Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-02-24, 14:13:

Interesting. I heard that some of these cards support 4 speaker surround, but my particular one doesn't seem to do that. At least there is no mention of that feature anywhere in the documentation.

Out of curiosity, did your card have a dedicated jack for the rear speakers? Or did they plug into one of the existing ports, which was then re-configured by the drivers?

Yes the "Aux In" is also the "Rear Speaker Out". You need to select Quadraphonic Speakers in the Windows Sound options (same panel to select the Hardware Acceleration and SRC). It will only work in DS3D games which specifically have Quad speaker support built in.

CT4750 with 4 Speaker + SPDIF

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-02-15, 10:33:

Speaking of which, General MIDI works by using ECW sets for the softsynth, which is Ensoniq's proprietary format. The driver CD contains three sets in total: 2MB, 4MB and 8MB with the last one arguably providing the best quality. You can switch between these sets from the driver panel at any time. Apparently, the 8MB ECW set also supports GS sounds + 10 drum kits. This card doesn't support soundfont loading (.SBK and .SF2 files) only the aforementioned ECW sets. The driver panel also allows you to use an external MIDI device instead of the softsynth, but unfortunately, this only works for native Windows applications (e.g. Windows Media Player). DOS games will always use the softsynth, regardless of what you select in the driver options.

Why would one actually use the 2MB or 4MB sets when the 8MB is available? Is it a question of RAM used or am I missing something?
And in true Creative fashion, I have a CT4810 which doesn't have the same PCB, basically with a big transistor and a heatspreader on it.

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2024-04-19, 13:59:

Why would one actually use the 2MB or 4MB sets when the 8MB is available? Is it a question of RAM used or am I missing something?

Apparently, the 8MB set has some issues with MT-32 emulation.

And yeah, in the old days when many PCs had 32MB RAM total, some people would have used a smaller ECW set.

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2024-04-19, 13:59:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-02-15, 10:33:

Speaking of which, General MIDI works by using ECW sets for the softsynth, which is Ensoniq's proprietary format. The driver CD contains three sets in total: 2MB, 4MB and 8MB with the last one arguably providing the best quality. You can switch between these sets from the driver panel at any time. Apparently, the 8MB ECW set also supports GS sounds + 10 drum kits. This card doesn't support soundfont loading (.SBK and .SF2 files) only the aforementioned ECW sets. The driver panel also allows you to use an external MIDI device instead of the softsynth, but unfortunately, this only works for native Windows applications (e.g. Windows Media Player). DOS games will always use the softsynth, regardless of what you select in the driver options.

Why would one actually use the 2MB or 4MB sets when the 8MB is available? Is it a question of RAM used or am I missing something?
And in true Creative fashion, I have a CT4810 which doesn't have the same PCB, basically with a big transistor and a heatspreader on it.

This is a matter of taste, ultimately, but I think the 4MB CT sample is the best of the bunch. The 8MB one just sounds wrong to me in many ways.

Hi I don't know if some someone had the same problem. But I had an issue with the dos driver, if the pc was booted Dos. If I tried to play a game like Duke Nukem 3D the sound was only hearable on one speaker istead of stereo. The sound sounds also very ugly. So I have had a look into the file SBPCI.INI, which should be installed into the "C:/Progams/Creative/Audio/Dosdrv" directory. This file will be generated by Windows9x and it configures the dos driver. So I was wondering about these lines.

1;Digital Settings
2SPDIFMode=2

If sbinit.exe was called the output was configured as digital output. I don't know if somebody of you have a digital output on its Sound Blaster PCI 128 CT4810, but mine has it not. So I opened the settings of the "Creative Sound Blaster PCI 128" device inside the device manger and changed the output to analog mode only, like in this picture:

After windows reboot the SPDIFMode was changed to "0":

1;Digital Settings
2SPDIFMode=0

After calling SBINIT.COM again the sound output was set to analog and all sounds listens correctly.

Hi

Heres of Might and Magic 2 is not playing MIDI Music in this game for me with this sound card in windows 95.

Do midi music work for you? Maybe can be related with that my computer has also a integrated sound card? All the other DOS games are working fine with midi music... the issue is with this one.

4MB and 8MB presets for this card are absolutely HORRIBLE. They at first sounds ok or even better as the sound is more punchier but percussion is way too loud compared to melody and its very tiring very fast. Also generally sounds do not fit each-other at all.

