Reply 80 of 125, by Joakim
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wait a moment are you using dos version 4.X? sounds very adventurous indeed!
wait a moment are you using dos version 4.X? sounds very adventurous indeed!
Joakim wrote on 2024-11-17, 20:58:wait a moment are you using dos version 4.X? sounds very adventurous indeed!
I believe so. I typed in VERSION whilst in DOS. It did say Windows 98 first, but I figured that is indeed the version.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
ok i dont know what that command does or what to make of the numbers. windows 98 comes with version 7.1 and thats the dos most people use. not that im against anything else but dos 4 is from 1986. 😀
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-17, 20:36:DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-17, 20:33:sfryers wrote on 2024-11-17, 19:33:Do you mean the SB PCI driver version or the DOS version? A different version of the sound drivers may produce a different outcome, but Creative drivers can be notoriously finicky about which hardware they work with. If you're using Windows 98, then you've essentially got the last version of DOS as part of the package. If you've got a spare hard drive, you could always install DOS 6.22 on it and keep it completely separate from your Windows 98 install to prevent any automated tampering!
If you put the SB PCI initialisation commands in a separate batch file, then whatever's been altering your autoexec.bat won't be able to get at it. You can either run the batch file manually from the command line each time, or add a line to the end of autoexec.bat to run it automatically. The correct syntax is CALL FILENAME.BAT , replacing FILENAME with the name of your new batch file.
I see. I have a second HDD, so it might be an idea for me to install DOS 6.22 on it. But yes, I meant the DOS version. I'm not sure if there is a newer/recent version of those audio drivers. But having DOS 6.22 on the second HDD, is it fine to have my game installs on there? Or wouldn't that be recommended? It is primarily for game installs and disc image files.
But I'll look at trying that batch file next. Thanks. Also, would that batch file be located where the autoexec and config files are or in a DOS folder?
You don't need to separate your OS and game installations onto different drives at all, but I personally find it's easier from a system management perspective to set up different partitions for OS and data. Most home computer users in the 1990s just had a single drive with their entire data on it, plus maybe a few important files backed up to floppy disks or CD-Rs if they were diligent!
Being a few years older than Windows 98, DOS 6.22 (the last version of DOS that can exist fully independently of Windows) does come with some more awkward drive limitations. It can only recognise hard drive partitions up to 2Gb in size each. From a practical perspective, that means you can have four partitions of 2Gb each, up to a total of 8Gb, then anything above that can't be used (by DOS, anyway). I use a CompactFlash to IDE adapter on my Windows 98 PC, set up in the BIOS to boot before the hard drive. On the odd occasion when I need DOS 6.22, I just plug in an 8Gb CF card with the DOS installation and boot from that. If I remove the CF card, it boots Windows 98 normally from the hard drive.
There's also the much more modern FreeDOS, which can handle larger drives, but loses some of the backward compatibility of the original Microsoft and IBM versions.
You can put a batch file anywhere, but in the root folder with autoexec.bat is probably easiest whilst you're still troubleshooting.
MT-32 Editor- a timbre editor and patch librarian for Roland MT-32 compatible devices: https://github.com/sfryers/MT32Editor
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-17, 21:06:Joakim wrote on 2024-11-17, 20:58:wait a moment are you using dos version 4.X? sounds very adventurous indeed!
I believe so. I typed in VERSION whilst in DOS. It did say Windows 98 first, but I figured that is indeed the version.
