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Getting my first 3dfx card. Any advice?

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First post, by songoffall

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I've been dreaming of a 3dfx card since the late 90s, when I saw how Aliens vs. Predator was running on a friend's PC, I think in 99.

For context, my country was part of the USSR, and it took a while for technology to catch up, and 286 class PCs - or having a PC at all - was a luxury in the first half of the 90s. My first computer was a Compaq Contura 430C with a 486DX4 and it wasn't really a gaming system - a passive matrix LCD, only PC speaker sound, Dangerous Dave was playable, Prehistoric already had too much ghosting.

In 99, on the lower end, you might get S3 Trio64, S3 Virge, Rage3D Pro onboard graphics. Matrox Mystique or Millennium on the higher end, and a TNT2 as a top of the line option. My first more or less gaming-capable GPU I got in 2001 - a GeForce2 Mx200, and it was seen as a high-end option.

So I think you'll understand how hardware accelerated graphics in 99 looked like magic to me. Sadly, couldn't afford one then - and Voodoos were in vogue in a very specific window in time.

I've been itching for a Voodoo card - I actually wanted a Voodoo2 for my Compaq DeskPro 2000 - but I think you've all seen the prices on Ebay.

So I saw a Voodoo3 3000 AGP on sale for about $120 and snatched it, will be delivered to me in the beginning of January.

I guess there must be some 3dfx veterans here. Any advice for a newbie? Fun stuff I can do with it? What's the best CPU pairing for a Voodoo3?

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 1 of 61, by Joseph_Joestar

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There are certain games that look best when played in Glide mode, even if they do support other APIs. Myself and several others have been documenting them in this thread.

On the flip side, some early Glide games were designed with the Voodoo 1 in mind, and won't work correctly on a Voodoo 3. Some examples include Mortal Kombat 4 (Glide mode not working, Direct3D runs fine) and Pandemonium. There are more details in this thread.

As for the Voodoo 3 drivers, I prefer to use the latest official ones i.e. 1.07.00-whql. These require DirectX 7, so be sure to install that beforehand. In terms of CPU power, the Voodoo 3 will scale up to around 1 GHz. Going higher than that provides diminishing results.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 2 of 61, by songoffall

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-12-20, 14:05:

There are certain games that look best when played in Glide mode, even if they do support other APIs. Myself and some other people on the forum have been documenting them in this thread.

On the flip side, some early Glide games were designed with the Voodoo 1 in mind, and won't work correctly on a Voodoo 3. Some examples include Mortal Kombat 4 (Glide mode not working, Direct3D runs fine) and Pandemonium. There are more details in this thread.

In terms of Voodoo 3 drivers, I prefer to use the latest official ones i.e. 1.07.00-whql. These require DirectX 7, so be sure to install that beforehand. In terms of CPU power, the Voodoo 3 will scale up to around 1 GHz. Going higher than that provides diminishing results.

I think I'll get a 440BX motherboard and start with the 500MHz Pentium 3 CPUs I already have, and upgrade for a 733MHz Coppermine later then. That should be an appropriate late 1999/early 2000 setup.

I'll make sure to install DX7 before the Voodoo drivers, thanks for the heads up.

Is there VXD and WDM drivers like with sound cards?

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 3 of 61, by Munx

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Get some direct airflow on the card, they get pretty hot.

Then install Unreal, pick Glide renderer and enjoy!

My builds!
The FireStarter 2.0 - The wooden K5
The Underdog - The budget K6
The Voodoo powerhouse - The power-hungry K7
The troll PC - The Socket 423 Pentium 4

Reply 4 of 61, by Joseph_Joestar

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songoffall wrote on 2024-12-20, 14:23:

Is there VXD and WDM drivers like with sound cards?

Nope, just official and unofficial (fan made) driver packs. I stick with the official ones so I can't really speak about the latter. Maybe there are WDM drivers for Windows 2000 though.

Also, as Munx already noted, adding a fan for active cooling will ensure that your Voodoo 3 lives longer. There are several ways to do that. Personally, I prefer using a PCI fan bracket and fitting one or two Noctua fans on there, as that method doesn't require modifying the Voodoo 3 in any way. To clarify, I mean something like this.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 5 of 61, by Intel486dx33

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Use a compact flash card or SSD in your computer.
256mb of RAM for best performance
Put a good heat sink and fan on your Voodoo card to prolong its life.
This 3dfx chip runs very hot.
Get a Fast CDROM 32x or Faster
Apply Windows updates, service packs and patches. Especially if you use an AMD CPU.

Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2024-12-24, 13:24. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 6 of 61, by Babasha

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-12-20, 16:31:
Use a compact flash card or SSD in your computer. 256mb of RAM for best performance Put a good heat sink and fan on your Voodoo […]
Show full quote

Use a compact flash card or SSD in your computer.
256mb of RAM for best performance
Put a good heat sink and fan on your Voodoo card to prolong its life.
This 3dfx chip runs very hot.

