VOGONS

Another DOS distribution available

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First post, by DaveDDS

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I was watching the "MINIDOS" thread... but it got shut down due to piracy
concerns... I've contacted vogons admin to confirm that this one is OK...
but I've not heard back - I'm pretty sure this one is... as MicroSoft has
released MS-DOS 4 under the MIT license... but if I am told otherwise, I
will immediately take it down!

Over the years, I've written A LOT of tools and utilities, many of which are 16
DOS programs (for a few reasons):
- Many were written back when DOS was my main development system.
- Most are written with my own MICRO-C toolset which I originally created for
DOS and for various reasons have not tried to move it to more complex OSs.
- Some require direct hardware access not easily done under "" "" ""!

When I wish to give to others, I'm finding that more and more people don't have
a DOS system available, meaning I also have to give them a DOS boot floppy.

Until recently I've used PC-DOS 7.1, although never "officially free", was
included in "Server guide scripting toolkit" which IBM did give away for free!
This was bigger/more complex than M-DOS 5 (the one I'm most used to) and has
some intrinsic bugs (obviously not an official IBM PCDOS release), but worked!

I've tried FREEDOS - it's bigger/bloated and has more bugs/incompatibility.

In 2024, Microsoft released MS-DOS 4.0 (and it's source code) under the MIT
license. This "feels"' closer to DOS 5.0, is a bit smaller, missing a few high-
memory features (that most of my tools don't need/use)
- so I've made this my "deployable DOS"

You can read the Microsoft announcement here:
https://opensource.microsoft.com/blog/2024/04 … ing-ms-dos-4-0/

So... I've made up a deployment diskette, a single 1.44m which has:
DOS itself
Extra tools: my screen editor, file transfer tools, utilities etc.
A LOT "packet" drivers supporting many network cards.
my ImageDisk (archive/restore most any diskette type)

Available on my site: Downloads -> 3rd Party -> MS-DOS

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 1 of 9, by Robbbert

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I thought MSDOS 4.0 had bugs that were so bad that a new version had to be issued immediately.

Reply 2 of 9, by Grzyb

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Robbbert wrote on 2025-01-19, 03:37:

I thought MSDOS 4.0 had bugs that were so bad that a new version had to be issued immediately.

Yes, same as MS-DOS 6.0.

Kiełbasa smakuje najlepiej, gdy przysmażysz ją laserem!

Reply 3 of 9, by DaveDDS

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Robbbert wrote on 2025-01-19, 03:37:

I thought MSDOS 4.0 had bugs that were so bad that a new version had to be issued immediately.

I haven't used it much yet, I kinds went from 3.3 -> 5.0 myself.
So far I've not seen any major problems, but to be honest my need is a "deployable DOS" are quite low, all it
really needs to do is have a mountable RAMdrive, provide access to read/write files, and load/run programs
(including TSR network packer drivers). I mostly use my own software/commands...

So far tested it as a platform to run ImageDisk and using packet drivers and DDLINK I've
moved such images to/from it over a network.

I know MS has also released 1.0 and 2.0, if I do have problems with 4 I'll see if they've released 3.3
(which I have a LOT of experience with, and still use on a PoQET PC 😀 Otherwise I'll have to go back
to PCDOS 7.1 (which has worked well, except for problems with FDISK and FORMAT which makes it
hard to "install" in some locations! - and I'd prefer "officially released" 😀

In setting this up, I also made a nice little interactive tool to select and extract desired files
from .ZIPs which lets me .ZIP most everything, thereby fitting a lot more on a single disk....
That will move if I decide to change platforms again!

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 5 of 9, by Grzyb

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DaveDDS wrote on 2025-01-19, 05:40:

I'll see if they've released 3.3

No, they didn't.
Microsoft is still Microsoft - can't expect them to open the source of anything useful, only the most bugged versions.

Kiełbasa smakuje najlepiej, gdy przysmażysz ją laserem!

Reply 6 of 9, by Jo22

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Robbbert wrote on 2025-01-19, 03:37:

I thought MSDOS 4.0 had bugs that were so bad that a new version had to be issued immediately.

Hi. There were two types of MS-DOS 4, I think.
The "European" MS-DOS 4 (MT-DOS, Multi-Tasking DOS or M/T MS-DOS) from 1986 and regular MS-DOS 4 from 1988.

The first one was an predecessor to OS/2 and could multitask especially written DOS programs.
It was used in Europe by companies like Siemens, I think. In special, internal applications were multitasking was needed.

The regular MS-DOS/PC-DOS 4 was a successor to MS-DOS/PC-DOS 3.3, but it was improved in several ways.
These improvements were FAT16B filesystem (aka Big DOS) with 2GB partitions, an installable filesystem (IFS) and new kernal (new kernal structures in RAM, too) etc.

