VOGONS


First post, by Sleaka_J

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I have a couple of Retro PCs. The one I'm asking about today has the following specs:

Intel Pentium III 1Ghz
Intel CA810E Motherboard
512Mb SDRAM
Voodoo 3 2000 PCI
Ensoniq AudioPCI 2000
Startech 7port USB 2.0 PCI card - The front USB 2.0 ports on the case are connected to the 9pin header on the card
Western Digital Raptor 10K RPM 150GB HDD - I had it spare at the time
Gotek FDD emulator
Asus DVD Optical Drive
Triple boot system - DOS 6.22 & Windows for Workgroups 3.11, Windows 98SE and Windows 2000

Now I know the motherboard chipset isn't the best, but when I was originally looking for a motherboard, I was replacing a system that died and it had an i815 chipset so I was reasonably familiar with the series. I wanted a Socket 370 (already had the CPU and Fan), MicroATX (already had the case) and I mistakenly believed the onboard sound (a Creative variant) had proper Windows 3.1 drivers and so I bought it. It's not "bad", but I haven't found anything that could replace it. The motherboard already has the highest CPU it can take and the highest amount of RAM it will support. It has 4 PCI slots.

Since the motherboard only has PCI, originally, I had a 2Mb Matrox Mystique in the system (great Windows 3.1 drivers) and the plan was to get a Voodoo 2 for 3D acceleration in the other Windows. I found the 2MB limiting in Windows 2000 as I couldn't set the higher resolution with higher colour depth that I wanted. I still had a working TNT2 M64 PCI from the dead system so I tried that and found the Windows 3.1 drivers to be terrible. I did a little searching and found the Voodoo 3 has some good Windows 3.x drivers. I ended up finding a half decent price on a Voodoo 3 replacing the Matrox and negating the Voodoo 2 plan. It has a fan on it which takes up the space over the second PCI slot below it. There's no point getting an AGP card or motherboard now.

The sound chip on the motherboard turned out to have very poor Win3.x drivers. It would play WAV files, but Midi wouldn't work at all. So I needed to find a PCI sound card that works in 3.1/98/2K. There aren't many that fit the bill, but I found the AudioPCI and it just works in all 3 operating systems. This is not my main Retro PC as I also have an XP machine with EAX that I do most of my Retro gaming on, so there's no point to a new sound card and I don't have a spare PCI slot to put a second one in anyway.

I got USB2.0 working in 98 and 2K using the Startech card. Yeah, it's a VIA based card (I know the NEC cards are preferred here), but I needed one that had a 9pin USB header since the motherboard didn't have it and it's the only one I could find. It worked really well out of the box. The motherboard only has 2 USB 1.1 ports and now I have 6 USB2.0 ports I can use (2 on the front, 4 on the back).

Other than the HDD which I could replace with a variety of things (I haven't made up my mind what to do there), I can't think of anything else I could upgrade on this system.

Do anybody have ideas? Is there something I've missed maybe?

Reply 1 of 10, by PD2JK

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For sound, the ALS4000 or Vortex (the first one, AU8820) comes to mind. Not sure if that would be an upgrade though.

Note from the Vortex driver:

Unlike Windows 95 systems, Sound Blaster Emulation is not supported in a Window 3.1x DOS box. Users must execute DOS compatibl […]
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Unlike Windows 95 systems, Sound Blaster Emulation is not supported in
a Window 3.1x DOS box. Users must execute DOS compatible games from
the DOS prompt. This is accomplished right after system boot or after
exiting Windows 3.1x and executing Vortex.bat

i386 16 ⇒ i486 DX4 100 ⇒ Pentium MMX 200 ⇒ Athlon Orion 700 | TB 1000 ⇒ AthlonXP 1700+ ⇒ Opteron 165 ⇒ Dual Opteron 856

Reply 2 of 10, by Sleaka_J

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PD2JK wrote on 2024-12-12, 15:17:

For sound, the ALS4000 or Vortex (the first one, AU8820) comes to mind. Not sure if that would be an upgrade though.

While that sounds like a good idea in theory, I looked on eBay and they're not cheap. The cheapest was AU$70ish (including shipping) and they go north from there. Most are over AU$100. I'm not willing to spend that much for what would probably just be a sidegrade.

Well, this thread got very little attention. It looks like nobody else has any ideas, so other than the storage which I do plan to change, the rest can be considered done.

Reply 3 of 10, by dionb

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As for high eBay prices - remember how eBay works. It's not that stuff doesn't get offered cheap - it does, particularly in this category of (at least in the ALS4000) not particularly sought-after old junk. It's just that the good deals get snapped up fast and what you are left with is precisely what no one was prepared to pay.

So don't take a one-time look and conclude that stuff is too expensive. Be pro-active, look frequently and set up search alerts for keywords ("ALS4000" would be an obvious one). Then the next time one comes up for next to nothing (apart from shipping to AU...) you can snap it up.

Aside from that, you're fighting with both arms tied behind your back with that motherboard. No AGP is survivable, but lack of ISA hurts Win 3.1 options a lot. Plus it's an Intel OEM board so tweaking options are very limited. I'd keep an eye out for something with So370 FC-PGA.and ISA, perhaps with Via ApolloPro133a chipset.

Reply 4 of 10, by chinny22

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By your own admission the motherboard isn't ideal so not much else you can do, especially as you want dos and even more so for Win3x compatibility.