Ideal solution for card textolite deformation and lost-contact legs on main chips and memory! Bravo!!!

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware 😉

Reply 7 of 61, by songoffall

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Munx wrote on 2024-12-20, 14:30:

Get some direct airflow on the card, they get pretty hot.

Then install Unreal, pick Glide renderer and enjoy!

Noted. TBH I almost always add some active cooling to my cards, even my GeForce4 MX440 got one - if not for throttling, then for longevity.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 8 of 61, by songoffall

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2024-12-20, 16:31:
Use a compact flash card or SSD in your computer. 256mb of RAM for best performance Put a good heat sink and fan on your Voodoo […]
Show full quote

Use a compact flash card or SSD in your computer.
256mb of RAM for best performance
Put a good heat sink and fan on your Voodoo card to prolong its life.
This 3dfx chip runs very hot.

TBH I've never seen an IDE SSD in real life, and may have seen some on sale, but those were 2.5 inch, 44-pin drives.

I was thinking about going forward with this project, except with 40-pin 3.5 SSDs, 32 and 64 GB capacities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMCz0VsEbqc

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 9 of 61, by songoffall

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songoffall wrote on 2024-12-20, 13:38:

For context, my country was part of the USSR, and it took a while for technology to catch up, and 286 class PCs - or having a PC at all - was a luxury in the first half of the 90s. My first computer was a Compaq Contura 430C with a 486DX4 and it wasn't really a gaming system - a passive matrix LCD, only PC speaker sound, Dangerous Dave was playable, Prehistoric already had too much ghosting.

In 99, on the lower end, you might get S3 Trio64, S3 Virge, Rage3D Pro onboard graphics. Matrox Mystique or Millennium on the higher end, and a TNT2 as a top of the line option. My first more or less gaming-capable GPU I got in 2001 - a GeForce2 Mx200, and it was seen as a high-end option.

Just saw the SiS graphics control panel and realized I had that image burned into my brain from my university days and then suppressed.

May the Machine God have mercy on those who had an integrated SiS 315E graphics card.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 10 of 61, by songoffall

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Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2024-12-20, 14:36:
songoffall wrote on 2024-12-20, 14:23:

Is there VXD and WDM drivers like with sound cards?

Nope, just official and unofficial (fan made) driver packs. I stick with the official ones so I can't really speak about the latter. Maybe there are WDM drivers for Windows 2000 though.

Also, as Munx already noted, adding a fan for active cooling will ensure that your Voodoo 3 lives longer. There are several ways to do that. Personally, I prefer using a PCI fan bracket and fitting one or two Noctua fans on there, as that method doesn't require modifying the Voodoo 3 in any way. To clarify, I mean something like this.

That bracket doesn't look bad at all actually, I might try it. I usually have some brackets 3d printed to adapt the fan to the GPU heatsink.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 11 of 61, by soggi

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120 $ for a Voodoo3? That's maybe more than I paid for a brand new Voodoo3 2000 back then in 1999/2000 (209,- DM), crazy. Got my Voodoos for almost nothing to 10 EUR (except the Voodoo5 5500 which cost me 150,- EUR).

BTW this Voodoo3 2000 from back then dropped it's cooler during having a LAN party and being overclocked - suddenly the screen got scrambled being in a game, reboot...playing for some minutes...again...then I noticed the cooler has dropped, an open case together with a room ventilator was the solution for the LAN party. The hardware itself was still OK...I want to say that a Voodoo3 (the Avenger GPU) is hard to kill, but having a fan is not a bad idea.

I would go with a ECS Elitegroup K7S5A together with the CheepoBios 1.21 beta, 512 MiB DDR RAM and an Athlon XP, a motherboard with VIA KT266/333 would also be OK...but you can also take slot 1 / socket 370 with Intel i440BX, i815(E(P)), VIA Apollo Pro 133A/T and Intel Pentium III. I would recommend a CPU with SSE. If you don't care...then Pentium II Deschutes, Athlon Thunderbird and below to K6-2 are also OK. Personally I started with a K6-2 333 on a VIA MVP3 board with the before mentioned Voodoo3 2000, but as said would recommend a higher clocked platform.

Latest official (incl. DirectX 8 Beta) drivers are available from my website's 3dfx drivers page -> https://soggi.org/drivers/3dfx-voodoo.htm, official 3dfx tech demos from -> https://soggi.org/video-cards/tech-demos.htm and some 3dfx related game patches (if needed) from -> https://soggi.org/misc/3dfx-voodoo-game-patches.htm.

Have fun!

kind regards
soggi

Last edited by soggi on 2024-12-21, 08:44. Edited 1 time in total.

