And a few with the latch closed:

Is there anything I can do about this? Does anyone have any ideas? Any help, information, speculation, ideas, or insights would be awesome. Thank you

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-11-24, 14:43:

My 5.25 floppy drive is damaging disks and its read write head appears to be clamping down too tight on the disks and slicing through them.

Seems unlikely that a drive head would suddenly start "pressing harder",
this is usually set by a spring and springs don't get stronger as they
get older.

I think it's more likely that the head has picked up some crud, I'd check
and see if there is anything appearing like a small object "Stuck" the the
head. If so clean it smooth very carefully.

Also, is the damage you mention the random pricks/holes in the media, or is
it the lines closer to the outer edge. If the former, it would have to be
so sharp and pressing hard enough to keep the disk from spinning, as there
is no visible scoring,

Heads are normally VERY smooth, and it would take a LOT of pressure to make it
damage a disk visually like that - normally if the pressure it too high it
would just cause premature wearing of the media, with possibly a light "scrub
mark" around the disk.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-11-24, 15:18:

Seems unlikely that a drive head would suddenly start "pressing harder", this is usually set by a spring and springs don't get s […]
Show full quote

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-11-24, 14:43:

My 5.25 floppy drive is damaging disks and its read write head appears to be clamping down too tight on the disks and slicing through them.

Seems unlikely that a drive head would suddenly start "pressing harder",
this is usually set by a spring and springs don't get stronger as they
get older.

I think it's more likely that the head has picked up some crud, I'd check
and see if there is anything appearing like a small object "Stuck" the the
head. If so clean it smooth very carefully.

Also, is the damage you mention the random pricks/holes in the media, or is
it the lines closer to the outer edge. If the former, it would have to be
so sharp and pressing hard enough to keep the disk from spinning, as there
is no visible scoring,

Heads are normally VERY smooth, and it would take a LOT of pressure to make it
damage a disk visually like that - normally if the pressure it too high it
would just cause premature wearing of the media, with possibly a light "scrub
mark" around the disk.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Thanks for your detailed reply.
So it could be a spring. That might make it easier to repair. I don't know anything about springs though
And it ain't pressure I guess so it's a piece of crap on the head that i missed slicing through the disk
Thanks imagedisk man! Interesting insights you can't really find anywhere else but from an experienced user.
I'll clean the head and look at the inside if I can safely take it apart (don't worry I have a technician working with me)
If that doesn't change anything I'll look at the springs

OK we cleaned the hell out of both sides of the head and it's still ripping through whatever I put in there. I don't think it's dirt particles or dust. It could be a spring. Maybe there's a way to not make the head lower as far as it's going to prevent scratching. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear some.

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-11-26, 22:50:

OK we cleaned the hell out of both sides of the head and it's still ripping through whatever I put in there. I don't think it's dirt particles or dust. It could be a spring. Maybe there's a way to not make the head lower as far as it's going to prevent scratching. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear some.

Ok, normally the only part that touches the disk media is the smooth "glass" part of the head,
the head sits on carriers - the bottom one moves in-and out but does not raise or lower.
The top one also moves in and out (It's linked to the same drive as the bottom) but it is on
a spring loaded arm that presses it lightly against the media (and lower head) when the drive door
is closed.

Can you tell if there is anything else touching the media.

I'd try cutting a bit of paper to just fit in like a disk (with the center cut out
just enough to not catch the spindle) - then with the drive OFF, manually move the
heads all the way IN and close the drive so it will press on the paper.
Then open the drive, do not "shift" the paper, move the heads all the way OUT,
close the drive - then open and remove the paper.

Hopefully you will be able to see where whatever sharp is pressing touched the paper.

If there's only ONE mark, then there's
something else in the drive beside the heads that's doing it.

Also, if you can tell which side was pressing into the disk, you could figure out it it's
top or bottom.

**You could do this with a blank disk as well - but it will damage it.

If it does seem to be the heads, look closely at them and see if anything comes out toward the media
besides the smooth round part.

