connect a keyboard or, more practically, a wireless keyboard dongle.

As for a DOS based keyboard TSR, I don't know of any, unfortunately. Somebody here might be able to help or you might get lucky by looking through old shareware/freeware CDROMs. Many of those are archived and searchable.

Best of luck, either way.

There was definitely one implementation around back in the day for the GridPad series of machines. Though I do not recall if they implemented the touch screen like a mouse or not at the software end, so unsure if one can click it with a pointer. There were other implementations around for similar types of machines mostly used in warehouse/industrial as stock keeping computers etc.

I am not sure the appellation "virtual" was used much prior to mid 90s, so maybe you are looking for terms such as onscreen keyboard, OSK, pen keyboard (since most touch tech used a pen or stylus)

Windows 3.1 for pen computing has at least a virtual keyboard.

darry wrote on 2024-09-02, 14:01:

Are there no USB ports on this UMPC ? […]
Show full quote

Are there no USB ports on this UMPC ?

If there are are, and the BIOS supports making a USB keyboard appear as a legacy AT (PS/2) one to the operating system, it should work in DOS (if the BIOS has no such support, Bret Johnson has written some TSRs to add the support at runtime).

There may also be internal USB or PS/2 ports or headers that you could tap into into to connect a keyboard or, more practically, a wireless keyboard dongle.

As for a DOS based keyboard TSR, I don't know of any, unfortunately. Somebody here might be able to help or you might get lucky by looking through old shareware/freeware CDROMs. Many of those are archived and searchable.

Best of luck, either way.

It has multiple usb ports, using a usb keyboard (wired or wireless) is always an option, it’s just that it loses the appeal of being a handheld at that point.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-09-02, 14:50:

There was definitely one implementation around back in the day for the GridPad series of machines. Though I do not recall if they implemented the touch screen like a mouse or not at the software end, so unsure if one can click it with a pointer. There were other implementations around for similar types of machines mostly used in warehouse/industrial as stock keeping computers etc.

I am not sure the appellation "virtual" was used much prior to mid 90s, so maybe you are looking for terms such as onscreen keyboard, OSK, pen keyboard (since most touch tech used a pen or stylus)

Thanks for the advice, I’ll try some searching with those terms. Technically it is a touchscreen when using the included stylus but I doubt I would get that functionality in dos.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2024-09-02, 14:52:

Windows 3.1 for pen computing has at least a virtual keyboard.

Good to know, I figured there would be some Win3.11 virtual keyboard options.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-09-02, 15:03:

darry wrote on 2024-09-02, 14:01:

Are there no USB ports on this UMPC ? […]
Show full quote

Are there no USB ports on this UMPC ?

If there are are, and the BIOS supports making a USB keyboard appear as a legacy AT (PS/2) one to the operating system, it should work in DOS (if the BIOS has no such support, Bret Johnson has written some TSRs to add the support at runtime).

There may also be internal USB or PS/2 ports or headers that you could tap into into to connect a keyboard or, more practically, a wireless keyboard dongle.

As for a DOS based keyboard TSR, I don't know of any, unfortunately. Somebody here might be able to help or you might get lucky by looking through old shareware/freeware CDROMs. Many of those are archived and searchable.

Best of luck, either way.

It has multiple usb ports, using a usb keyboard (wired or wireless) is always an option, it’s just that it loses the appeal of being a handheld at that point.

I see what you mean, though I personally don't see the appeal of operating a DOS machine with a virtual keyboard (and I have tried), even if it is very well implemented and seamless (like in some DOSBox ports running on touchscreen based equipped Android devices).

How about using one of those tiny keyboards meant for settop Android TV boxes, etc ? If you can come up with a custom mounting solution that suits your preferences, one of those might allow to have a functional keyboard while preserving handheld operation.

Getting back to the onscreen/virtual keyboard concept, even if you do manage to find a way to get this working at the DOS command line, if you only have a mouse and cursor keys working in DOS games/software, I really can't imagine such a setup as being workable for most DOS programs I can think of personally wanting to use. Maybe your needs and use cases are different, but I suggest you consider how usable even the "best case theoretical scenario" would be (if you have not done so already), before pouring lots of effort into this.

That being said, maybe you can get some ideas from

https://www.bttr-software.de/freesoft/keyb.htm

Again, best of luck in finding something that works for you.

So, found this...
https://classicbits.net/library/?opt=91&dev=1 … GridPad_HD_1912
The "BIOS" link there also has the basic DOS 3.3 install that goes on the tiny internal SSD in those, so might have the keyboard util to run, orrrrr... it's a BIOS function.

But also other workarounds, like keystuffers and macro playback might be useful, bunch of them on these sites, check out index.txt on the simtel one to see what's there...
http://files.mpoli.fi/software/DOS/UTILS/KEYBOARD/
http://archive.retro.co.za/archive/computers/ … MSDOS/KEYBOARD/
Also digging around in those might find you some clues for feeding the keyboard buffer from other sources to help roll your own.