Vintage BIOSes, firmware, drivers, tools, manuals and (3dfx) game patches -> soggi's BIOS & Firmware Page

soggi.org on Twitter - inactive at the moment

Reply 12 of 61, by Ozzuneoj

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songoffall wrote on 2024-12-20, 14:23:

I think I'll get a 440BX motherboard and start with the 500MHz Pentium 3 CPUs I already have, and upgrade for a 733MHz Coppermine later then. That should be an appropriate late 1999/early 2000 setup.

Just be sure your board will support Coppermine. Many 440BX boards actually have voltage regulators that are limited to 1.8 volts or higher which prevents Coppermine CPUs (1.6v to 1.75v) from working, even if the BIOS supports them. Some discussion of this is in this thread, but you'll want to be sure your specific board (and the VRM installed on it) can handle whatever CPU you intend to install.

Now for some blitting from the back buffer.

Reply 13 of 61, by leileilol

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A V3 will be brighter than usual because 3dfx liked to jack up the gamma by default. They came from the arcade industry where big gamma boosts were common. There will ALSO be a video filter working against the image quality. Some claim this is "22-bit color" that is a marketing lie. What it does is subtly filter out 2x2 blocks of dithering but this can destroy some edges and detail. There's also a 4x1 mode that adds subtle lines to the screen which should by default be visible on higher resolutions.

Many like to compare the V3 to a V2 SLI, but that'd be doing the V3 a disservice because of the new memory controller (not thrashing as much) and the resolution range without any interlace artifacts. There's also more windows game compatibility because it's not a secondary video card - but some earlier glide games won't like it (aforementioned DOS games, but also earlier UnrealEngine games pre-1999. Voodoo3 came with Unreal v222 to avoid bad first impressions)

Also somewhat similar to the video filter mentioned earlier, there's also dither subtraction, listed on the 3dfx tools panel as 'alpha blend quality'.

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long live PCem

Reply 14 of 61, by Joseph_Joestar

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I forgot to mention that there's a "Geometry Assist" option in the driver control panel which can be turned on if you have a Pentium 3 or Athlon CPU:

file.php?id=137017&mode=view

I think it provides a slight boost to performance in Direct3D mode.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Core 2 Duo E8600 / Foxconn P35AX-S / X800 / Audigy2 ZS
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 15 of 61, by soggi

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leileilol wrote on 2024-12-21, 09:01:

...There will ALSO be a video filter working against the image quality. Some claim this is "22-bit color" that is a marketing lie. What it does is subtly filter out 2x2 blocks of dithering but this can destroy some edges and detail. There's also a 4x1 mode that adds subtle lines to the screen which should by default be visible on higher resolutions.

What I know about this story is:

a) what I have seen with my own eyes on real CRT:
16 bit color depth in D3D with Voodoo3 looks much (much) better than 16 bit in D3D on (especially) GF2 MX, Ti, but also TNT(2).

b) what I have read and think is true (because it confirms my observations):
The 22-bit postfilter which is a 4x1 linear filter on earlier Voodoos and a 2x2 box filter on V3s is realized through the RAMDAC...and that's the real point. Screenshots were made out of the framebuffer which is pre-filter - but to have the 16-bit quality output with 22-bit postfilter of the V3, you had to use a framegrabber. But which computer (game) magazine did that? I only remember them telling us that Voodoo3 has just 16-bit rendering quality...being just half the story.

kind regards
soggi

Vintage BIOSes, firmware, drivers, tools, manuals and (3dfx) game patches -> soggi's BIOS & Firmware Page

soggi.org on Twitter - inactive at the moment

Reply 16 of 61, by songoffall

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soggi wrote on 2024-12-21, 08:18:
120 $ for a Voodoo3? That's maybe more than I paid for a brand new Voodoo3 2000 back then in 1999/2000 (209,- DM), crazy. Got my […]
Show full quote

120 $ for a Voodoo3? That's maybe more than I paid for a brand new Voodoo3 2000 back then in 1999/2000 (209,- DM), crazy. Got my Voodoos for almost nothing to 10 EUR (except the Voodoo5 5500 which cost me 150,- EUR).

BTW this Voodoo3 2000 from back then dropped it's cooler during having a LAN party and being overclocked - suddenly the screen got scrambled being in a game, reboot...playing for some minutes...again...then I noticed the cooler has dropped, an open case together with a room ventilator was the solution for the LAN party. The hardware itself was still OK...I want to say that a Voodoo3 (the Avenger GPU) is hard to kill, but having a fan is not a bad idea.