Also, try rubbing a finger lightly over each head and see if it feel
rough.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

I noticed this in picture of bottom head. It may just be a light reflection but should be looked at. Those Mitsumi heads are much diff than my 5.25" drive heads...

Horun wrote on 2024-11-27, 02:39:

I noticed this in picture of bottom head. It may just be a light reflection but should be looked at. Those Mitsumi heads are much diff than my 5.25" drive heads...

That looks weird I'll check it out. Good observation. Thanks!

DaveDDS wrote on 2024-11-27, 02:22:

Ok, normally the only part that touches the disk media is the smooth "glass" part of the head, the head sits on carriers - the b […]
Show full quote

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-11-26, 22:50:

OK we cleaned the hell out of both sides of the head and it's still ripping through whatever I put in there. I don't think it's dirt particles or dust. It could be a spring. Maybe there's a way to not make the head lower as far as it's going to prevent scratching. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear some.

Ok, normally the only part that touches the disk media is the smooth "glass" part of the head,
the head sits on carriers - the bottom one moves in-and out but does not raise or lower.
The top one also moves in and out (It's linked to the same drive as the bottom) but it is on
a spring loaded arm that presses it lightly against the media (and lower head) when the drive door
is closed.

Can you tell if there is anything else touching the media.

I'd try cutting a bit of paper to just fit in like a disk (with the center cut out
just enough to not catch the spindle) - then with the drive OFF, manually move the
heads all the way IN and close the drive so it will press on the paper.
Then open the drive, do not "shift" the paper, move the heads all the way OUT,
close the drive - then open and remove the paper.

Hopefully you will be able to see where whatever sharp is pressing touched the paper.

If there's only ONE mark, then there's
something else in the drive beside the heads that's doing it.

Also, if you can tell which side was pressing into the disk, you could figure out it it's
top or bottom.

**You could do this with a blank disk as well - but it will damage it.

If it does seem to be the heads, look closely at them and see if anything comes out toward the media
besides the smooth round part.

Also, try rubbing a finger lightly over each head and see if it feel
rough.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Thanks for all the information and ideas. The paper idea is genius and I'll definitely try it today. I'll try your other ideas too. Extremely helpful and detailed post. Thank you. I'll post when I've tried your and Horun's ideas this afternoon

OK sorry for the late reply. Life happened. The paper idea worked. No damage occurred so I have deduced that it's not the head pressing down. It could be the heads picking up dirt and dust from the other 40 year old components though. Horun had a good point too because even after two or three thorough cleanings the drive still had particles in it. I think the only course of action is to replace the springs and clean the rest of the drive. Thank you for all your suggestions, ideas and advice so far. If anyone has a link to replacement springs or good tools to clean the drive out, I would appreciate that. Would a cleaning disk work? Like the cloth disk that you soak in alcohol
Any suggestions, ideas, insight, help, or advice would be awesome.
Thanks

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-12-03, 17:05:

If anyone has a link to replacement springs or good tools to clean the drive out, I would appreciate that. Would a cleaning disk work? Like the cloth disk that you soak in alcohol

I have never had to replace any springs in all the drives that passed through my hands. And there were plenty. I find it very unlikely a spring would go bad. Preferably do not touch anything on the head sled or you will need to properly realign the heads afterwards - which is not trivial.

First of all your upper head is clearly missing the RF/EM shield that was glued on top of it. It will work like this but having the coils exposed (very delicate stuff, the wire here is extremly thin) is bad idea. Not to mention all the dirt that will fall in there in time. Find a way to glue some cover on the top, preferably non-magnetic metal like copper but even non-metallic one will do. Just make sure it's domed a bit and doesn't touch the coils (there needs to be some room for the coil spring to give a bit).
If that cover fell into the drive it might still be wedged somewhere in there, and will very likely cause damage if it ever touches the media. Could even total the heads and the floppy at the same time. Look for it, finding the original cover part is the best way to fix this.

