Cool finds folks.

Just got something off the curb that doesn't know it's a computer part yet.. a multi bottle wooden wine box. It's about 15" and a bit by 13" and a bit, by 4" and a bit internally. Kind of about the same size as some LPX systems. I am thinking of "Casing up a good vintage" in it, maybe a 386 class, maybe a 286, heh, I've got that "concord" board, that's the name of a grape... yeah I might have to go that way now.

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-10-12, 22:21:

Cool finds folks.

Just got something off the curb that doesn't know it's a computer part yet.. a multi bottle wooden wine box. It's about 15" and a bit by 13" and a bit, by 4" and a bit internally. Kind of about the same size as some LPX systems. I am thinking of "Casing up a good vintage" in it, maybe a 386 class, maybe a 286, heh, I've got that "concord" board, that's the name of a grape... yeah I might have to go that way now.

Really like this idea, kind of a low tech 286 setup.
Besides this takes LGR's woodgrain 486 to a whole new level!

We decommissioned about 20 Brocade switches at work, and look who is inside!

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2024-10-25, 11:30:

We decommissioned about 20 Brocade switches at work, and look who is inside! […]
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We decommissioned about 20 Brocade switches at work, and look who is inside!

That's directly for 20 retro rigs 😎

Minutemanqvs wrote on 2024-10-25, 11:30:

We decommissioned about 20 Brocade switches at work, and look who is inside!

That's a great find! Sadly only those interested in retro computing know its value; most people with access to those retired and "small" industrial CF cards might simply dump them to e-waste.

Just got this yesterday for free from someone that found it in their loft:

Gateway 2000 G6-233.

Specs:
Pentium II 233Mhz
Riva 128 4mb
Ensonic Audio PCI
64Mb RAM

Condition is excellent. Powers on ok. Though the Quantum Fireball HDD is clearly dead. Makes the most terrible noise, so I unplugged it.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-27, 06:04:

Just got this yesterday for free from someone that found it in their loft: […]
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Just got this yesterday for free from someone that found it in their loft:

The attachment 20241027_055741.jpg is no longer available

The attachment 20241027_055715.jpg is no longer available

Gateway 2000 G6-233.

Specs:
Pentium II 233Mhz
Riva 128 4mb
Ensonic Audio PCI
64Mb RAM

Condition is excellent. Powers on ok. Though the Quantum Fireball HDD is clearly dead. Makes the most terrible noise, so I unplugged it.

That's a really nice find! 440LX was overshadowed by its excellent predecessor (430TX) and successor (440BX) but was still a solid board, especially made by Intel itself (AL440LX Atlanta).

dormcat wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:05:

That's a really nice find! 440LX was overshadowed by its excellent predecessor (430TX) and successor (440BX) but was still a solid board, especially made by Intel itself (AL440LX Atlanta).

Yes, thats true.

I really like this PC case. I am debating whether or not I should replace the innards of this PC to something a little faster.

I already have a Pentium MMX PC @300Mhz with a Riva 128. I think that PC is probably going to perform similarly to, or maybe better than, this one. Though I haven't compared them yet.

Maybe could change to a Pentium II 400 with Voodoo 2 SLI and Riva TNT. I also want to replace that PSU with a modern one.

Nice find, PII 350, 400, 450 are all 100Mhz FSB CPUs, the 440LX officially supports only 66mhz, but you can often get 68, 75, 83 out of them. So best official support in LX boards is for Celeron mendocino 533 in a slotket, or I think they made 400mhz in a cartridge. Mendocino celerons aren't much slower and can often be faster, full speed cache vs 1/2 1/3 or some weird ratio on PII and first gen PIII even if they have more of it. There are solutions to go even faster, but they have got to prices in the several hundred dollars, and really you only get about 2/3 of the "headline" performance from them.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:30:

Yes, thats true. […]
Show full quote

dormcat wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:05:

That's a really nice find! 440LX was overshadowed by its excellent predecessor (430TX) and successor (440BX) but was still a solid board, especially made by Intel itself (AL440LX Atlanta).

Yes, thats true.

I really like this PC case. I am debating whether or not I should replace the innards of this PC to something a little faster.

I already have a Pentium MMX PC @300Mhz with a Riva 128. I think that PC is probably going to perform similarly to, or maybe better than, this one. Though I haven't compared them yet.

Maybe could change to a Pentium II 400 with Voodoo 2 SLI and Riva TNT. I also want to replace that PSU with a modern one.