That's actually the Windows version- the last 'optional' version of Windows was 3.11. Windows 95, 98, 98SE and ME all report as version 4, 2000 and XP are version 5, etc...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microso … indows_versions
MT-32 Editor- a timbre editor and patch librarian for Roland MT-32 compatible devices: https://github.com/sfryers/MT32Editor
Joakim wrote on 2024-11-17, 21:24:ok i dont know what that command does or what to make of the numbers. windows 98 comes with version 7.1 and thats the dos most people use. not that im against anything else but dos 4 is from 1986. 😀
Oh. My mistake then. That must be Windows. ^^;
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
The confusion continues. Jesus... Firstly, am I right in saying that if you edit the autoexec and config files, you should restart the computer? Not necessarily restart to MS-DOS, but just restart the PC and then load into DOS? I've enabled the start/boot menu so I can jump straight in. That's given me a more likely chance of everything loading without errors. Although, if I boot back into Windows, check if the autoexec is still the same, and then restart and load up DOS, it can give me errors about the variables/environment. And the autoexec contents change once back in Windows. I've even set the autoexec to read-only in DOS and it can STILL change the contents. >_> Sometimes it'll load everything up but the audio and I get this message:
Whilst experimenting with it all, and staying within and restarting to DOS, everything in the autoexec has stayed the same. Especially whilst putting it to read-only. No errors. If I get errors, loading everything from SBPCI.BAT loads everything without issue, but I can't get it to load the contents on boot. I put the command in the autoexec for it to load it and it didn't appear to do anything. And on one occasion, it just deleted that command once back in Windows. During all of this, there were occasions where the sound tests worked fine, though rarely. Most of the time it says to press a key to play a sound sample, but does nothing. No keys respond, no sound plays. Likewise, if I install Simon in DOS and get it to detect a Soundblaster, I just get this:
Again, no key presses do anything and there's nothing to select. I have to restart.
Frustrating to say the least.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things.
Maybe do this; just blank out config.sys and autoexec.bat, empty them. Then after you boot into windows use the DOS-mode shortcut I've attached here instead. Before doing that open the file's Properties, open the Program tab, click on the Advanced... button, and in the config.sys and autoexec.bat fields at the bottom add the sound related lines.
You could actually modify the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" itself but I'd say it's better to use a separate shortcut.
There are two sample PIF files in C:\windows you could mess with too, named "MS-DOS Mode for Games" and "MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS and XMS Support".
eddman wrote on 2024-11-18, 00:55:You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things. […]
You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things.
Maybe do this; just blank out config.sys and autoexec.bat, empty them. Then after you boot into windows use the DOS-mode shortcut I've attached here instead. Before doing that open the file's Properties, open the Program tab, click on the Advanced... button, and in the config.sys and autoexec.bat fields at the bottom add the sound related lines.
You could actually modify the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" itself but I'd say it's better to use a separate shortcut.
There are two sample PIF files in C:\windows you could mess with too, named "MS-DOS Mode for Games" and "MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS and XMS Support".
Cool. Thanks for the zip file; I'll give them a play with. 😁
I might also have to experiment with removing the sound card and seeing if that forces it to use the onboard sound. I suspect though, and please confirm if this is the case, that because my Yamaha sound card is ISA, it's automatically configured and recognised by DOS...? It always seems to be anyway. It's the first thing I notice usually when loading DOS. I didn't have to install any DOS-related drivers for it. But if I removed it temporarily and forced the PC to use the onboard sound, would that work? Or would it still need to be manually configured via autoexec/config etc.?
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
eddman wrote on 2024-11-18, 00:55:You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things. […]
You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things.
Maybe do this; just blank out config.sys and autoexec.bat, empty them. Then after you boot into windows use the DOS-mode shortcut I've attached here instead. Before doing that open the file's Properties, open the Program tab, click on the Advanced... button, and in the config.sys and autoexec.bat fields at the bottom add the sound related lines.
You could actually modify the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" itself but I'd say it's better to use a separate shortcut.
There are two sample PIF files in C:\windows you could mess with too, named "MS-DOS Mode for Games" and "MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS and XMS Support".
Oh. I did try Phil's version, which I mentioned a couple of pages ago, but I couldn't get that to work due to not having the same files. I'll still give it a try though. But even if I add the sound related lines, and they work fine, I need to add the ones for the mouse and CD, and then usually after that, the problem arises for some reason.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-17, 21:06:Joakim wrote on 2024-11-17, 20:58:wait a moment are you using dos version 4.X? sounds very adventurous indeed!