As for cleaning, the are quite a few posts about that already, also on how to not lubricate these drives. I'd start with soft brush and removing all the dust, but be super careful about that upper head coils. You damage those and it's bye-bye drive unless you find replacement parts, for which you will need identical drive considering the odd single FFC for both heads this one is using. I'm pretty sure the sled rods could be removed without having to touch the stepper motor and the metal belt that is atteched to the sled. But if it's your first time this could be tricky, esp. on this kind of arrangement. So maybe jus try to wipe them clean using available opening and just move the head sled back and forth to aceess all areas. Safer this way. If you choose not to look for any previous post on the matter then at least do not oil these in any way. Once properly cleaned they don't need any form of lubrication.

Deunan wrote on 2024-12-03, 21:56:

I have never had to replace any springs in all the drives that passed through my hands. And there were plenty. I find it very un […]
Show full quote

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-12-03, 17:05:

If anyone has a link to replacement springs or good tools to clean the drive out, I would appreciate that. Would a cleaning disk work? Like the cloth disk that you soak in alcohol

I have never had to replace any springs in all the drives that passed through my hands. And there were plenty. I find it very unlikely a spring would go bad. Preferably do not touch anything on the head sled or you will need to properly realign the heads afterwards - which is not trivial.

First of all your upper head is clearly missing the RF/EM shield that was glued on top of it. It will work like this but having the coils exposed (very delicate stuff, the wire here is extremly thin) is bad idea. Not to mention all the dirt that will fall in there in time. Find a way to glue some cover on the top, preferably non-magnetic metal like copper but even non-metallic one will do. Just make sure it's domed a bit and doesn't touch the coils (there needs to be some room for the coil spring to give a bit).
If that cover fell into the drive it might still be wedged somewhere in there, and will very likely cause damage if it ever touches the media. Could even total the heads and the floppy at the same time. Look for it, finding the original cover part is the best way to fix this.

As for cleaning, the are quite a few posts about that already, also on how to not lubricate these drives. I'd start with soft brush and removing all the dust, but be super careful about that upper head coils. You damage those and it's bye-bye drive unless you find replacement parts, for which you will need identical drive considering the odd single FFC for both heads this one is using. I'm pretty sure the sled rods could be removed without having to touch the stepper motor and the metal belt that is atteched to the sled. But if it's your first time this could be tricky, esp. on this kind of arrangement. So maybe jus try to wipe them clean using available opening and just move the head sled back and forth to aceess all areas. Safer this way. If you choose not to look for any previous post on the matter then at least do not oil these in any way. Once properly cleaned they don't need any form of lubrication.

Thanks for the detailed post. My floppy drive is more screwed than I thought I guess. I'll try all your ideas and try to figure out a solution from your detailed information and advice and everyone's else's ideas. I won't try the springs. I hope to God I don't have to realign the heads. I'll look into either finding a replacement for the head shield or opening up the drive and looking for the old one.

Your advice about the cleaning was great too and I'll take all that into account if I decide to clean up the drive. I already took the whole head off of the sled and cleaned the rods and the other parts on the first cleaning.

If I understand you right the coil or wire on the head is missing the protective cover and is therefore scratching or damaging the disks. I'll see if I can find the original cover but I don't know how to reattach it. If I can find it that will be epic though

If all else fails I'll put it up for 25 bucks on auction on eBay and see if I can get enough for a working one

Thanks for everyone's contributions so far.
I'll let you know if I make any progress or discoveries

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-12-03, 23:07:

If I understand you right the coil or wire on the head is missing the protective cover and is therefore scratching or damaging the disks. I'll see if I can find the original cover but I don't know how to reattach it. If I can find it that will be epic though

No, not the wire or coils. The cover itself, once loose, will just drop somwhere into the drive and can easily just shred the rotating floppy and if it hits the heads, rip those off as well.

Look at the photos here: https://offog.org/notes/archiving/minifloppies/
See the metal part that is covering the upper head, no matter what kind of drive it is? That is what is missing on yours. In other words you should not be able to see the head coils looking at it from above (frankly, from any angle on these).