Keep it stock.
I think the components in it captures a unique timeperiod in the PC history.
Early ATX, early AGP, early USB, early integrated 2D/3D Graphicscard and early PCI soundcard.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:30:

Yes, thats true. […]
Show full quote

dormcat wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:05:

That's a really nice find! 440LX was overshadowed by its excellent predecessor (430TX) and successor (440BX) but was still a solid board, especially made by Intel itself (AL440LX Atlanta).

Yes, thats true.

I really like this PC case. I am debating whether or not I should replace the innards of this PC to something a little faster.

I already have a Pentium MMX PC @300Mhz with a Riva 128. I think that PC is probably going to perform similarly to, or maybe better than, this one. Though I haven't compared them yet.

Maybe could change to a Pentium II 400 with Voodoo 2 SLI and Riva TNT. I also want to replace that PSU with a modern one.

Nice, I've got practically the same system but Dell, the Dell Dimension XPS D233 desktop. I've upgraded the CPU since I don't like the power consumption / heat generation of Klamath CPUs, right now it's got a Deschutes 333MHz but I've also run it with a 500MHz Mendocino Celeron which was a little quicker.
Other than that it's a system that I've left mostly stock and complete because it's mostly original and not so common.

From the pictures of the innards I think your board is also an Intel AL440LX, my Dell has the same mainboard but with onboard Yamaha OPL3-SAx audio + wavetable and the PSU connector is wired for the Dell PSU in there still.

That power supply doesn't look like standard ATX and maybe isn't standard SFX either? Power supply sizes were all over the place in ATX / mATX OEM cases. Does the PSU make any dodgy noises? If not then I'd leave it as is, I recall that Astec are a decent PSU manufacturer. If you do have to replace it though, I've found TFX power supplies are great for replacing custom PSUs with a 3d printed / basic metal bracket to hold it in place.

Thermalwrong wrote on 2024-10-27, 19:15:

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:30:

I also want to replace that PSU with a modern one.

That power supply doesn't look like standard ATX and maybe isn't standard SFX either? Power supply sizes were all over the place in ATX / mATX OEM cases. Does the PSU make any dodgy noises? If not then I'd leave it as is, I recall that Astec are a decent PSU manufacturer. If you do have to replace it though, I've found TFX power supplies are great for replacing custom PSUs with a 3d printed / basic metal bracket to hold it in place.

Methinks the model number says it all: ASTEC MODEL ATX202-3515 😁
It's still readily available for purchase online, new or used.

I also suggest keeping the PSU as long as it provides correct voltages; you might want to test with a power supply tester. The -5V rail (0.3A max), required by some ISA cards, is not available on modern ATX PSU. With a modern PSU you might need some mods like Voltage Blaster for ISA cards to work correctly.

BTW, is the card on PCI #4 an internal modem? The black box looks like an IBM Telepermit design or something similar.

bofh.fromhell wrote on 2024-10-27, 18:48:

Keep it stock.
I think the components in it capture a unique time period in the PC history.
Early ATX, early AGP, early USB, early integrated 2D/3D Graphicscard and early PCI soundcard.

Yes, that's a valid point of view for sure. I would certainly do that if I had the space to keep a retro museum type display. Unfortunately, I only have space for 7 desktop PCs. This PC case is probably the best condition horizontal one that I have now, so I want to use it.

But, as I said, it's specs are not far different to my Pentium MMX 300 Mhz PC, and I definitely want to keep that one. So not sure it makes sense to have both in their current configurations.

I will benchmark the two and see if the Riva 128 + Voodoo 1 do much better in the PII machine. If they do, then perhaps a case can be made for keeping both but leaving the MMX machine for non 3D accelerated titles. I don't want to lose compatability with some of the early 3DFX Glide titles though. Pod in particular can be fussy I think.

Thermalwrong wrote on 2024-10-27, 19:15:

Nice, I've got practically the same system but Dell, the Dell Dimension XPS D233 desktop. I've upgraded the CPU since I don't like the power consumption / heat generation of Klamath CPUs, right now it's got a Deschutes 333MHz but I've also run it with a 500MHz Mendocino Celeron which was a little quicker.
Other than that it's a system that I've left mostly stock and complete because it's mostly original and not so common.

Is it uncommon? I know PII was very expensive when first released, compared to the Pentium MMX and AMD alternatives. So, I guess that would explain it.