I think there's a way to abuse batch file utilities like choice.com and a mouse menu selection for batch files, that would allow you to write a rudimentary batch keyboard for command prompt entry, that then returns to the batch file for your next command. There's also I think some util that will let you map a keyboard command or macro to middle mouse button, handy to reinvoke batch file or to exit stuff maybe.

Also there's probably something around the Ham webosphere to let you type in morse code from a mouse button 🤣

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-09-02, 15:08:

Cyberdyne wrote on 2024-09-02, 14:52:

Windows 3.1 for pen computing has at least a virtual keyboard.

Good to know, I figured there would be some Win3.11 virtual keyboard options.

There's also Teclado. I've used it on 3.1 when I was a child, it has VB1 source code. Might run on Win 3.0, thus.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-09-02, 17:24:

Also there's probably something around the Ham webosphere to let you type in morse code from a mouse button 🤣

Yup. It's M2M, which became Mouse To Morse TNC.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-09-03, 04:40:

There's also Teclado. I've used it on 3.1 when I was a child, it has VB1 source code. Might run on Win 3.0, thus. […]
Show full quote

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-09-02, 15:08:

Cyberdyne wrote on 2024-09-02, 14:52:

Windows 3.1 for pen computing has at least a virtual keyboard.

Good to know, I figured there would be some Win3.11 virtual keyboard options.

There's also Teclado. I've used it on 3.1 when I was a child, it has VB1 source code. Might run on Win 3.0, thus.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-09-02, 17:24:

Also there's probably something around the Ham webosphere to let you type in morse code from a mouse button 🤣

Yup. It's M2M, which became Mouse To Morse TNC.

Thanks for the interesting links to play with. I’m hoping it doesn’t come to Mouse to Morse. Although some very basic mouse macros would be nice, so many DOS games want you to press Y to confirm quit.

FYI I did some quick tests, if you ever find yourself in vanilla Win3.11 and need to create batch files without a keyboard you can always load an existing file into notepad and copy/paste/cut. And character map exists too, useful for those rare characters that aren’t used much.

I didn't dig around quite far enough on that gridpad site, the page for the 386 model notes the required system software and "PENKBD.EXE" while also showing a pen mouse driver... if we are in luck, it works with a mouse driver loaded. Didn't see where the files were on that site, but found it here...
http://archives.oldskool.org/pub/drivers/unso … grid/allmodels/

I think I remember having to use that character map trick years ago on a machine with a half working keyboard.... I think I also was doing something similar in MSDOS EDIT which has mouse menus and DOSSHELL which I think could cut and paste into a command box, but not sure.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-09-02, 17:24:

I think there's a way to abuse batch file utilities like choice.com and a mouse menu selection for batch files, that would allow you to write a rudimentary batch keyboard for command prompt entry, that then returns to the batch file for your next command. There's also I think some util that will let you map a keyboard command or macro to middle mouse button, handy to reinvoke batch file or to exit stuff maybe.

That reminds me that Microsoft Mouse drivers for DOS - in the retail packaging where you also got Paintbrush - included some "Microsoft Mouse Menu" software, intended to add mouse support to software that lacked it. I'm pretty sure it was a TSR that would pop up a menu when you hit a mouse button, and then when you picked an option it would send some keystrokes. I'm not sure you could customise the menus, but I imagine that some old shovelware CDs would have had similar programs that were able to be customised.

That isn't a virtual keyboard but I suspect it might be even nicer for some programs one might run.

Also there's probably something around the Ham webosphere to let you type in morse code from a mouse button 🤣

🤣 that this is the option with the most definitive "yes, and here's the link" answer 😁

doshea wrote on 2024-09-07, 03:43:

🤣 that this is the option with the most definitive "yes, and here's the link" answer 😁

I respect the suggestion, but it's also an option I'm not terribly eager to pursue.

Hi, I have a half-baked solution, it is not ideal, but probably worth a try.

We seriously need some type of on screen keyboard for DOS. More than ever if
you consider the many non-standard keyboards we have in this day an age.

Be aware that this "solution" requires a 286 or better processor.

It is essentially a TSR ascii table that you can recall with a programable set
of keys from within a program (I used a text editor to try it). You select via
mouse + button click, or arrow keys + return key the desired characters. After
you end your desired input, you quit the program, and it leaves inserting the
characters you chose at the cursor position. You may also use a joystick if
you make it emulate a mouse (there are plenty of those mouse/joy programs
around).

The disadvantage is that it will be a little tricky to insert special function
keys this way. At least, you will have something better than morse code tendinitis!

https://www.sac.sk/download/utiltext/ascii350.zip

BinaryDemon wrote on 2024-09-07, 11:12:

I respect the suggestion, but it's also an option I'm not terribly eager to pursue.

Yeah, I don't think morse code has punctuation, let alone function keys? 😁

Heh, BE FINE FOR AN APPLE II EMULATOR 🤣

I was looking through some old magazine cover CDs from the year 2000 for something else but came across "MOUSKEYS", a DOS tool which appears to still be available from https://bretjohnson.us/ It's just described as "Lets you use your mouse with any program" but it's from Bret Johnson who has made some other very powerful software, so it might be worth a look.