2MB preset uses totally different samples and is one of the most if not most universal MIDI soundsets I have ever listened to. It pretty much works with every game. Sample fidelity is... 2MB so not the highest but its ok enough. At times it sounds like some SNES games but with far superior sample quality and without this irritating echo effect that they put in to SNES music. Echo can be enabled on SB128PCI and chorus but I do not remember if it can be done in DOS. Either way echo effect is cheesy and 2MB samples are great. Using 4/8MB just because they weight more is stupid. More is not always better.

General issue of MIDI patchsets is that individual patches may sound ok but together not so much. Even glorious SC-55 is guilty of that issue at places.
I mean sure it all depends on music but how come all SB 128PCI sounds fit together in every single MID file or game you throw at it but various sample banks not so much? Imho people should put more care and attention and actually make these banks while listening to various MIDI tracks and not just record samples, cut them and be like "sounds good" when playing single sample. Almost all SF2 files on Internets are garbage because people make them in this very way.

Another interesting tidbit is that EMU10K cards like Live! and Audigy (even 2Zs) seemingly use the same driver and seemingly use the same ECW presets but they don't really play MIDI in the same way as they just throw samples out without any special pre-processing and/or effects that ES137x chips do. So the same e.g. Tyrian music on the same 2MB ECW preset sounds glorious on SB 128PCI but at most "meh..." on Live!/Audigy. This is actually very bad because I love SB 128PCI MIDI and want to have it but then I would also like to have Audigy2ZS instead of SB128PCI... or just not need to have dozen of PCI slots taken by different sound cards. Also Emu10K driver has much better OPL emulation - it sounds actually pretty ok. It uses tons of processor power and so cannot be used on older computers but I guess its better to have CPU hungry Adlib emulation than whatever the heck Ensoniq made and called Adlib emulation that SB 128PCI has... it definitely is NOT Adlib emulation. More like a joke of the bad kind.

From other interresting tidbits:
1. You cannot disable OPL emulation
That is too bad because I wanted to marry ESS Solo-1 and its glorious ESFM with SB16 emulation from SB128PCI but this cannot be done. Same issue with Emu10K driver for DOS

2. There are different versions of SB128PCI and they use different drivers.
It make installing drivers at times quite irritating, especially when you have various SB128PCI cards.

3. Some older models can be used with Enoniq driver... or was it previous Enoniq card? I am literally not sure... but I guess its possible on some cards to use either Creative driver with SB16 compatibility or Ensoniq driver with Windows Sound System and SB Pro compatibility.

4. Can be used with SBEMU to get real OPL3 emulation.
Apparently. Need to test it and confirm... on my various SB128PCI models.

5. No 44.1KHz -> 48KHz conversion issues on this card.
Also why I used it for quite some time and only replaced with something sufficiently better to justify needing to use SSRC to convert 44.1KHz music to 48KHz. In this case cards like Live! 1024 or 5.1 Digital didn't do it for me. Kinda sound better but kinda not really. Audigy 1... same issue. Audigy 2 or 4 are definitely better and about the quality of Audigy SE or Live! 24-bit (it is literally the same card). Audigy 2ZS is pretty good though and arguably better than Live! 24-bit. Especially with hardware EAX. Unless you have dual core CPU and use XP then having to spend some CPU time on EAX is not an issue. I mean on single core running EAX3 on Live! 24-bit definitely caused CPU bound games to run much slower but on Pentium D or Core 2 it didn't really made any difference whatsoever.

Anyways, SB 128PCI ca play udial.wav without resampling just fine and has better fidelity than most integrated audio and definitely has better fidelity than something like Realtek ALC650.

---
Overall I would give this card 11/10 for the fact I owned this card (actually SB 64V PCI but its the same damn card) an played all late DOS gaming with MIDI on exactly this card and it is card I put to all my retro gaming PCs. Also because I used it for many years because of all that 48KHz nonsense that everyone was throwing at people.