I would go with a ECS Elitegroup K7S5A together with the CheepoBios 1.21 beta, 512 MiB DDR RAM and an Athlon XP, a motherboard with VIA KT266/333 would also be OK...but you can also take slot 1 / socket 370 with Intel i440BX, i815(E(P)), VIA Apollo Pro 133A/T and Intel Pentium III. I would recommend a CPU with SSE. If you don't care...then Pentium II Deschutes, Athlon Thunderbird and below to K6-2 are also OK. Personally I started with a K6-2 333 on a VIA MVP3 board with the before mentioned Voodoo3 2000, but as said would recommend a higher clocked platform.

Latest official (incl. DirectX 8 Beta) drivers are available from my website's 3dfx drivers page -> https://soggi.org/drivers/3dfx-voodoo.htm, official 3dfx tech demos from -> https://soggi.org/video-cards/tech-demos.htm and some 3dfx related game patches (if needed) from -> https://soggi.org/misc/3dfx-voodoo-game-patches.htm.

Have fun!

kind regards
soggi

Thanks, man.

You should check the Voodoo2 prices on Ebay - $250 and up 😀) it's insane. I guess someone snatched all those cheap Voodoo cards back in the day to resell at an insane overhead 😀)

I have a FIC AN11 with a VIA KT266A and Athlon XP 1700+, might try the Voodoo on that one.

But I've wanted to build a 440BX for a very long time, and all I'm missing is a motherboard, which I might get one of these days (I've seen a Lucky Star 6ABX2V for about $40 floating around, sadly - no Coppermine support).

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 17 of 61, by songoffall

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soggi wrote on 2024-12-21, 10:10:
What I know about this story is: […]
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leileilol wrote on 2024-12-21, 09:01:

...There will ALSO be a video filter working against the image quality. Some claim this is "22-bit color" that is a marketing lie. What it does is subtly filter out 2x2 blocks of dithering but this can destroy some edges and detail. There's also a 4x1 mode that adds subtle lines to the screen which should by default be visible on higher resolutions.

What I know about this story is:

a) what I have seen with my own eyes on real CRT:
16 bit color depth in D3D with Voodoo3 looks much (much) better than 16 bit in D3D on (especially) GF2 MX, Ti, but also TNT(2).

b) what I have read and think is true (because it confirms my observations):
The 22-bit postfilter which is a 4x1 linear filter on earlier Voodoos and a 2x2 box filter on V3s is realized through the RAMDAC...and that's the real point. Screenshots were made out of the framebuffer which is pre-filter - but to have the 16-bit quality output with 22-bit postfilter of the V3, you had to use a framegrabber. But which computer (game) magazine did that? I only remember them telling us that Voodoo3 has just 16-bit rendering quality...being just half the story.

kind regards
soggi

When I had my experience with my friend's Voodoo3, I remember using 32-bit color on a TNT2 killed the performance so much it wasn't really worth it in 3d games. And 16-bit did look a lot nicer on Voodoo3, I can confirm that. Not as nice as 32-bit, of course, especially in the shadows, but CRT didn't have the terrible banding we started getting with early LCD screens.

ATM I have 2 CRTs and 3 LCDs, and am about to get my first Trinitron. I think I'll run the Voodoo3 on the Trinitron, because why not 😁

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 18 of 61, by leileilol

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One artifact of 3dfx's dither subtraction is a more noticeable dither pattern when things overdraw, so much for that. CRTs can't hide that or any of the evident discoloration the '22-bit' filter brings to the table. There's been a lot of unexplained cope/gloat around this feature that I grew sick of it and wrote emulation about that years ago.

CRTs are better had to mask the interference some Voodoos have, but that's it. They won't magically 32-bit your 16-bit output and grant better texture formats...

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long live PCem

Reply 19 of 61, by songoffall

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leileilol wrote on 2024-12-22, 07:35:

One artifact of 3dfx's dither subtraction is a more noticeable dither pattern when things overdraw, so much for that. CRTs can't hide that or any of the evident discoloration the '22-bit' filter brings to the table. There's been a lot of unexplained cope/gloat around this feature that I grew sick of it and wrote emulation about that years ago.

CRTs are better had to mask the interference some Voodoos have, but that's it. They won't magically 32-bit your 16-bit output and grant better texture formats...

I never claimed that a Voodoo could give you 32-bit image quality when all your input textures are 16-bit. As I already said, any 32-bit GPU will give a better image than a Voodoo3. TNT2 does it, albeit I remember it doing it at a very high performance overhead, and in most cases it was not worth it.

But when both cards were set at the same 16-bit color, I also remember getting a much better image, especially in smoke and other such stuff, with the Voodoo3, than with TNT2. Tangibly better.

I'm sure there's a reason why Voodoo4 with its true 32-bit output was called "what Voodoo3 should have been". Sadly, I've never seen a Voodoo4 in real life and can say nothing about its image quality.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/256Mb SDRAM/Matrox Mystique/Sound Blaster AWE 32 Value/Aureal Vortex 2
MSI 865P Neo/Pentium 4 HT 3.0GHz/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce FX 5500/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi