This Macrium? Haven't used it myself but it reads like it works by making an NTFS shadow copy (to ensure consistency), then backing up that instead of the live data. Shadow copies where only introduced with WinXP though... and it appears NT4 can't deal with whatever gets left behind. Try using something less "smart" next time, like CloneZilla.

What disk controller are you using? If it is a generic IDE, then you can use a different machine with this disk attached and put a UniATA driver into your existing installation - perform the reverse of the removal instructions from the FAQ to install it: https://alter.org.ua/en/soft/win/uni_ata/unia … .php#reg_deinst

Simply connecting the drive to another PC can cause the filesystem identifier to change - Windows regenerates it if it is zero. The safer way of manipulating NT disks is using some live Linux recovery system, such as GRML or SystemRescueCD - they both have partimage for cloning and chntpw for NT registry manipulation.

V0LDY wrote on 2024-10-22, 17:26:

Hi, not sure if I have to post to a welcome topic but this is an emergency and I've been suggested to try find support here. […]
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Hi, not sure if I have to post to a welcome topic but this is an emergency and I've been suggested to try find support here.

I've tried creating a backup of a very old PC with Windows NT 4.0 (a Dell from 1998 with a Pentium III and 128 MB of RAM) since it was controlling some machinery and it was very old.
I took out the disk, attached it to another PC, created a disk image with Macrium, cloned it to another drive and tried it.
Didn't work, I got an error message. Disappointed, but not too bad since the original disk in theory was there...

The BIG problem is that now the original drives gives me the exact same error.
I boot the PC, it shows me NT bootloader (which makes me choose between 4.0 and 4.0 VGA mode), it shows the CPU name and RAM amount, then I get the error showed in the image.

This is the error screen:
https://i.imgur.com/l2wDqmE.png

Any clue? How can simply connecting the drive to another PC cause this? I feel like it's something really dumb but that might be super hard to fix, and unfortunately I'm not sure reinstalling everything is an option since it's super niche software that's 100% impossible to find anywhere.

Ehy there, the guy from the ducklings group that sent you here.

My hunch is that the boot section of the HDD got somewhat corrupted during cloning, that's why I never connect them directly to the PC when backing them up, using instead an USB adapter and being very carefull when removing them. Unfortunately I'm not as familiar with windows NT 4.0, so I don't know the precise instructions to guide you through a safe boot from an external device, but it's a test that should be performed. Try to see if NT 4.0 supports boot from CD-rom, since creating a bootable floppy could be a bigger hassle. Another test would be to use the new HDD to install a fresh copy of NT 4.0 and see if it boots without issues.

Also, try changing the CMOS battery. It if was never changed, it may be dead, and the bios may have restored itself to stock settings. And it's never a good idea to run a PC of that era on stock bios settings for long. Maybe also check the boot order and other boot options in the bios. Maybe removing the HDD and keeping the system off the power for long caused the CMOS to reset itself, causing a boot conflict that wasn't there before.
Having the exact model of the mobo could also help in finding an actual manual for it. No chance for you to open the machine and provide some pictures of any kind of markings on the MOBO?

elszgensa wrote on 2024-10-22, 17:56:

This Macrium? Haven't used it myself but it reads like it works by making an NTFS shadow copy (to ensure consistency), then backing up that instead of the live data. Shadow copies where only introduced with WinXP though... and it appears NT4 can't deal with whatever gets left behind. Try using something less "smart" next time, like CloneZilla.

I'm ok with the cloned disk not working, honestly I wasn't even sure it could work, the problem is that the original drive also stopped booting and gives the exact same error, that I can't expalin since I just plugged it into another PC and run the command to create an image.

Windows loves to write a signature on any disk it doesn't quite understand, often without asking, like it or not. Incredibly dangerous for those who want to dump a hard drive from an arcade game, for example.

That's why it's better to use one of those standalone disk copiers to get an exact copy.

If you use a tool that can display the contents of disk sectors, you'll see that part of the boot track has been overwritten. Unfortunately whatever was there was probably specific to your particular hardware.

V0LDY wrote on 2024-10-22, 17:26:

I took out the disk, attached it to another PC, created a disk image with Macrium, cloned it to another drive and tried it. Didn […]
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I took out the disk, attached it to another PC, created a disk image with Macrium, cloned it to another drive and tried it.
Didn't work, I got an error message. Disappointed, but not too bad since the original disk in theory was there...

The BIG problem is that now the original drives gives me the exact same error.
I boot the PC, it shows me NT bootloader (which makes me choose between 4.0 and 4.0 VGA mode), it shows the CPU name and RAM amount, then I get the error showed in the image.

What OS was running on the computer you hooked to for imaging ?
I would have connected to a XP computer and used an Acronis "Rescue CD" from an old version like 9, 10 or 11. The rescue cd boots a linux core iirc so the imaging computers OS does not touch the drive.
I never image hard drives using the installed software from the computers OS, always from a booted rescue cd and have never had an issue though have not done NT4 for a decade or so....
It is also possible the drive developed a bad sector just from moving the computer or HD if it original to that Dell....
added: just read the newer versions of Macrium use a WinPE rescue cd not a Linux based (not ideal IMHO as stated by others before me).....

The original drive no longer works on the original pc?
Is the error 0x0000007b?
I can't see imgur here.

If it is 0x0000007b, that means you need the correct driver for the ide.
If you can boot it on the original pc, you can find the drivers in regedit Hklm/.../currentcontrolset/services/driver name

Start up type must be 0 for it to load during the early boot process.
Look for anything that says ide/ata.
If it's 1,2,3,4 it's not losing early enough.

This is all from memory. It might not be totally accurate.

