1) Max Diskette Formatter 2.0 (russian interface)
2) FFormat 2.97 or lower (english/russian interface)

Set diskette type to max HD (80 tracks, 17-18 sec), start formatting, bad tracks = low density media, unfortunately first tracks belong to edge of disk and can hold HD density even for DD disks, inner tracks much more sensitive to recording density.
There is now way to determinate 40 or 80 tracks origin diskette type (imho)...

basically SS DD =180k, DS DD = 360k, DS HD = 1.2mb
You should use a true 360k floppy drive to format SS DD and DS DD.

General guides:
* Has a plastic ring on the media: 360K
* No plastic ring: 1.2MB
* Single-sided: If 360K fails to format the other side.
You can use VGACopy or IMGDisk to format and see if there are errors during writing to second side.

Aloha !

Like I said, I'm currently formatting in various formats up until the point until it does not fail anymore.
With the suggested programs I need to do the same; Format until it stops failing.
I need something automated.

wbahnassi wrote on 2025-02-08, 22:32:

. . . IMGDisk to format . . .

I have already tried IMD but it is way above my knowledge. I was unable to format any floppy.
Interleave ? Double step ? etc....

Cheeeeeeeeers

Jecepede

jecepede wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:46:

SS DD DS DD DS HD etc.... […]
Show full quote

SS DD
DS DD
DS HD
etc....

SS is easy - look at the heads .. SS drives have only a "pressure pad" on top (no wires)
DS has another head (with wires)

For other's I recommend my own ImageDisk (Get it at "Daves Old Computers") it has a
test/analyze function where you can do a lot of tests, including step to any track.

360k DD drives have 40 tracks, home head should take it to near the outer edge of
the visible media, stepping to 40 should take it to near the inner edge. (and yes, I know
that 40 is 1-track over the official 0-39, but most drives can go to that extra
track, and worse case you'll hear it bump the stop once)

1.2M HD d rives have 80-tracks - home will still go near the outer edge,
stepping to 40 will only go near the middle.

Those are the common 5.25" PC drives .. there are others, I have a 5.25" DD drive with
80 tracks (720k) I don't believe these were ever officially used on the PC.

You can also "Test RPM" ... DD drives rotate at 300rpm, HD drives rotate at
360rpm.

3.5" drives all have 80 tracks ... 3.5" diskettes have a hole opposite the write protect
slider ... look for the optical sensor that "looks through" that hole, It will be present on
HD drives (1.44m) , absent on DD drives (720k).

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

jecepede wrote on 2025-02-08, 19:46:

I got a whole bunch of 5 1/4 "floppies (about 40) and I am searching for an easy way to identify what kind of 5 1/4" floppy it is

True SS flopies are rare. Most are DS, sold as SS. With true SS floppy you won't be able to format it on a PC at all.

DD/QD vs HD can be usually told apart by the presence of the anti-slip ring in the middle. DD/QD floppies have the ring, HD do not. There are a few exceptions (HDs with ring) but that's quite rare.
One other method is looking at the media with strong light source behind it. On DD/QD the density and thickness of the magnetic layer should pretty much block all the light from going through. HD floppies will pass some light, a bit like very strong sunglasses.

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-02-09, 21:42:

SS is easy - look at the heads .. SS drives have only a "pressure pad" on top (no wires)
DS has another head (with wires)
...

My apologies ... obviously didn't read well enough.. I thought you were asking about drives.
(doesn'tt everyone have 40+ floppy drives in their basement?)

Yes, 5.25" media generally has the anti-slip ring for DD and not for HD - but there are exceptions.
Best way to know for sure it to format/verify. IMD will let you do one track (which is all you need
and much faster than the whole disk).

(You'll need to do this in an HD drive, and if using FORMAT --- /4 for DD media.. you don't need to wait
for the whole disk to format, after a few tracks without error you can stop it).

For 3.5" media, look for the hole opposite (side from) the write-protect slider. In HD media it will be
there, on DD not.

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Agree ! Most SS floppies sold after late 1980's were actually DS labeled as SS. Yes true SS are rare, I do have one: is Enchanter 1983 Infocom for DOS on a 180k SS formatted floppy disk.
You can correctly format them under DOS if using a 360k drive and proper older DOS version, v5.0 was last to support Format /1 for force single side iirc....

Aloha !

Deunan wrote on 2025-02-09, 22:57:

True SS flopies are rare. Most are DS, sold as SS. With true SS floppy you won't be able to format it on a PC at all.

Well, I can use these for my Apple II or Commodore 64.

I ended up making a batch script that starts formatting 1.2Mb, doing a scandisk and if it fails, the script moves om to 360K and so on.
Still need to press some keys now and then but it beats typing everything again and again...

Cheeeeeeeeeers

Jecepede

Yes - grip ring for DD floppy, extra hole in the casing for HD stiffy.

The amount of light shining through the media is a neat trick also, which I did not recognize before.

What I am more curious about is how well are your floppies holding up?

Some of mine are NS/ND type - a see-through ring at track 0 where no media is left makes it a total dud.

st31276a wrote on 2025-02-13, 07:29:

What I am more curious about is how well are your floppies holding up?
Some of mine are NS/ND type - a see-through ring at track 0 where no media is left makes it a total dud.

Kinda proof that they definitely "don't make them like they used to"!

Last year I dug out and fired up my Altair - a very early S-100 system from 1975.
A few years after it was new (still late 70s - I think 1978) it got "disk drives".
A couple Sugart SA-400s, I think the first 5.25" drive - full-height, single-sided.

The diskettes were kinda unique by today's standards, SS/SD and HARD-SECTORED,
at 10 sectors/track this means there were 11 "index holes" which passed under
the little sensor window... 10 evenly spaced, and one extra one to mark where the
tracks started (much more common SS disks have only 1 index hole)

Anyway, I decided to full-read all the disks to see how they had survived, I had maybe
50+ diskettes, and after 40+ years, only a single one has read errors.

And it was marked as having a bad sector! - one I had dropped something on back in the
day, and had a physical mark on the media!

.. and keep in mind that there were the only storage on the machine, so they saw
a LOT of use (well... at one time I built a controller to put a 9-track tape drive onto
the system - but it was mainly used for archive/long-term storage, not as daily
running media)

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-02-13, 12:12:

Anyway, I decided to full-read all the disks to see how they had survived, I had maybe 50+ diskettes, and after 40+ years, only […]
Show full quote

Anyway, I decided to full-read all the disks to see how they had survived, I had maybe
50+ diskettes, and after 40+ years, only a single one has read errors.

And it was marked as having a bad sector! - one I had dropped something on back in the
day, and had a physical mark on the media!

^-- That, is *seriously* impressive.