BTW. Of course another sound card I put to all my retro PCs are ESS cards and for PCI-only systems its ESS Solo-1. Interresingly enough I have yet to hear much issues with udial.wav.
I mean these old cards aren't stellar with killer samples anyways so there is some whistling at the interresting modents in udial.wav but its rather subtle. All Live! and Audigy cards play sounds of robots and other unearthly phenomena and the same is for all Realtek codecs (so also Nvidia SoundStorm !) and many many more sound cards. SB 128PCI being free from that nonsense and having effectively 15-bit resolution (~90dB in RMAA versus 96dB as it should have for 16-bit. Only Audigy 2ZS from cards I just mentioned have 96dB. Live! 24-bit has about 93dB so half bit better than SB 128PCI... also better analog amplification and 24-bit 96KHz and all that stuff which made it better sounding card)

I have two ES1371 cards as well, and while the FM synth is far from great, PCM sound is fine, especially when using appropriately mediocre speakers.
Oh, and for those, don't get the drivers from the Creative site. They only have one driver for 9x, and that lacks the MPU-401 emulation part. So hunt down the original driver if you want/need DOS support.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-02-15, 10:33:

To be specific, I'm reviewing the card pictured above. The model number is CT4810 but the markings on the main chip show CT5880- […]
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The attachment SB128.jpg is no longer available

To be specific, I'm reviewing the card pictured above. The model number is CT4810 but the markings on the main chip show CT5880-DCQ. I'm pointing that out because this card belongs to the Ensoniq Audio PCI family, of which there are many variants floating around, and some of them have different feature sets. The drivers I'm using are from the accompanying CD and they support Windows 95/98/NT4.0/2000/Millennium. For the record, this card came with a Socket A system that I got way back in early 2001. I was using it on a daily basis for about 4 years, so I'm familiar with all of its quirks and shortcomings. Anyway, let's start off with what this card can do.

Supported features

• DirectSound3D, EAX 1.0 and A3D 1.0
• Sound Blaster emulation for DOS games (SB16 and SBPro compatible)
• FM synth emulation for DOS games (terrible implementation)
• General MIDI softsynth with 128-voice polyphony (usable in both in Windows and DOS)
• MT-32 emulation for DOS games (no custom instruments)
• Spatial 3D audio control for all audio sources
• Reverb and Chorus control for MIDI playback
• Analog or digital (SPDIF) output

Windows game compatibility

Under Win9x, the Sound Blaster PCI 128 provides DirectSound3D support, as well as software emulated EAX 1.0 and A3D 1.0. As you can imagine, the last two don't sound so great, and using them will put an extra load on your CPU because of the emulation. The positional audio of this particular A3D implementation is kind of lackluster, while EAX can sound "scratchy" in some games. DirectSound3D works well enough, and I didn't notice any issues there. From the volume mixer, you can enable a "Spatial" 3D effect for all audio sources. Personally, I'm not a fan of this, as it just distorts the sound in arbitrary ways. Also, you can enable Reverb and Chorus effects for MIDI playback, if you like that sort of thing.

Speaking of which, General MIDI works by using ECW sets for the softsynth, which is Ensoniq's proprietary format. The driver CD contains three sets in total: 2MB, 4MB and 8MB with the last one arguably providing the best quality. You can switch between these sets from the driver panel at any time. Apparently, the 8MB ECW set also supports GS sounds + 10 drum kits. This card doesn't support soundfont loading (.SBK and .SF2 files) only the aforementioned ECW sets. The driver panel also allows you to use an external MIDI device instead of the softsynth, but unfortunately, this only works for native Windows applications (e.g. Windows Media Player). DOS games will always use the softsynth, regardless of what you select in the driver options.

The attachment SB128_Properties.jpg is no longer available

The analog output of this card is reasonably clean, but there are some occasional clicks and pops when starting a game for the first time. Thankfully, the card can also output digital audio, if you select that option from the driver panel. To clarify, you still use the green audio jack for this, but it will be switched to SPDIF mode. To utilize this, you need a mono 3.5mm to RCA adapter which you plug into the card's green jack, and then connect the other end to a regular coaxial SPDIF cable. Using the card in this mode gets rid of the clicks and pops entirely. Note that if you set the card to digital output within Windows, this will carry over to pure DOS as well. Meaning, you can restart your computer in MS-DOS mode and still have fully working SPDIF output. Interestingly, even analog sources like CD audio can be mixed in and output via SPDIF, as long as you select the relevant option in the driver panel.

DOS game compatibility

This card features SB16 and SBPro emulation for DOS games. The compatibility is pretty decent with later DOS titles (1994 and up), though you may encounter some issues with older games. Be advised that the card's DOS drivers require EMM386.EXE to be loaded, which some games like Turrican II don't like. During my tests, I haven't noticed any DMA clicking or distortions with digital audio. Interestingly, this card seems to properly support SBPro stereo, so if you select "Sound Blaster Pro" in a game's setup, you will get actual stereo sound. Of course, SB16 compatibility works fine as well. One thing that didn't seem to work was ADPCM i.e. there were no digital sound effects in Duke Nukem 2.