Weird. Imgur worked. Looks like you're moving from SCSI to ide?
That's the issue. SCSI is loaded but ide isn't.
See above

myne wrote on 2024-10-23, 03:05:

The original drive no longer works on the original pc? Is the error 0x0000007b? […]
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The original drive no longer works on the original pc?
Is the error 0x0000007b?

Weird. Imgur worked. Looks like you're moving from SCSI to ide?
That's the issue. SCSI is loaded but ide isn't.
See above

Yes, that's the error code.

Dunno what you mean by "moving from SCSI to IDE", as I said in theory I haven't touched the original drive

Well, something is different.
Did you plug it into the right ide controller?
I assume it is ide.
Is there a promise raid or something?

V0LDY wrote on 2024-10-23, 10:25:

myne wrote on 2024-10-23, 03:05:

The original drive no longer works on the original pc? Is the error 0x0000007b? […]
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The original drive no longer works on the original pc?
Is the error 0x0000007b?

Weird. Imgur worked. Looks like you're moving from SCSI to ide?
That's the issue. SCSI is loaded but ide isn't.
See above

Yes, that's the error code.

Dunno what you mean by "moving from SCSI to IDE", as I said in theory I haven't touched the original drive

OK, maybe you won't need to do what I had in mind, since someone knows exactly what that error code means.

Otherwise I would've tried to do a clean install of nt 4 on a new hdd, and then try to copy the boot section of it to the image of the old hdd, like a Dr. Frankenstein. Of course, this time use another way to copy everything to the backup location. Because it' apparent that hooking up the original HDD to the modern PC to perform a backup *ucked it up.

I doubt it's anything to do with the backup software.

It's 100% driver not loading. But why?
Most obvious mistake is plugging it in the wrong spot.

myne wrote on 2024-10-23, 12:03:

I doubt it's anything to do with the backup software.

It's 100% driver not loading. But why?
Most obvious mistake is plugging it in the wrong spot.

Couldn't it be that hooking up the old HDD directly into a modern window and just copying it with their own backup functionality flagged something in the drive itself? Or is it really just that the HDD was hooked back up in the original sistem incorrectly?

If new-fangled Windows mutilated the file system (or assigned it a new drive letter or something) so that NT4 now rejects it, it might be tough to identify what has changed in order to change it back. At the least you would need another NT4 disk to compare it with in a sector editor. (Somebody in the world probably knows what the mutilation would entail, but finding this kind of info on the internet tends to be hopeless now.)

I would try to get another HDD, put a FAT16 partition on it instead of NTFS, copy NT4 to it, and try to boot that.

I thought about reinstalling NT4, I tried it quickly on a spare HDD and it worked, albeit with some weird stuff happening.

Surprisingly the drivers are still available online, so it might be possible to have a properly working install, the problem is reinstalling the old proprietary software and configuring the machinery, that sound like a nightmare.

I doubt I can just copy and past stuff from the backups into the new os hoping it will work.

NT can work simply by formatting nfts and copying the files.
Done it many times.
But that's seriously unlikely to be the issue.

Somehow, it isn't loading the ide driver.

The most likely explanation is that it isn't plugged into the same controller.

What motherboard is it?
Pics of inside?

Since you have the files accessible on one computer, you should be able to open the registry hive.
Find the one for Hklm and export currentcontrolset to a reg file. Attach it here.

Should be in C:\Windows\System32\config\SYSTEM

V0LDY wrote on 2024-10-23, 16:00:

I thought about reinstalling NT4, I tried it quickly on a spare HDD and it worked, albeit with some weird stuff happening.

Surprisingly the drivers are still available online, so it might be possible to have a properly working install, the problem is reinstalling the old proprietary software and configuring the machinery, that sound like a nightmare.

I doubt I can just copy and past stuff from the backups into the new os hoping it will work.

Well, now you can try to copy that installation of Win NT 4.0 on the older image of the disk, and then boot it up with the full image again.

myne wrote on 2024-10-23, 16:11:

What motherboard is it? Pics of inside? […]
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What motherboard is it?
Pics of inside?

Since you have the files accessible on one computer, you should be able to open the registry hive.
Find the one for Hklm and export currentcontrolset to a reg file. Attach it here.

Should be in C:\Windows\System32\config\SYSTEM

Hmmm the stucture I see is a bit different, the folder in C is called WINNT, here's the content of C:\WINNT\system and C:\WINNT\SYSTEM32

https://we.tl/t-ZnHCZZY4HQ

Somehow, it isn't loading the ide driver.

The most likely explanation is that it isn't plugged into the same controller.

99% sure that's not the issue, the case has 2 slots for 3.5"HDDs, there is a single IDE cable able to reach those slots (never unplugged anything from the motherboard, which I can hardly reach without disassembling stuff because of how the case is built) and I haven't touched it, so it's either the connector I'm using now (which is the one that falls in the right position) or the other one on the same cable which straight up didn't see even load the bootloader, so that's most likely not the problem.

Btw, I've remembered I had a virtual machine running NT4.0 that I used a while ago to diagnose some foler sharing issues (ironically on that same machine), so I've tried copying the files from the backup to that virtual drive to see if I could make the software work.
Well, it gave errors, so I started adding more and more files from the backup to replace stuff in the VM until I just ended up replacing everything and... it worked, kinda... the software gives an error but it could very well be caused by the fact that it's missing something from the real hardware

Please look into event log.

This is your registry file for HKLM
I will attempt to open it, but I realised I'm on a shitty windows home right now and it cant

https://jchornsey.wordpress.com/2015/03/11/ac … in-windows-8-1/

And the second pic is the services.
0=boot
This is what the driver for the IDE needs to be set to.

If you can export the services key I can look at the .reg done. replied