I believe so. I typed in VERSION whilst in DOS. It did say Windows 98 first, but I figured that is indeed the version.
No, it's the version of Windows 98. For example, when typing VER in a dos window or dos mode of Windows 98SE, it will show:
"Windows 98 [Version 4.10.2222]"
Basically all the Win9x versions are 4.x (as they came after Windows 3.x). VER will not show you the underlying DOS version, which is 7.1 for Win98.
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-18, 01:46:Oh. I did try Phil's version, which I mentioned a couple of pages ago, but I couldn't get that to work due to not having the same files. I'll still give it a try though. But even if I add the sound related lines, and they work fine, I need to add the ones for the mouse and CD, and then usually after that, the problem arises for some reason.
I've certainly created my own and added whatever that I had posted before. It's just missing the sound stuff. By the way, after booting from it you might have to type "exit" to get out.
Regarding the issues with the the boot files' contents changing, check the "Dosstart.bat" file in C:\windows. That file is parsed when the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" option from the shutdown box is used and could interfere with regular boot settings. Either blank it or don't use the restart option.
Note, if you're going to modify config.sys and autoexec.bat, then do not use any restart to DOS options. If you are going to use the latter, then keep config.sys and autoexec.bat clean.
When you use a modified restart to DOS method, windows WILL add/change certain stuff in config.sys and autoexec.bat temporarily.
eddman wrote on 2024-11-18, 10:53:I've certainly created my own and added whatever that I had posted before. It's just missing the sound stuff. By the way, after […]
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-18, 01:46:Oh. I did try Phil's version, which I mentioned a couple of pages ago, but I couldn't get that to work due to not having the same files. I'll still give it a try though. But even if I add the sound related lines, and they work fine, I need to add the ones for the mouse and CD, and then usually after that, the problem arises for some reason.
I've certainly created my own and added whatever that I had posted before. It's just missing the sound stuff. By the way, after booting from it you might have to type "exit" to get out.
Regarding the issues with the the boot files' contents changing, check the "Dosstart.bat" file in C:\windows. That file is parsed when the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" option from the shutdown box is used and could interfere with regular boot settings. Either blank it or don't use the restart option.
Note, if you're going to modify config.sys and autoexec.bat, then do not use any restart to DOS options. If you are going to use the latter, then keep config.sys and autoexec.bat clean.
When you use a modified restart to DOS method, windows WILL add/change certain stuff in config.sys and autoexec.bat temporarily.
I see, gotcha. Thanks for the insight.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
eddman wrote on 2024-11-18, 00:55:You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things. […]
You don't have the experience and it'd take a while to learn these things.
Maybe do this; just blank out config.sys and autoexec.bat, empty them. Then after you boot into windows use the DOS-mode shortcut I've attached here instead. Before doing that open the file's Properties, open the Program tab, click on the Advanced... button, and in the config.sys and autoexec.bat fields at the bottom add the sound related lines.
You could actually modify the "Restart in MS-DOS mode" itself but I'd say it's better to use a separate shortcut.
There are two sample PIF files in C:\windows you could mess with too, named "MS-DOS Mode for Games" and "MS-DOS Mode for Games with EMS and XMS Support".
Okay, I’ve just tried setting up the shortcut. Loading up DOS from that still gives me an error regarding the onboard audio device variable not being found. And then once back in Windows the SET BLASTER and SET SBPCI commands are gone from the shortcut’s properties. Everything else is there though, such as SBLOAD and SBINIT.