It also got DOS Shell, too, albeit that was an older version (later version was a re-write).
Unfortunately, DOS 4 ended up being bigger and certain third-party utilities such as compress (defrag program from PC-Tools) needed updates with special DOS 4 support in order to work.

IBM/Microsoft had thought that it's okay that DOS 4 on a 640KB RAM PC leaves same amout of free memory to applications like DOS 3.x would on a 512KB RAM PC.
That was a mistake. In reality, users had used DOS 3.x with full 640KB RAM expansion already and needed every KB of free RAM.

MS-DOS/PC-DOS 5 then went back to MS-DOS/PC-DOS 3.x kernal.
It was an answer to DR DOS 5, which was released after MS-DOS/PC-DOS 4 was out.
Digital Research DOS 5 introduced things like HMA support and a graphical shell (ViewMax, a mutilated version of GEM Desktop).

MS-DOS (PC-DOS) 4 from 1988 was a dead-end, so to say. Like Winamp 3 was.
It had interesting features like the IFS, but at the time it wasn't very beloved.
But thanks to MS-DOS/PC-DOS 4, many classic applications had been updated one more time to support the final FAT16 filesystem as we know it (not counting VFAT).
Early tools like PC-Tools or Norton Utilities might have not been updated anymore by late 80s if MS-DOS/PC-DOS 4 hadn't been.
So in this hindsight, MS-DOS/PC-DOS 4 had brought a breath of fresh air into existing DOS landscape.

Speaking under correction.

Edit: I think there had been an minor update to MS-DOS/PC-DOS 4 by 1989/1990 that fixed the most severe bugs.A bugfix release, so to say.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 8 of 9, by DaveDDS

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A few more changes...

- removed more of MS tools I never use... make DOS.IMG smaller, so I could...

- Added my Micro-C/PC toolset as an unpackable package
** Single DOS floppy has: DOS, ImageDisk, complete C development tools,
++ file transfer tools, and over 60 network "packet" drivers!
** Yeah, I don't know if anyone else would want these, but I'm making this
++ mainly for myself, and I frequently want to boot these on a NON-DOS system.

- Removed original MS disk images (replaced with mention in the README)
++ this makes the download a LOT smaller, and anyone can get the originals
++ direct from MS

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Reply 9 of 9, by DaveDDS

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Just in case anyone in interested:

I've just made some major improvements, and posted boot image packages (on my
site) with BOTH commercial DOS versions that are freely available:

PC-DOS 7.1 and MS-DOS 4.0

The packages contains:

FDI.COM <- Manipulate floppy images (make, add/remove/delete files, list dir)
XDISK.COM <- Read/Write images to real floppy drives (in DOS)
DSKWRITE.EXE <- simplest/smallest tool I've found to write img->dsk (Windows)
+ You can use "DD" in linux
DOS.IMG <- 1.44m bootable floppy image, containing:
Core DOS boot files + HIMEM.SYS + RAMDRIVE.SYS/XMSDSK.EXE + COMMAND.COM
CONFIG.SYS + AUTOEXEC.BAT <= configure basic system with working RAMdrive
ZDIR.COM + ZEX.COM + UNZIP.EXE <= Tool to easily view/extract from .ZIPs
DOS.ZIP <= Many DOS standard tools
DDS.ZIP <= My own tools I often use setting up a new system, incl:
+ EDT (text editor), DDLINK (serial/parallel/lan file transfer)
+ TFTP (IP filetransfer), PCINIC (idenfity most PCI nics)
+ FVB/FVT/FCB/FCT (file view/compare), IDC (interactive directory compare)
+ PC100 (VT-100 tty emulator with Xmodem)
PKT.ZIP <= *many* (>60) network packer drivers for variouis NICS
;With all of the above, about 250k free to add "other stuff"
;On these ones I've included:
IMD.ZIP <= ImageDisk
MCPC.ZIP <= My own Micro-C/PC development toolet

Also some .TXT files
README.TXT <= Covers the basics, how to boot/setup a system,
+ A samble/small DOSBOX.INI to boot DOS.IMG image within DosBox
DDLINK.TXT, EDT.TXT, PC100.TXT, TFTP.TXT <= Docs for tools in DDS.ZIP
+ They all show simple help text with: tool -? -or- tool <no options>
PKT.TXT <= Descriptions of the packet drivers in PKT.ZIP

NOTE: To fit everything on one 1.44 (and leave room for adding other packages),
I've dropped some of the DOS files that I almost never use (please let me know
if I've dropped something you consider crucial).
- In other words, think of this as a quick way to deploy something with DOS,
not so much as a full-blown DOS install!

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

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