If the coils look dusty and dirty then the shield went off long time ago, but perhaps it's still in the drive or in the PC at the bottom somewhere. In that case it could short something out, being almost certainly made of metal. But the damage to your floppies was probably made by dirt on the head surfaces - that can be cleaned with IPA and q-tips. Though apparently this is how most head damage is done, people somehow end up bending the head spring or even ripping the whole thing off trying to shove the q-tip in there. So be very careful and patient. Cleaning floppies are hard to find these days and frankly could also damage a badly fouled head by catching on the dirt when rotating. So I'm not sure it's a good idea but if you already have one you can try it. Obviously the cleaning floppy will also require a drop of IPA or something.

Deunan wrote on 2024-12-04, 19:13:

No, not the wire or coils. The cover itself, once loose, will just drop somwhere into the drive and can easily just shred the ro […]
Show full quote

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-12-03, 23:07:

If I understand you right the coil or wire on the head is missing the protective cover and is therefore scratching or damaging the disks. I'll see if I can find the original cover but I don't know how to reattach it. If I can find it that will be epic though

No, not the wire or coils. The cover itself, once loose, will just drop somwhere into the drive and can easily just shred the rotating floppy and if it hits the heads, rip those off as well.

Look at the photos here: https://offog.org/notes/archiving/minifloppies/
See the metal part that is covering the upper head, no matter what kind of drive it is? That is what is missing on yours. In other words you should not be able to see the head coils looking at it from above (frankly, from any angle on these).

If the coils look dusty and dirty then the shield went off long time ago, but perhaps it's still in the drive or in the PC at the bottom somewhere. In that case it could short something out, being almost certainly made of metal. But the damage to your floppies was probably made by dirt on the head surfaces - that can be cleaned with IPA and q-tips. Though apparently this is how most head damage is done, people somehow end up bending the head spring or even ripping the whole thing off trying to shove the q-tip in there. So be very careful and patient. Cleaning floppies are hard to find these days and frankly could also damage a badly fouled head by catching on the dirt when rotating. So I'm not sure it's a good idea but if you already have one you can try it. Obviously the cleaning floppy will also require a drop of IPA or something.

The coils aren't damaged as far as I know. The drive was reading the corrupted boot sector that it destroyed on track 0 back when I was still trying to get it to read the disks. Thank you for the link to the images. I'll use that site as a reference. I was surprised by how large the head covers were. That should be easy to find if I got digging, assuming that the cover is still in the drive itself and it wasn't lost 4 decades ago. To my understanding, the cover minimizes the damage done to the disks during reading. Seeing as I'd need to clean out the entire drive extremely thoroughly to eliminate every piece of dust, that cover will solve the problem if I can find it.

Your advice about the cleaning disks was also appreciated. I don't have any and I'd rather hunt for the head cover and do more careful cleaning with a q-tip than try to find one on ebay. Too risky anyway and the cover should solve multiple problems if I can find it.

If all else fails, more cleaning and trying to either find a replacement cover somewhere online or making a substitute cover out of some material. I'll heed your previous posts about that aspect of the repair too.

Thanks to you and everyone else for the detailed and informative contributions to the thread and the repair. I'll keep you posted as things continue.

Cursed Derp wrote on 2024-12-04, 19:28:

To my understanding, the cover minimizes the damage done to the disks during reading.

It will prevent dust and dirt getting into the space where coils are, which would then migrate further down to the head surfaces and magnetic media of the floppy due to vibrations and head movements. Plus it also protects the coils from any damage from above. So yeah, long term you really want it back, or some replacement. But the main function of the cover is to provide some EM shielding for the head coils, this improves signal to noise ratio and reading of weaker floppies. You won't really see a difference with freshly written floppies though. But if you can't find the original part or anything suitable made out of non-magnetic metal then a piece of plastic will do. The EM shielding effect here is not really that critical.

Keep in mind a typical 5.25" drive is always open at the front as it has the slit to insert a floppy. A typical PC PSU is configured to pull air out of the case, so the air getting in will go mostly through such openings as floppy drives. This makes 5.25" drives gather more dust - not the best design choice but it is what it is. Once cleaned I doubt a PC with such a drive would see so much daily usage that would need another cleaning anytime soon. Have fun.