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Good 4:3 LCD Monitor

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Reply 160 of 175, by clb

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ruthan wrote on 2024-12-15, 19:25:

Whole problem is created, by that fake support of 70 Hz on monitor side, this way all monitors could be rated with higher refresh rate, that they are able to support "properly".

Fully agree there. I think for a brief period of time in history, all manufacturers would have falsely advertised 70Hz support, even when the panels would have to frameskip.

The Dell 2007FPB official tech specs are at https://dl.dell.com/manuals/all-products/esup … guide_en-us.pdf

They totally did not mention about this technical caveat:

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But, hey, it's almost 2025, and not that Dell's business advertisement division would have learned any better 😀

Reply 161 of 175, by ruthan

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I recently discovered the same thing with RAM modules at local shops, they are advertised max frequency and timing, but these timings are for some much lesser frequencies. Its often works, but it's sort of overlooking and false advertisement for sure.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 162 of 175, by dr_st

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clb wrote on 2024-12-15, 20:17:

Result: https://youtu.be/p95zPv9kDTk : ASUS PA248QV (left) against Dell 2007FPB (right)

There the Dell2007FPB never displays the box with frame number 5 on it.

It looks like a 2007WFP to me, but yeah, I'm sure the result would be the same.

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Reply 163 of 175, by clb

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dr_st wrote on 2024-12-15, 21:09:
clb wrote on 2024-12-15, 20:17:

Result: https://youtu.be/p95zPv9kDTk : ASUS PA248QV (left) against Dell 2007FPB (right)

There the Dell2007FPB never displays the box with frame number 5 on it.

It looks like a 2007WFP to me, but yeah, I'm sure the result would be the same.

The display on the right in the above YouTube video is the 2007FPB (i.e. the 4:3 aspect ratio display), it is just phone camera distortion that makes it look wider. I do have the widescreen 2007WFP (1680x1050) as well though, and it does behave the same with respect to this 70Hz vs 60Hz business.

Reply 164 of 175, by rmay635703

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clb wrote on 2024-12-15, 22:42:
dr_st wrote on 2024-12-15, 21:09:
clb wrote on 2024-12-15, 20:17:

Result: https://youtu.be/p95zPv9kDTk : ASUS PA248QV (left) against Dell 2007FPB (right)

There the Dell2007FPB never displays the box with frame number 5 on it.

It looks like a 2007WFP to me, but yeah, I'm sure the result would be the same.

The display on the right in the above YouTube video is the 2007FPB (i.e. the 4:3 aspect ratio display), it is just phone camera distortion that makes it look wider. I do have the widescreen 2007WFP (1680x1050) as well though, and it does behave the same with respect to this 70Hz vs 60Hz business.

Syncmaster usually handled 70/75hz better than other vintage screens

Reply 165 of 175, by shamino

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2024-12-15, 09:59:
shamino wrote on 2024-12-15, 09:06:

IPS and PVA panels have a great picture but at least in this era, they are unfortunately very specific about only supporting 60Hz. TN panels don't look as good but they go up to 75Hz without frameskipping.

This has nothing to do with panel type. 17-19 inch IPS/xVA support 75Hz just fine.

Seriously?
So I made a mistake when I threw out an 18" 1280x1024 Dell Ultrasharp a few years ago, thinking I had no use for keeping it? Damn.

Reply 166 of 175, by clb

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To add insult to injury, this morning I played a bit of Foray in the Forest on the Dell 2007FPB now that I had it connected, and I realized that additionally when it is in such 70hz->60hz frameskipping mode, it actually updates the screen without respect to vsync, and the result is that the display tears. Too bad 😒

As another thought, I got an idea to check what the Checkmate A1500 Plus retro display did: https://www.checkmate1500plus.com/ , but their product page doesn't seem to print even the basic technical specifications of the display. Anyone know what the max resolution and hsync/vsync rates of that display is?

Reply 167 of 175, by rmay635703

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clb wrote on 2024-12-16, 12:46:

To add insult to injury, this morning I played a bit of Foray in the Forest on the Dell 2007FPB now that I had it connected, and I realized that additionally when it is in such 70hz->60hz frameskipping mode, it actually updates the screen without respect to vsync, and the result is that the display tears. Too bad 😒

As another thought, I got an idea to check what the Checkmate A1500 Plus retro display did: https://www.checkmate1500plus.com/ , but their product page doesn't seem to print even the basic technical specifications of the display. Anyone know what the max resolution and hsync/vsync rates of that display is?

I’ve always been quite skeptical of the checkmate, I have no doubt it will be capable of supporting everything
but the screens are still a new built legacy panel with new driverboard and tech bolted on. They also come in resolutions that aren’t ideal for scaling every input resolution and the featureset of having image processing or scanlines will be equally problematic.

So There will be some sacrifices and I have to guess that the lag will vary based on what the source is and what scaling/features you use.

As such I have a strong bet that the lag is still in flux and variable, so they are expecting to be saved by firmware updates down the road.

It’s unfortunate that no manufacturer can find a way to market modern very high resolution 4:3 displays to the high end and specialty markets taking us vintage folks along for the ride.
Other wierd and random form factors and aspect ratios are for sale that assumably sell in small volumes like 3:2 or 2:1 screens for example yet we can’t find our way to continue producing 4:3 in semi-modern resolutions and sizes.

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Last edited by rmay635703 on 2024-12-17, 02:28. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 168 of 175, by Shponglefan

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clb wrote on 2024-12-16, 12:46:

As another thought, I got an idea to check what the Checkmate A1500 Plus retro display did: https://www.checkmate1500plus.com/ , but their product page doesn't seem to print even the basic technical specifications of the display. Anyone know what the max resolution and hsync/vsync rates of that display is?

