VOGONS


First post, by zuldan

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I have a 4GB CF Card I’m trying to split into 2 partitions (C: and D: roughly 2GB each). I’d like them both accessible when I put the card in my Windows 11 machine for file transfers.

DOS supports up to 4 primary partitions on a single disk (https://www.dosdays.co.uk/topics/dos_partitions.php). I created the first primary partitions but when I tried to create the second primary partition FDISK says “Primary partition already exists”. What am I doing wrong?

Reply 1 of 24, by myne

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Which dos?

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Reply 3 of 24, by Grzyb

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Yes, you can have 4 primary partitions - but only one of them can be DOS.

You need to create primary DOS partition (C:), then extended partition, then logical partition (D:) as a part (or whole) of the extended partition.

Zaglądali do kufrów, zaglądali do waliz, nie zajrzeli do dupy - tam miałem klimatyzm.

Reply 4 of 24, by Jo22

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That's how I remember it! ^^

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 5 of 24, by zuldan

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Grzyb wrote on 2025-01-01, 09:17:

Yes, you can have 4 primary partitions - but only one of them can be DOS.

You need to create primary DOS partition (C:), then extended partition, then logical partition (D:) as a part (or whole) of the extended partition.

That did work but Windows 11 can't read the extended partition 🙁

Is there another way to access both partitions on a modern OS for file transfer? I thought of using EZ-Drive to handle the paritions but that would probably make the situation worse with Windows 11.

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Reply 6 of 24, by Grzyb

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No OS can read the extended partition - it's not supposed to contain any filesystem directly, it's supposed to contain logical partition(s).

Looks like you've created one logical partition on the extended partition - good.
But have you formatted it unded DOS ?
Can your DOS normally use it as D: ?

Zaglądali do kufrów, zaglądali do waliz, nie zajrzeli do dupy - tam miałem klimatyzm.

Reply 7 of 24, by zuldan

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Grzyb wrote on 2025-01-01, 09:35:
No OS can read the extended partition - it's not supposed to contain any filesystem directly, it's supposed to contain logical p […]
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No OS can read the extended partition - it's not supposed to contain any filesystem directly, it's supposed to contain logical partition(s).

Looks like you've created one logical partition on the extended partition - good.
But have you formatted it unded DOS ?
Can your DOS normally use it as D: ?

Yep D: has been formatted. I copied some programs to it as well and they run fine. Strange that DOS can read the logical partition on the extended partition but Windows cannot.

Reply 8 of 24, by Jo22

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zuldan wrote on 2025-01-01, 09:28:

Is there another way to access both partitions on a modern OS for file [..]

Well, technically MS-DOS needs no partitions at all.
It's also possible to format the CF card like a so called "super floppy".
As a very large diskette, so to say. It's quite unconventional, though and it may not solve the problem.

Edit: I think I had experimented with this before. Years ago, when Windows 98SE was still a thing.
Speaking of Windows 98SE, it might be able to see the partition.
So by using an emulated or virtualized copy of Windows 98 it might be possible to access the USB card reader somehow?

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 9 of 24, by Grzyb

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zuldan wrote on 2025-01-01, 09:43:

Yep D: has been formatted. I copied some programs to it as well and they run fine. Strange that DOS can read the logical partition on the extended partition but Windows cannot.

Right-click on the logical partition - can you see the "Change Drive Letter and Paths..." option?

Zaglądali do kufrów, zaglądali do waliz, nie zajrzeli do dupy - tam miałem klimatyzm.

Reply 10 of 24, by zuldan

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Grzyb wrote on 2025-01-01, 09:53:
zuldan wrote on 2025-01-01, 09:43:

Yep D: has been formatted. I copied some programs to it as well and they run fine. Strange that DOS can read the logical partition on the extended partition but Windows cannot.

Right-click on the logical partition - can you see the "Change Drive Letter and Paths..." option?

Just an error.

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Plugged the card into another Windows 11 machine and got the same error.

Reply 11 of 24, by Grzyb

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Isn't Windows limited to one partition on removable drives?
It may be a good idea to try to set it as fixed...

Zaglądali do kufrów, zaglądali do waliz, nie zajrzeli do dupy - tam miałem klimatyzm.

Reply 12 of 24, by konc

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Grzyb wrote on 2025-01-01, 10:20:

Isn't Windows limited to one partition on removable drives?
It may be a good idea to try to set it as fixed...

Windows 10 started this behavior but was then fixed with the "creators" update. I'm now reading conflicting things about 11: some can view multiple partitions on a removable device, some cannot. My guess is that this is the problem though, maybe the combination of multiple partitions + FAT32?