Thermalwrong wrote on 2024-10-27, 19:15:

That power supply doesn't look like standard ATX and maybe isn't standard SFX either? Power supply sizes were all over the place in ATX / mATX OEM cases. Does the PSU make any dodgy noises? If not then I'd leave it as is, I recall that Astec are a decent PSU manufacturer. If you do have to replace it though, I've found TFX power supplies are great for replacing custom PSUs with a 3d printed / basic metal bracket to hold it in place.

The PSU is a little noisy, yes. The fan is external though, so I guess it's fairly easy to swap for something quieter.

dormcat wrote on 2024-10-27, 19:45:

Methinks the model number says it all: ASTEC MODEL ATX202-3515 😁
It's still readily available for purchase online, new or used.

I also suggest keeping the PSU as long as it provides correct voltages; you might want to test with a power supply tester. The -5V rail (0.3A max), required by some ISA cards, is not available on modern ATX PSU. With a modern PSU you might need some mods like Voltage Blaster for ISA cards to work correctly.

My worry with old PSUs is that they could suddenly fail and take the retro hardware with it through a voltage spike or similar.

dormcat wrote on 2024-10-27, 19:45:

BTW, is the card on PCI #4 an internal modem? The black box looks like an IBM Telepermit design or something similar.

Yes, it seems to be. I was going to remove that. I have no need for it, obviously.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:30:

Yes, thats true. […]
Show full quote

dormcat wrote on 2024-10-27, 09:05:

That's a really nice find! 440LX was overshadowed by its excellent predecessor (430TX) and successor (440BX) but was still a solid board, especially made by Intel itself (AL440LX Atlanta).

Yes, thats true.

I really like this PC case. I am debating whether or not I should replace the innards of this PC to something a little faster.

I already have a Pentium MMX PC @300Mhz with a Riva 128. I think that PC is probably going to perform similarly to, or maybe better than, this one. Though I haven't compared them yet.

Maybe could change to a Pentium II 400 with Voodoo 2 SLI and Riva TNT. I also want to replace that PSU with a modern one.

Oh great another Win9x build for your Cupboard! 😜
Jokes aside, I'd have this fill in for your MMX build and downgrade the MMX so it can stand in for your earlier systems, at least until you find a 486, 286, or whichever you decide you want.

chinny22 wrote on 2024-10-27, 23:45:

Oh great another Win9x build for your Cupboard! 😜
Jokes aside, I'd have this fill in for your MMX build and downgrade the MMX so it can stand in for your earlier systems, at least until you find a 486, 286, or whichever you decide you want.

Having slept on it, I have come to the same conclusion. Though, the issue with that may be the amount of RAM in the MMX machine. I think some 386 and 486 games may not like the 128Mb that's currently in it. I think 64mb is the smallest SDRAM size I have. But isn't that still too much? I guess I could use a DOS utility like Himemx to make it appear like there is less RAM.

I'm also going to put a vote down as to keeping that Astec PSU above.
Astec PSUs weren't just "decent" - they are top-notch retro PSUs with all-Japanese capacitors.
Indeed, however, their fans tend to be on the loud side. This is usually due to these two reasons:
1) Astec was more concerned about keeping the PSU cool than fan noise. As such, they probably went a little overkill with their fan controllers, because just about every Astec PSU I've ran into seems to run its fan faster than necessary.
2) Astec PSUs typically used Nidec ball bearing fans (IIRC), which even when set to run at lower speeds will be rather loud.

So having an already loud fan cranked to run at relatively high voltage (high speed) tends to make these PSUs louder than necessary.
Once solution is to replace the fan with a less powerful one... and maybe even sleeve bearing.
The other solution is to go in there (inside the PSU) and reverse-trace the fan controller, then tweak it to make the fan run slower... yet make sure it's not slowed down too much as to let the PSU overheat, particularly at high loads or high room/case temperatures.

So yeah... replacing the fan is probably the easier solution. You'll still likely hear some fan noise form the PSU, though - mostly in the form of the air "wooshing" through the PSU vents, as these older PSUs with such type of restrictive vents always tend to make a bit of noise even with quiet fans.

momaka wrote on 2024-11-01, 14:30:

I'm also going to put a vote down as to keeping that Astec PSU above. Astec PSUs weren't just "decent" - they are top-notch retr […]
Show full quote

I'm also going to put a vote down as to keeping that Astec PSU above.
Astec PSUs weren't just "decent" - they are top-notch retro PSUs with all-Japanese capacitors.
Indeed, however, their fans tend to be on the loud side. This is usually due to these two reasons:
1) Astec was more concerned about keeping the PSU cool than fan noise. As such, they probably went a little overkill with their fan controllers, because just about every Astec PSU I've ran into seems to run its fan faster than necessary.
2) Astec PSUs typically used Nidec ball bearing fans (IIRC), which even when set to run at lower speeds will be rather loud.