Every time I try to load those commands via the autoexec, it fails. Throws a hissy fit. But if I load the custom BAT file with everything - no errors. 😮 There’s just no guarantees the tests will work though.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
Also, is there anywhere else the DOSSTART.BAT file would be? I’m not seeing it under C:\WINDOWS.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
Also also - that shortcut is only restarting the PC for me. It’s not taking me straight into DOS like Shutdown > Restart to MS-DOS does
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
Also also also - adding CALL SBPCI.BAT from the shortcut is giving me errors if I try to boot into DOS and Windows…
EDIT: Or not…? Removing that line still comes up with that issue. I did clear the default Autoexec and Config files, so maybe that’s why…?
EDIT 2: Not Config, just autoexec
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
So yay - can’t boot into Windows properly now. 🙁
Even the boot disk hasn’t helped.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-18, 17:11:Also, is there anywhere else the DOSSTART.BAT file would be? I’m not seeing it under C:\WINDOWS.
If it's really not there, then I don't know what's happened. Use the search function.
DustyShinigami wrote on 2024-11-18, 17:17:Also also - that shortcut is only restarting the PC for me. It’s not taking me straight into DOS like Shutdown > Restart to MS-DOS does
Which is exactly how it's supposed to work. Even the modified "Restart to MS-DOS mode" would do that. I suggested to use custom shortcuts to make sure dosstart.bat isn't used.
As I mentioned, when using these shortcuts remove everything from config.sys and autoexec.bat beforehand. Constantly mixing things together would just cause problems.
You haven't mentioned exactly what audio hardware model you have (or maybe I missed it) and which drivers you're using.
You might even want to start everything from scratch, a clean slate.
eddman wrote on 2024-11-18, 17:55:Which is exactly how it's supposed to work. Even the modified "Restart to MS-DOS mode" would do that. I suggested to use custom […]
Which is exactly how it's supposed to work. Even the modified "Restart to MS-DOS mode" would do that. I suggested to use custom shortcuts to make sure dosstart.bat isn't used.
As I mentioned, when using these shortcuts remove everything from config.sys and autoexec.bat beforehand. Constantly mixing things together would just cause problems.
You haven't mentioned exactly what audio hardware model you have (or maybe I missed it) and which drivers you're using.
You might even want to start everything from scratch, a clean slate.
Hmm. Thing is, with Restart in MS-DOS mode, that takes me straight to the command prompt. The shortcut essentially just restarts the whole PC in the same way as if I'd gone to Shutdown > Restart and then does all the memory and drive checking before it reaches the boot menu. I'm a bit apprehensive of using the shortcut due to it changing things still. But I may have discovered something that might be related to why it's changing things.
The model of audio hardware I'm trying to use is the onboard sound, which is a Creative Audio ES1373. It has better GM capabilities than my ISA Yamaha, so I'd prefer to use that until I get a wavetable for the card.
After doing some more experimenting, I was able to get things working correctly just with these commands:
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
SET SBPCI=C:\DOSDRV
C:\DOSDRV\SBINIT.COM
C:\DOSDRV\MT32 /ON
C:\WINDOWS\SMARTDRV.EXE
LH MSCDEX /D:OPTICAL
LH C:\DOSDRV\MOUSE.COM /P4
For the first few tests, it was configuring the device without errors. And it allowed me to enable the MT-32 option. The only tool that doesn't seem to work, though it has a couple of times, is the SBTEST. Like I mentioned previously, it asks me to press a key, but no sound plays, and I can't do anything but restart. However, the games I've tested - Simon, Doom, Heretic - were all working.
And then it started again - the same bloody error when rebooting/loading DOS. However, when I looked in the Device Manager, I noticed this, and it isn't the first time I've seen it:
I believe this is why I keep getting that error every time I try to use it in DOS.
OS: Windows 98 SE
CPU: Pentium III Katmai 450MHz (SL35D)/Pentium III Coppermine 933MHz (SL448)
RAM: SK Hynix 128MB 100MHz/Kingston 256MB 133MHz
GPU: Nvidia 16MB Riva TNT/Geforce 128MB 4 MX 440
Motherboard: MSI-6156/Abit BE6-II