@zuldan you can do some tests if you feel like exploring this. For example do the same partitioning (which btw is the correct way to do it for DOS) on a hard disk, windows should display both partitions. Then maybe try partitioning a USB stick likewise and see if the problem is the removable device.

Reply 13 of 24, by waterbeesje

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This is weird. I use Cf al the time and have never ran into this. I use pc dos 5.02, ms dos 6.22 and dos 7.1 (w98SE edition) and extended and logical partitions without a hassle. Windows 9x, XP, 10 and 11 all van see, read and write to it without any problem.

Could this be a boot sector error? When booted to dos, run fdisk /mbr and see what happens.

Long way: you may boot in your old machine with a win 98 se boot disk, run fdisk without support for large stations and reconfigure all partitopns (Will lose all data!)
Next with the w98SE disk format the stations (after the reboot) with the /S option, and overrule the operating system with the desired one. Run fdisk /mbr.
Now check in win11 if it works now

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 14 of 24, by Grzyb

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konc wrote on 2025-01-01, 10:41:

maybe the combination of multiple partitions + FAT32?

I'm assuming it was partitioned and formatted under DOS 6.22 - so no FAT32.

Zaglądali do kufrów, zaglądali do waliz, nie zajrzeli do dupy - tam miałem klimatyzm.

Reply 15 of 24, by zuldan

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Looks like other people have experienced the same issue in the past. Thanks @Konc for the tip.

https://www.elevenforum.com/t/windows-11-only … b-sticks.18333/

Maybe it’s the particular Windows 11 build I have. I’m surprised I haven’t seen other people on a Vogons complain about this issue.

@Grzyb, I’ve tried changing the drive from removable to a local disk but it’s a bit of a nightmare to do if you’re using 64bit Windows https://woshub.com/removable-usb-flash-drive- … k-in-windows-7/

Reply 16 of 24, by wierd_w

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Full pedant:

FDISK will only let you create a single primary dos partition, up to 2gb. All others must be inside an extended partition.

HOWEVER

3rd party tools like PQ magic will allow you to make up to 4 primary dos partitions, if you want. Only one can be set 'active'. (Bootable). Dos will assign them drive letters using the following logic:

Boot volume always C.

Volumes assigned letters in numerical sequence, starting at the top of the table, and then in similar order on any subsequent drives.

Primary volumes given priority over extended partions.

Eg, like this for a this sample partition table and drive setup.

PriMaster
1) pridos 1gb --> D
2) pridos 1gb (*active*, booted from) --> C
3) pridos 1gb --> E
4) extdos (1gb logical) -->F

PriSlave
1) pridos 1gb -->G
2) pridos 1gb (*active*, not booted from) -->H
3) extdos (1gb logical) | (1gb logical) -->I, J
4) NotDedined

Re:

Microsoft shenanigans about devices with multiple partitions.

On win7, there were issues with USB devices that assert the *REMOVABLE DRIVE* capabilities bit, and having multiple partitions. Windows DOES NOT like having multiple partitions on *REMOVABLE DRIVES*. [SD Cards, Cheap USB flash media, SuperFloppies, etc], but is just peachy with them on NONREMOVABLE devices [SATA->USB bridges, etc.]

There is somewhat an exception for this, if you turn off the 'quick removal' protection flag, but only for USB devices. It still bitches mightily about SDCards.

This behavior has been around, and enforced, for quite some time, and relates to how windows enumerates the device in its subsystem.

Nonremovable drives get treated like full disks, by the disk ID subsystem, and thus can contain volumes.

Removable disks are treated as simple volumes themselves (and NOT 'as disks'), and cannot contain additional ones. Unchecking the 'safe removal' box makes windows treat it as a full disk.

SDCard treated *special*. MS has a full-on hateboner for the very idea of treating SDCard like a full disk. To circumvent this, you need to play shenanigans with a disk filter driver, so windows thinks it's just a normal removable disk.

Reply 17 of 24, by DEAT

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Use fdisk from FreeDOS, works perfectly fine without any fuss.

My experience with CF card readers and Windows is that it will only detect the first partition - Linux has no problems seeing the partitions properly.

Reply 18 of 24, by zuldan

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DEAT wrote on 2025-01-03, 02:08:

Use fdisk from FreeDOS, works perfectly fine without any fuss.

My experience with CF card readers and Windows is that it will only detect the first partition - Linux has no problems seeing the partitions properly.

Thanks for the heads up. FDISK on FreeDOS worked perfectly. I now have C: 2GB and D: 1.7GB primary partitions on DOS 6.22 AND Windows 11. Woohoo.

Reply 19 of 24, by Disruptor

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Don't create partitions for DOS usage using Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10 or 11.
DOS needs classic CHS aligned partition scheme.
Above listed operating systems do not care about compatiblity with CHS.