VOGONS


First post, by Hannelore

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Hi, I would like to build some dual-boot Win XP and Win 98SE systems for retro lans.
Mainly I think I will use the Socket A systems with Athlon XP CPU because they are easier to find and not so expensive. Also, I already own a lot of them and it is the system I started with in my childhood^^.
I have already read that Socket 939/754 could be a better choice because of more performance and also Win 98 support, but they are already more rare and expensive 😖
Also im not so familiar with 939/774 sockets which support Win98SE (seems PCIe boards have less support for Win98 and AGP boards are rare).

Now for the video card. This is tricky.
Mainly we will be playing games under Windows XP (Doom3, FarCry... maybe I would even try to run a bit of Crysis, but just for fun on low settings - high seems impossible I know^^).
For some games I would like to have Win98SE and also for the good old Windows 9x feeling it is nice to have this OS.
The last supported Nvidia GPU under Win98SE seems to be the 6000 series. I have read that the 7000 series might work with some driver mods. But I don't want to do too much modding. I just want to keep it as original as possible.
But another thing I have read is that the 6000 series had driver problems with some games under Win98SE. Also some people mentioned that the AGP cards with PCIe bridges had more problems.

I have a lot of Nvidia GF 6600 GT AGP cards and also some 6800LE and 6800GT as well as a 6600. Most of these use the PCIe bridge.
Is the driver support under Win98SE really that bad? Which version should I use? The nvidia driver page tells me that v81.98 is the latest for Win98.
Is there a workaround to make Win98 as compatible as possible with the 6000 series cards and not waste all these cards? Also I want to avoid buying other cards as the prices seem to go crazy with AGP cards and I also think I should not go lower than the 6000 series cause then the windows xp games like Doom3, FarCry... will get into trouble.

Reply 1 of 12, by Tiido

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It isn't that the card is badly supported by the drivers, it is the drivers that support the card are just unstable on Win98 and ME. They have compatibility issues with earlier games but you seem to care about the newer stuff so this probably isn't the issue. Just be prepared for random BSODs, it is the reality of the 8x.xx nVidia drivers + win9x

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 2 of 12, by Hannelore

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Thx.
Ok, according some additional research it seems some ppl are using older drivers like 66.X
So maybe this would be a workaround using older versions?

Reply 3 of 12, by Tiido

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The older ones are definitely better, but I don't know what is the earliest one that will work with a 6600. You're gonna have to experiment and be ready to do several OS reinstalls, since these experiments often result in unrecoverable system.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
Newly made 4MB 60ns 30pin SIMMs ~
mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 4 of 12, by chinny22

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If you already have the card no harm in trying!

I've a 6800 Ultra in my "Final Win98 Supported Hardware build" and for me the only games that were completely broken were C&C Generals and Need for Speed games.
And as Tido said maybe I could do some more experiments but was happy enough as really have better suited PC's for both XP and 98.

You say this is for LAN games which I'm guessing your friends are running XP? I'd focus on that OS as getting different OSs to play nice can be a pain when all you want to do is have a game.
And if it can do 98 just count it as a bonus

Reply 5 of 12, by Hannelore

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Thx 😀
Yep the 98 is nice to have and not the main OS for LANs. maybe we will play a few games on it but majority will be on Win XP.

Reply 6 of 12, by agent_x007

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Note : All NV41/NV42 based 6800-series cards don't have PCIe HSI bridge (since they are native PCIe).

Reply 7 of 12, by sfryers

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66.94 appears to be the earliest driver version I've had working on a 6600GT under Win98SE. If I recall correctly, it was pretty stable but some older games had issues with missing textures.

MT-32 Editor- a timbre editor and patch librarian for Roland MT-32 compatible devices: https://github.com/sfryers/MT32Editor

Reply 8 of 12, by Ydee

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GF 6800 (and GT, LE and Ultra) was supported from Forceware 61.76.

Reply 9 of 12, by henk717

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I have a 6800GT and its ok in 98 but for a Windows 98 only build don't get it. I have spent years with the card at this point so I know a decent amount about it.

The issue is not the card, its the drivers that are not ideal in 98. The most stable one you can find (I tried all of them) is the 77.72 driver. This is the only one that from memoru ran the EAX Goldrush demo.

The second big nono for this card is using DVI, DVI has bugs with dos command prompt windows that are not present on VGA output.

The remaining issues are games just not playing nice with it since they expect an old GPU. For my system I solve this by pairing the GPU with a Voodoo 2. If I run into a game that doesnt like it such as some of the need for speed games I use the Voodoo 2 instead.

Getting a 6000 series card should be for those who like me want to have flexible systems with multiple operating systems. It shines much more in XP where driver 260 is the best one (One of the last drivers where retail Half-Life 2 runs correct and I havent had problems in other games there either).

In DOS the card performs great for me, no issues in games like keen 4. No issues playing duke nukem.

But if you don't want to go the dual boot route getting a 4000 series card with that 45 driver makes more sense.

Reply 10 of 12, by AlexZ

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Don't use GeForce 6000 series and newer in Windows 98. The last series that work well is 5000 provided you use driver version 45.23. You would have to buy GeForce 4800 or 5800 to have a decent experience in mid Windows XP era. Price of these cards means building a multi OS rig is usually not possible.

AGP cards are not powerful enough for demanding late Windows XP era games, especially racing games. Sports games are fine.

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Reply 11 of 12, by DoZator

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The earliest thing that worked fine for me on a GeForce 6800 Ultra (NV40) was ForceWare 60.86 (Beta).
The problems are common for all 60+ versions. In particular, the native D3D renderer in NFS:2000 did not work correctly. So I had to replace it. And there are such problems. An alternative solution is sometimes to use nGlide or an OpenGL alternative driver. Most problems can be solved. However, using a driver higher than ForceWare 77.72 can lead to even more problems (They are actually broken). Therefore, you should choose a video card that does not exceed this driver version for actual compatibility, and for best compatibility results, it is preferable to stay within ForceWare 2.0 (<60) or use multiple video cards.

Reply 12 of 12, by Socket3

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6000 series are mostly fine in win9x, particularly the 6800 since they are supported by earlyer drivers. The 6600 is supported as well and mostly runs fine but like others have said, there can be some issues with select games + driver combinations. Nothing so common to make you swear off using a 6600gt under win98 tough. Most multiplayer games my lanparty group plays run perfectly under win9x with a 6600gt (dungeon keeper 2, quake 2, unreal tournament, homeworld, black and white, sacrifice, warcraft 3, nfs 5 porsche, etc).

Keep in mind you don't NEED to use a 6 series card under win98 under any circumstance - a 5900xt / radeon 9700 pro will run any 1997-2000 game perfectly @ 1600x1200 with all eye candy maxed out, so the only reason to use a 6 series card under 98 is if you're dual booting XP and want to play newer, 2003-2004 games as well.