My jaw dropped last summer when I bought a new mouse and after Windows completed auto-installing the drivers, a popup appeared that prompted me to create an online mouse account.

Not kidding.

UCyborg wrote on 2024-11-21, 21:09:

My brother got PlayStation 5 a while back and some games. Not only there's PSN account, games also want you to have their own account. Wanna play Call of Duty, need to have Activision's account. NBA 2K24? Another account. Today we were waiting for NBA 2K24 to load, which was unusually long. Then the error it couldn't connect to the server.

Need an app on smart TV for the streaming service you're paying for? Yup, you'll probably need TV manufacturer's account to download it. Sigh.

I always thought Steam meant I'd just need Steam (and in some circumstances don't even need it at all, certain games you can buy don't actually have deep ties to Steam itself) and nothing else but you'll easily come across games that have the "third party account required" stamp on them all, even third party DRM.

What was this termed again? "En-shittification"?

This is partly why I won't help neighbors, etc. do a clean install of windows or move between machines anymore. Too many remembered passwords, "known" devices to skip 2FA and the 2FA doesn't work anymore, accounts, etc. and I'm not giving my time to help them recover access

clb wrote on 2024-11-21, 21:16:

My jaw dropped last summer when I bought a new mouse and after Windows completed auto-installing the drivers, a popup appeared that prompted me to create an online mouse account.

Not kidding.

Let me guess. Logitech? When connecting the USB receiver, some download assistant begins to run automatically and voila...

No kidding, I was asked to create an user account to use the DAMN BATHROOM LIGHT…My wife and I wanted to install a bathroom light that changes colors (which you could control using a simple app), now the once simple app is requesting me not just to create an user, but also to agree with a crapload of terms and conditions …
Even worse is that if the light isn’t connected, it keeps blinking, making it useless even as a regular lamp.

I complain about this all the time. Absolutely everything seems to want you to create an account to use it, from software and games, to toasters and light bulbs, it's maddening. Thankfully, I swore off all this marketing and data acquisition nonsense, I don't mind creating online accounts for specific services (like using forums or shopping), but I no longer create new accounts for software and games, and I refuse to create new accounts for appliances!

That being said, my wife went down this path with our "smart home" appliances. If it's from different manufacturers, they almost all want their own account, even if it's all Alexa or Google Home enabled. She's managing several different accounts for different LIGHT BULBS because they come from different manufacturers. It's absolute nonsense. I've asked several times to drop all of it and just use an open source home automation suite that I would happily setup, but she doesn't want to go down that path, so we're stuck with Alexa and it's active connection to AWS. I needs that to even function because Alexa devices are just "dumb terminals" and useless without that connection.

However, we have decided to standardize everything, keeping it all from one manufacturer whenever possible. This will make things vastly easier on her. I don't want anything to do with it, I already complain enough about it.

Sometimes, I think this is the "old geek" version of "back in my day" or "get off my lawn!".

😀

gaffa2002 wrote on 2024-11-21, 22:26:

No kidding, I was asked to create an user account to use the DAMN BATHROOM LIGHT…My wife and I wanted to install a bathroom light that changes colors (which you could control using a simple app), now the once simple app is requesting me not just to create an user, but also to agree with a crapload of terms and conditions …
Even worse is that if the light isn’t connected, it keeps blinking, making it useless even as a regular lamp.

I see you're in Brazil, but at least here in the US, when home improvement stores take "buyer's remorse" returns, they throw the item into the trash and bill it back to the manufacturer. So, if you end up with an item like this and don't want to create an account, it's worth it to return it and play dumb as if it was too technically hard to set up. It disincentives the manufacturers from doing stuff like this. Often the packaging will even say inside, "don't return this item to the store!!!!!"

Of course they need an online account, how else are they supposed to track every single thing you do without it?

The one that pisses me off the most is Microsoft trying to prevent Windows users from creating a local account on their own computers. Isn't the ungodly amount of bloat and telemetry that is installed by default enough for them? I swear the day they finally lock me out from using a local account it's bye bye to Windows for good.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2024-11-22, 00:02:

gaffa2002 wrote on 2024-11-21, 22:26:

No kidding, I was asked to create an user account to use the DAMN BATHROOM LIGHT…My wife and I wanted to install a bathroom light that changes colors (which you could control using a simple app), now the once simple app is requesting me not just to create an user, but also to agree with a crapload of terms and conditions …
Even worse is that if the light isn’t connected, it keeps blinking, making it useless even as a regular lamp.

I see you're in Brazil, but at least here in the US, when home improvement stores take "buyer's remorse" returns, they throw the item into the trash and bill it back to the manufacturer. So, if you end up with an item like this and don't want to create an account, it's worth it to return it and play dumb as if it was too technically hard to set up. It disincentives the manufacturers from doing stuff like this. Often the packaging will even say inside, "don't return this item to the store!!!!!"

Technically I could have done that at the time of purchase, but the lights were purchased with a lot of other items as part of a larger transformation project. The construction and installation took a couple months and at first I was satisfied with the product (we just wanted a light that could change colors and it was that for a while), and now I’m using it for almost a year so it will be a bit tough to return claiming buyer’s remorse at this point (Brazilian law says the buyer has a 7 day period for buyer’s remorse).
Luckily we only purchased two (one for each bathroom) and the lights were installed inside the shower box, meaning there is the main, regular bathroom lights that can still be used.

PD2JK wrote on 2024-11-21, 21:58:

Let me guess. Logitech? When connecting the USB receiver, some download assistant begins to run automatically and voila...

I think the same applies to Corsair also. My Corsair keyboard (as well as some other USB accessories of theirs), when plugged into the newly installed Win10-based system, would immediately pop a notification suggesting me to download iCUE afterwards.

iCUE doesn't require accounts to operate AFAIK and, the good part, is that for devices that could actually store LED settings like keyboard/mouse, I only need to start iCUE once, make changes and save it to the device, then disable it (from startup) for the rest of the time until needed again.

Honestly I don't recall seeing this kind of behavior before Win10 was a thing nor could I imagine such a kind of (potentially backdoor-enabling) API existed (or at least being widely used like this) in the past...

TheMobRules wrote on 2024-11-22, 00:26:

Of course they need an online account, how else are they supposed to track every single thing you do without it?

The one that pisses me off the most is Microsoft trying to prevent Windows users from creating a local account on their own computers. Isn't the ungodly amount of bloat and telemetry that is installed by default enough for them? I swear the day they finally lock me out from using a local account it's bye bye to Windows for good.

That kind of thing dated back to Win8/Win8.1 and I had a really hard time figuring out how not to use a M$ account back then. Though the rule of thumb had always been unplug the network cable during the installation process and only plug it back after formally entering the desktop environment...

And PS: The recent AI (LLM) craze has forever changed the rules. Ever since then, I'm starting to feel that the Internet is becoming increasingly closed than before, with higher walls being erected among platforms -- the now-more-often-enforced requirement for accounts to access is just the tip of the iceberg.

I just don't - if it means "missing out" on 'smart' kitchen appliances, i don't care.

Likewise if a service goes too far in asking for "engagement", in my view, then i just don't use the service.

it restricts the choices, but not really - there are plenty of alternatives, including one that is often forgotten but also often sensible - just having nothing instead of whatever. I've never suffered a loss of quality of life because i chose not to buy some luxury tech gadget.

I don't want to be always connected or have voice activation or "household automation" or anything like that anyway. I'm fine with using a switch for a light, refilling a fridge without prompts, turning the heating up or down myself - its all much less of a burden than phone apps, passwords and having some weird profile being built up about you by distant vast corporates processed by ai to find "opportunities" to get even more money (or worse)

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-11-22, 02:07:

That kind of thing dated back to Win8/Win8.1 and I had a really hard time figuring out how not to use a M$ account back then. Though the rule of thumb had always been unplug the network cable during the installation process and only plug it back after formally entering the desktop environment...

The problem with Windows calling home has been there for much longer - it started with the XP requiring online activation.

PD2JK wrote on 2024-11-21, 21:58:

clb wrote on 2024-11-21, 21:16:

My jaw dropped last summer when I bought a new mouse and after Windows completed auto-installing the drivers, a popup appeared that prompted me to create an online mouse account.

Not kidding.

Let me guess. Logitech? When connecting the USB receiver, some download assistant begins to run automatically and voila...