So having an already loud fan cranked to run at relatively high voltage (high speed) tends to make these PSUs louder than necessary.
Once solution is to replace the fan with a less powerful one... and maybe even sleeve bearing.
The other solution is to go in there (inside the PSU) and reverse-trace the fan controller, then tweak it to make the fan run slower... yet make sure it's not slowed down too much as to let the PSU overheat, particularly at high loads or high room/case temperatures.

So yeah... replacing the fan is probably the easier solution. You'll still likely hear some fan noise form the PSU, though - mostly in the form of the air "wooshing" through the PSU vents, as these older PSUs with such type of restrictive vents always tend to make a bit of noise even with quiet fans.

Ok. Good to know that the PSU is worth keeping. Saves me money in replacing it. Haha. As for the fan, it's actually OK in volume. The fan making the noise turned out to be the CPU fan. I will replace it with a new one. Probably a bigger one that runs slower, and jerryrig it on there somehow.

See pic below. Original fan below CPU, fan I am thinking of using above CPU (yes, it needs a clean!):

I also am considering what to do about the soundcard. Do I keep the Ensonic Audio PCI card, or should I add an Aztech ISA card for better DOS sound. Just to be different from the soundblasters I have in other PCs. I think it sounds very close to OPL3. Not sure if it has genuine yamaha OPL3 or not inside.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-11-01, 15:20:

I also am considering what to do about the soundcard. Do I keep the Ensonic Audio PCI card, or should I add an Aztech ISA card for better DOS sound. Just to be different from the soundblasters I have in other PCs. I think it sounds very close to OPL3. Not sure if it has genuine yamaha OPL3 or not inside.

There's late model ISA cards with OPL3 and DirectSound/3d support in windows. If you're trying to do both DOS and windows at the same time.

Yamaha YMF-715 to 719, and others.

RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-11-01, 15:20:

The fan making the noise turned out to be the CPU fan. I will replace it with a new one. Probably a bigger one that runs slower, and jerryrig it on there somehow.

See pic below. Original fan below CPU, fan I am thinking of using above CPU (yes, it needs a clean!):

Yes, these old small CPU fans are often the largest noise makers too.
That 60 mm fan should be able to push a lot more air with a lot less noise. If you have a 2nd identical one, maybe install both (and run their power in series so they run at 6V).
... or, I'd go even a step further and put an 80 or 92 mm fan (provided there is no object to obstruct anything above the CPU) on the heatsink, then run it at 5V-7V for pretty much silent operation. Yes, the fan will "stick out" a little on top, but that'll be fine.
Alternatively, you can attach a 120 mm fan on the (top) side of the CPU to push air down towards the board (so sideways through the CPU heatsink fins). This will not only cool the CPU well, but also the chipset and RAM. Might be easier to attach the fan that way too.

momaka wrote on 2024-11-04, 15:42:

Yes, these old small CPU fans are often the largest noise makers too. That 60 mm fan should be able to push a lot more air with […]
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RetroPCCupboard wrote on 2024-11-01, 15:20:

The fan making the noise turned out to be the CPU fan. I will replace it with a new one. Probably a bigger one that runs slower, and jerryrig it on there somehow.

See pic below. Original fan below CPU, fan I am thinking of using above CPU (yes, it needs a clean!):

Yes, these old small CPU fans are often the largest noise makers too.
That 60 mm fan should be able to push a lot more air with a lot less noise. If you have a 2nd identical one, maybe install both (and run their power in series so they run at 6V).
... or, I'd go even a step further and put an 80 or 92 mm fan (provided there is no object to obstruct anything above the CPU) on the heatsink, then run it at 5V-7V for pretty much silent operation. Yes, the fan will "stick out" a little on top, but that'll be fine.
Alternatively, you can attach a 120 mm fan on the (top) side of the CPU to push air down towards the board (so sideways through the CPU heatsink fins). This will not only cool the CPU well, but also the chipset and RAM. Might be easier to attach the fan that way too.

I'd say that anything below 7 volts could pose an issue with fans not starting ...