General MIDI works fine in pure DOS, and uses the same ECW sets that I mentioned earlier. To me, the instruments from those sets sound a bit bland (even with the 8MB ECW file) but they do the job well enough I suppose. The drivers feature a very basic mixer for pure DOS, which allows you to adjust the volume for digital audio, MIDI and CD audio. There is no setting for Line In or Microphone. However, the mixer does allow you to turn on MT-32 emulation. This can be useful for MT-32 games which don't use custom instruments such as Monkey Island.

The attachment SB128_DOS_Mixer.jpg is no longer available

And now we come to the worst feature of this sound card: the horrible FM synth emulation. It's truly awful, and every track from every game sounds incredibly broken when FM synth is selected. In short, if you plan on playing older DOS games which only support FM synth music, don't use this card. You can find some recordings below which showcase just how bad this sounds.

• Sound Blaster PCI 128 - FM synth emulation
• Sound Blaster PCI 128 - General MIDI (8MB ECW)
• Sound Blaster PCI 128 - MT32 emulation

Conclusion

The Sound Blaster PCI 128 is a very basic Win9x sound card, with average DOS compatibility. It can be useful if you want to play late DOS titles and early Win9x games, but not for much else. A Sound Blaster Live! or Audigy card would be superior in every way, since those cards can do everything that the SB128 can, only better. The only redeeming quality of the SB128 is the SPDIF output, which works flawlessly in pure DOS, and doesn't need third-party tools to initialize that functionality. All in all, if you can get something better, skip this card.

wnere can I download drivers for windows 2000 for this sound card? can't find it

psaez wrote on 2024-08-14, 11:56:

wnere can I download drivers for windows 2000 for this sound card? can't find it

There are many versions of this card, and I'm not sure all of them have Windows 2000 compatible drivers.

The later ones, such as the one I have, did support it. Try the driver CD image from here and see if that works. Be sure to install WDM drivers.

EDIT - updated driver link

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-08-14, 12:20:

psaez wrote on 2024-08-14, 11:56:

wnere can I download drivers for windows 2000 for this sound card? can't find it

There are many versions of this card, and I'm not sure all of them have Windows 2000 compatible drivers.

The later ones, such as the one I have, did support it. Try the driver CD image from here and see if that works. Be sure to install WDM drivers.

How can I know if it's WDM driver? what happens if I install a driver that isn't?

I found this driver: SBAudioSetup_W2k

psaez wrote on 2024-08-14, 12:53:

How can I know if it's WDM driver? what happens if I install a driver that isn't?

Simple, the driver won't work under Windows 2000 unless it's WDM.

I don't remember the exact installation procedure as I haven't used that card under Win2K in many, many years. Check the readme and user's guide on the CD and follow the instructions there.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-02-15, 11:11:

BTW, I noticed that there's a driver CD image for the SB128 on archive.org. I checked it against my own CD, and it looks like mi […]
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BTW, I noticed that there's a driver CD image for the SB128 on archive.org. I checked it against my own CD, and it looks like mine is slightly newer, and my image is a bit larger. The DISK.ID of my CD is as follows:

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1Sound Blaster AudioPCI 128
2S128-CDS1D-W1-E6
3(MID : 9x-32767 WDM-32454 NT4-32769)

Not sure if that makes any difference, but I can upload my image somewhere if anyone wants it.

By popular demand, I've uploaded my driver CD image here on Vogonsdrivers.

Unlike most other images out there, mine officially supports Windows 2000 and Windows Millennium due to being slightly newer. Enjoy!

Phil just posted a nice video review of this card.

He showcases it in great detail, so it's well worth taking a look.

Looks like that video sparked some demand for that card, as a bunch of them have sold on Ebay today.

I immediately thought of this thread when I saw Phil’s video

🤣... still have my es1371 that I bought new back in the day and used for a while in the first PC that I built... for some reason I've hung onto it for all these years thinking that one day... one day... I'll find a use for it in a build. That day has not come yet. 😀

What is the difference between CT4810 with CT5880 chip and CT4810 with CT2518 chip?

And why do you call this card Sound Blaster 128 when it should be called Creative Ensoniq Audio PCI? https://nomoregoatsoup.wordpress.com/model-index/

The pci 128 should be CT4700 or CT4750 or CT4751

So the drivers should be these: https://archive.org/search?query=creative+ensoniq+

This card is 100 % compatible with Windows 3.1/11... Great card !