The 19" panel they are using is the BOE DV190E0M-N11. It's a 1280x1024 (5:4) panel. They are advertising it as supporting up to 75Hz.

This is from the panel spec sheet:

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Reply 169 of 175, by ruthan

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Well just exchange notebook panel which is broken is now common in very computer repair shop..
You can get this panel half of price of CHeckmate from China, but question is, if there is some old monitor, where is possible to replace panel and its not complicated? I almost never heard about panel replacing in pc monitors, except just swap panel for same one..
In theory someone can just create some monitor frame parts for some 3D printing and make some bulk order of them.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 170 of 175, by ruthan

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I have 1 more. 1600x1200 21" LCD monitor, which not TN, not IPS, better than nothing SPVA, in specs is this:

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I guess its probably another specs cheater?

Otherwise i had like 4 years in my bed storage space, Acer VG240Y bmiix, now just thought than i should do something with it. I bought when i was working in other city, to just have some monitor for evenings, it was cheap IPS Freesync choice.

Interesting part its 75 Hz Freesync monitor which still have VGA (D-SUB) input, so at least on need for additional box.. which slow resolution switching, yeah only 1920x1080 so, no 1600x1200.
https://www.displayspecifications.com/en/model/d40d12f7

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Its going 70 or 75 Hz in very few resolution. What is related to Dos 320x200 - 720x400 mode, so 70Hz? 320x240 is guess 640x480, so there only 60Hz.

Same question could this one work at least for some Dos 70Hz stuff?

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Last edited by ruthan on 2024-12-20, 04:13. Edited 2 times in total.

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 171 of 175, by rmay635703

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ruthan wrote on 2024-12-20, 03:52:

I have 1 more. 1600x1200 21" LCD monitor, which not TN, not IPS, better than nothing SPVA, in specs is this:

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I guess its probably another specs cheater?

Stinkmasters rarely cheated and were usually expensive and legit in their true multisync performance.
Some of these screens came in multiple sub models with one supporting TV like features which are greatly helped by proper multi sync support.

These were higher end combo tv monitor setups back when that was both non-standard and useful as opposed to today where you can’t really buy a high end Monitor (that is a monitor first) that has an afterthought tv turner and features (these days TVs are usually considered lower end and typically get gimped for pc use in some way)

Reply 173 of 175, by ruthan

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Hmm, this one is new one. Seems promising maxed to 75 Hz for VGA, there 70/75 Hz modes besides of 60 Hz.. so i we should hope that they are not created just by cheating. No Freesynch, we have to discover if is good or bad thing for Dos..

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I had to use 7zip for monitor PDF, i was too big.

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Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.

Reply 174 of 175, by rmay635703

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Gotta wonder how well these 5 megapixel 5:4 LCD displays work

https://www.ampronix.com/wide-cx50n?srsltid=A … mebTNI-r3Cxaxcm

They occasionally show up as scrap or on eBay and apparently Samsung did make a 23” 4:3 display as well

Reply 175 of 175, by ruthan

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I today on my alternative testbench with freesynch monitor and convertors/hdmi switch, run once more 60Hz and 70Hz.. and i saw the difference, which i dont saw on Dell 2007P or in previous tests.

SImply with 60Hz mode, i see moving elements disappear before they reach the end of the display, like in the 4:3 black pillar boxes mode and with 70 Hz they reach edge of the screen.

Isn't that what we where looking for? Second possibility that both test are using different resolution.. I looked into source code, but im not sure 1 test is 320x240, second has slightly different code which i dont fully understand.

https://www.ampronix.com/wide-cx50n?srsltid=A … mebTNI-r3Cxaxcm
Thx this medical professional stuff could save us, even if its 60 Hz only, 2560x2048, means nice 2560x1920 for 4:3, which could beat even 2048x1536 old Dos 21/22 CRTs and there would not beat 2 ugly trinitron lines in middle of the screen.
Its IPS, 21" to.. Its 2x 1280x1024 / 1280x960 as bonus for clear picture.. same with 640x480 and 640x400.

Obvious flaw of this one is no D-SUB VGA, so it needs some box in front anyway.. main problem of these boxes + LCD monitoring is also resolution switching, i dunno if should blame box or monitor probably monitor, but old CRT switched resolutions faster, so have difference resolution for game and menu, videos or even inventory wasnt big problem.
But if we would know name of the panel, there is chance that some company produced it with D-SUB VGA 15 pin too..

Update: Just checked they have to CX30n and Cx20n models - first 2048x1536 and second 1600x1200 all are 21.3.. Im not expert about color bits, but 30 bits, seems enough, its i guess 3x 10 bits and normal monitors are usually 8 bits, if im not wrong.. "30-bits RGB Color signal input support via DisplayPort"

I checked the manual from here - http://www.widecorp.com/?act=shop.goods_view&GS=79&GC=GD0800 , there is not mentioned refresh rate, but there is synch type:
Hsync : 103KHz
Vsynch = 50Hz // Other models have 60Hz
Dot CLK : 296MHz
I dont have PowerStrip in my head or installed to let it calculate refresh rates for these values - which i usually did, i asked ChatGP and it gave me this:
Refresh Rate (Hz)= Hsync (Hz)/ Total Vertical Lines (including blanking)
Refresh Rate (Hz)= 103,00/ 2816 ≈ 36.6Hz, which not nice..

Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.