-CPU and RAM are maxed out and well suited for Win9x/2k
-Voodoo 3 I'd agree is the best choice for all your OS's
- Ensoniq AudioPCI, while not great probably offers the best compatibility in all 3 OS's

Which only leaves 1 slot left.
I'd replace the USB card for a Network. File transfers over network is so much more convenient and flexible once you get it working BUT that'll depend on your physical setup, technical knowledge and personal choice.

As for drives
Gotek, check
HDD, I'd also go with size over speed and if you already had the 150GB then no need to spend more money IMHO.
Optical drive, as long as it has one I'm not bothered with the details, most of the time I'd be using a virtual CD to load iso's off the HDD.

Reply 5 of 10, by Intel486dx33

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Upgrades to consider:
1) Network card. It’s so convenient having a Network card. Makes life very easy.
You can use a Network card from HP, 3com, or Intel. They are very well supported.
2) Get a WiFi extender and Switch. I use the TP Link WiFi-N Extender.Just pair with your home router and plug in your PC
It’s EASY to setup and then you can access a home NAS.
3) Get a home NAS. Get one with Dual mirrored disks that are Exchangeable if one should dies.
I highly recommend this upgrade. Then you can store all your drivers and software on the NAS
It will work with old computers from Apple, Microsoft, Linux, Unix, etc….
It’s ONE central place to save all your files.
I use the WD MyCloud Dual EX2 or EX4 or Austore Dual disk NAS
4) Swap out you Hard drive for a Compact Flash card and adapter. For ONE it will make your computer whisper quiet. Fast
And you can swap out CF cards Easy when ever you want to change operating systems or installations.
You can have one for Win98 and Win2000.

Reply 6 of 10, by elszgensa

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Looks good to me. Win98/2k might benefit from 3D positional audio (unless the Ensoniq already does that? I dunno, and am too lazy to look it up. I'd go for EAX; A3D is a bit expensive, and not as many games support it), otherwise I'd leave it as is and only change something when there's an actual need to do so. I'd keep a 256MB RAM stick on hand for compatibility though.

If you have an itch to scratch, maybe build another machine targeting a different time frame instead?

Reply 7 of 10, by Sleaka_J

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I see a couple of Network card comments. I didn't mention the network because there's one on the motherboard. I haven't setup the Network in Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (and probably won't as there's no need) but it's working in Win98 and 2K fine so I do have that covered.

I think the DVD drive is playing up though. It's not reading discs and keeps opening the tray, even with no disc. When I push the tray in, it stays closed for about 2 seconds then opens a few millimeters. I don't use it much, but I've just added a fourth OS (XP) on the system and the install disc worked to install XP but stopped afterwards.

Reply 8 of 10, by Sleaka_J

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An update to the audio.

I ended up finding an Aureal Vortex 1 for around the same price as I paid for the Ensoniq AudioPCI. Tried the 1189 drivers listed on the Vogons driver library in 98SE, but they wouldn't recognise it. Ended up using the 1187 drivers and that worked. Once the driver installed it worked well in 98, but my problems with it were just beginning.

Tried installing the driver in WfW 3.11 and it just acted as though the card wasn't there. Turns out there are a couple of threads on Vogons that say the Aureal 8820 won't work in Win3.1 with "newer" motherboards as I was getting exactly the same error message. "Couldn't get VxD API" and nobody seems to have a solution. OMORES said in one of the threads he'd look into it, but that was 2021.

PCI Sound card for Windows 3.11 & Dos 6.22?

Ensoniq Audio PCI 3000 the only sound card that works in Windows 3.1 with original drivers on a newer system (3900X)

So I had to go back to the AudioPCI for this system. It may not do 3D in hardware (I think it does EAX 1 in software, but I didn't get it for its 3D), but at least it works in this system. Please be wary of recommending the Aureal Vortex 1.

Reply 9 of 10, by lordmogul

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Sleaka_J wrote on 2024-12-18, 13:37:

I think the DVD drive is playing up though. It's not reading discs and keeps opening the tray, even with no disc. When I push the tray in, it stays closed for about 2 seconds then opens a few millimeters. I don't use it much, but I've just added a fourth OS (XP) on the system and the install disc worked to install XP but stopped afterwards.

That is exactly what they tend to do if something is blocking them.
They close, wait a bit, then open a couple mm (so that whatever is in the way can fall away), then try closing again, and if it doesn't suceed, they extend fully.

I would take the drive out, open it, and clean the mechanism.
Worst result is that nothing changes. But atleast you'll know for sure.
Also can't hurt to see if the belt needs replacement and if it needs new grease.

P3 933EB @1035 (7x148) | CUSL2-C | GF3Ti200 | 256M PC133cl3 @148cl3 | 98SE & XP Pro SP3
X5460 @4.1 (9x456) | P35-DS3R | GTX660Ti | 8G DDR2-800cl5 @912cl6 | XP Pro SP3 & 7 SP1
3570K @4.4 GHz | Z77-D3H | GTX1060 | 16G DDR3-1600cl9 @2133cl12 | 7 SP1

Reply 10 of 10, by Intel486dx33

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When that hard drive dies I would replace it with a Fast Quiet Compact Flash card or SSD
Get an AWE64 sound card. Works with all your operating systems.
Install a Network card and attach it to a WIFI Extender like one from TP-link to give your computer access to your home Network Shares.
I never used a Gotec drive. Maybe add a 5.25 Floppy drive.