It was actually Razer. Though probably Logitech is in the same boat. This series of articles is a nice brain melt:
- https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/07/logit … a-subscription/
- https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/6/24214857/lo … t-hanneke-faber

gerry wrote on 2024-11-22, 09:14:

I just don't - if it means "missing out" on 'smart' kitchen appliances, i don't care. […]
Show full quote

I just don't - if it means "missing out" on 'smart' kitchen appliances, i don't care.

Likewise if a service goes too far in asking for "engagement", in my view, then i just don't use the service.

it restricts the choices, but not really - there are plenty of alternatives, including one that is often forgotten but also often sensible - just having nothing instead of whatever. I've never suffered a loss of quality of life because i chose not to buy some luxury tech gadget.

I don't want to be always connected or have voice activation or "household automation" or anything like that anyway. I'm fine with using a switch for a light, refilling a fridge without prompts, turning the heating up or down myself - its all much less of a burden than phone apps, passwords and having some weird profile being built up about you by distant vast corporates processed by ai to find "opportunities" to get even more money (or worse)

I've been very hesitant when it comes to such large "smart" appliances. A main reason is that I always have doubts on the longevity of the service providers behind those "smart" functions, as well as whether those appliances can continue to be used as ordinary ones should those "smart" functions cease to be available in case e.g.:
- The model reached end-of-life after a couple of years and the service providers may no longer be able to keep maintaining those services for EOL'd models.
- The service providers went out of business in a distant future, leaving the fate of those services uncertain.

Many ordinary electrical appliances already outlived their original manufacturers and are still in good shape to use for another decade or two. For "smart" appliances, however, there is always the risk that they may end up completely and utterly useless and worthless should anything bad happen to the service providers, as some may be completely dependent on the "smart" services and cannot be used on its own just like any other ordinary appliance.

Grzyb wrote on 2024-11-22, 10:34:

LSS10999 wrote on 2024-11-22, 02:07:

That kind of thing dated back to Win8/Win8.1 and I had a really hard time figuring out how not to use a M$ account back then. Though the rule of thumb had always been unplug the network cable during the installation process and only plug it back after formally entering the desktop environment...

The problem with Windows calling home has been there for much longer - it started with the XP requiring online activation.

Later came the WGA/OGA, but user profiles were still purely local up to Win7. Starting with Win8 and especially Win8.1 and onwards you have to unplug the network cable during install to be able to set up a local user profile in a straightforward manner.

IIRC you need to leave username and password empty on the first screen of M$ account login, then it'll guide you to a screen to register a new M$ account, and that's where you can find the option to use a local user like before.

That's why I quadruple check everything I buy if a device needs or even works without online connectivity. If it can work with open platforms like Domoticz, Home Assistant and the likes, can it synchronize with NextCloud. If it's a game, if it has Denuvo, instantly blacklisted. If it demands a third party account even for single player, it's instantly blacklisted. For other entertainment media, I just buy physical and rip or pirate the digital version to stream from my own media server. Unless it's absolutely disposable entertainment. I'd love to be able to buy digital DRM-free movies and music, and there are options for music, like Bandcamp, but none for movies that I know of.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2024-11-21, 22:26:

No kidding, I was asked to create an user account to use the DAMN BATHROOM
Even worse is that if the light isn’t connected, it keeps blinking, making it useless even as a regular lamp.

I bet I can hardwire the light to always be on

That idea of a Logitech subscription mouse is just dumb. The reason that a mouse stops working is because of hardware failure, not because of software. No matter how expensive the mouse might be, it will eventually die.

As for smart devices, I do not have any, and never will. I don't like the idea that plastic things think they can make decisions on my behalf - I'd rather keep control. I still have plenty of incandescent globes in my house - there's no need to pay lots for something newer, just because it's the in thing.

And, the only thing that should connect to the internet is my computer. Not any other household items.

My complaint this is becoming more common in the physical world as well.
Some shops now you make a purchase and your asked for an email "to send the receipt" some shops will even ask for phone numbers and if not your full address, then at least the post code.
You can of course refuse but I bet the majority don't.

Then you have restaurants that push you to use an App top place orders, This is a sit-down restaurant with a counter and tills.
I just walk upto the counter and say my phones dead, I find UK Nandos especially really don't like you ordering at the counter.

Oh yeah, I've recently been to some food store - and at the cash register got asked "Do you have the app?"
It turned out that prices vary depending if you've got the app...