Living wrote on 2025-02-14, 14:15:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Microsoft_IntelliEye_mouse_2.jpg/960px-Microsoft_IntelliEye_mouse_2.jp […]
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DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 12:19:

Okay, I do already have a vintage mouse. A PS/2 Microsoft Intellimouse that came with the build I bought. However, I was wondering if anyone knows of any (somewhat) better 90s mice they can recommend, if any? I totally get that options were more limited back in the 90s, and ball mice were never particularly great in the sense that you would always have to frequently clean them. I was just wondering if there were any decent options that totally went under my radar from back then? The ones we had were pretty generic. Very 'office' standard. Considering the number of tools and utilities I've downloaded recently, which have allowed for various tweaking and life improvements in Windows and DOS, I just figured it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that there's something out there regarding hardware/peripherals etc. 😀 It's true I could just connect a random USB mouse, but I'd still like something that's period accurate, too. Something that would be better suited for FPSs and point n' click adventures. Again, I get that accuracy, sensitivity, and clunkiness were how folk had to play FPSs back then with PS/2 mice.

And yes, I've been increasing the sensitivity options in games, as panning/looking is pretty slow at default settings. I've also been using that PS/2 Rate, which has helped, too. So any additional tool or period accurate gaming mice would be super welcome. 😀

Thanks

2nd optical mouse to hit the mass market after the explorer in 1999. USB with PS2 converter

There is no better choice than this when it comes to mouse up until 2000. I found mine in the trash in late 2000 (broken usb cord). Fixed and been using for the past 25 years (10 as my primary mouse)

Yeah, you were certainly very lucky to find that. One that's beige anyway. The only ones I've seen on eBay so far are 1.1a and black.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-02-14, 13:42:

Modern-ish optical PS2 mice will work fine on retro rigs, assuming they have a PS2 port of course. I use a generic A4Tech optical mouse for my DOS systems. It works fine with the standard Microsoft mouse driver.

I hated ball mice back in the day, and despise them ever more now. No reason to use those things if you have a working PS2 port. They are imprecise, and a chore to clean.

Do you have pics of your mouse model?

I've always been a fan of Microsoft mice - I still have one of their original "ball" mice with a serial only connection,
but I mostly have the optical "intellimouse" with PS2 connection but supports serial with a little
PS2->DB9 adapter.

I also have a few Microsoft wireless mice - the later ones with the tiny "dongal" that stores inside are very good,
I have a couple different versions of their earlier ones with a much bigger dongal that stores on the outside
bottom of the mouse ... also pretty good, but both of these developed problems with the internal
button switches which made for multiple "presses" with one click. Fortunately not hard to replace with
better units.

I do have a couple of the Logitech "unifying" mice that work with one dongal along with a keyboard,
they seem good as well.

I had a Rat7 I really liked for gaming ... so much so that I bought a few similar Rat5s when I found them
really cheap - the Rat7 eventually died but the Rat5s are still going strong (I don't understand - I've known
a few people who've had gaming mice die ... almost like they get used more violently than someone doing
"office" work - weird!)

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:05:

Do you have pics of your mouse model?

It's this one.

Just a heads up, I bought it a few years back from a local retailer, so I'm not sure if that particular model is still available today.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:23:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:05:

Do you have pics of your mouse model?

It's this one.

Just a heads up, I bought it a few years back from a local retailer, so I'm not sure if that particular model is still available today.

Thanks. Ah, it looks fairly modern though. ^^;

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:27:

Thanks. Ah, it looks fairly modern though. ^^;

They also had this model with a more retro look, and it comes in white as well.

Again, not sure if these are still being manufactured.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:30:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:27:

Thanks. Ah, it looks fairly modern though. ^^;

They also had this model with a more retro look, and it comes in white as well.

Again, not sure if these are still being manufactured.

Huh. Cool. If I can find one, I'd probably go for a white one.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 14:31:

Oh nice. I'll have to have a look for one of these. 😁

beware that is a mouse who works well up to 1280x1024 due to its low DPI. Thats the very reason i bought a Logitech VX Revolution in 2010 once i started using 1920x1200 in my Samsung T260N

Now the intellieye is in use in my main retro PC (K6-2+) with a Logitech M90 cord

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-02-14, 13:16:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 13:08:

Hmm, I see.

What about optical PS/2 mice? How do they fare?

Depends ..I have a PS2 one and it wont work at all without the special mouse pad it uses for tracking, its got a grid pattern on it so its nothing like modern optical mice that can work on any surface. With the grid mouse pad it works well enough but I wouldn't use it on a DOS system as the good old ball mouse works better there.

I will state that even with the right surface they still dont feel as responsive as modern optical mice but they also dont have the high polling rate modern ones do either so it takes a bit to get used to.

I have a ps/2 optical mouse from the late 2000s and it tracks on anything. Can also be set to 120Hz with the mouse rate tool without any issues. It's fantastic

Living wrote on 2025-02-14, 15:56:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 14:31:

Oh nice. I'll have to have a look for one of these. 😁

beware that is a mouse who works well up to 1280x1024 due to its low DPI. Thats the very reason i bought a Logitech VX Revolution in 2010 once i started using 1920x1200 in my Samsung T260N

Now the intellieye is in use in my main retro PC (K6-2+) with a Logitech M90 cord

Okay. I believe my monitor for my retro rig only goes up to something like 1280x1024, but I'd need to double check.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-02-14, 16:02:

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-02-14, 13:16:

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-14, 13:08:

Hmm, I see.

What about optical PS/2 mice? How do they fare?

Depends ..I have a PS2 one and it wont work at all without the special mouse pad it uses for tracking, its got a grid pattern on it so its nothing like modern optical mice that can work on any surface. With the grid mouse pad it works well enough but I wouldn't use it on a DOS system as the good old ball mouse works better there.

I will state that even with the right surface they still dont feel as responsive as modern optical mice but they also dont have the high polling rate modern ones do either so it takes a bit to get used to.

I have a ps/2 optical mouse from the late 2000s and it tracks on anything. Can also be set to 120Hz with the mouse rate tool without any issues. It's fantastic

The attachment 20250214_110253.jpg is no longer available

Yeah you have one of the later ones that has image processing letting it work on any surface the PS2 one I have is earlier than yours and doesn't work unless its got that grid pattern under it.

Managed to find a reasonably priced Microsoft Intellimouse Optical 1.1A USB/PS/2 mouse on eBay. It's a bit grubby, but hopefully a bit of cleanup will sort that out. It's also that vintage yellow-stained beige colour. :p

Since no one has mentioned it, another option is a trackball like a Logitech TrackMan Marble. (you can still get a similar model although they are wireless-only now)
It takes a lot of getting used to, but it can be less annoying than a ball mouse, and they (or an equivalent model) were available in serial.

jakethompson1 wrote on 2025-02-19, 22:33:

Since no one has mentioned it, another option is a trackball like a Logitech TrackMan Marble. (you can still get a similar model although they are wireless-only now)
It takes a lot of getting used to, but it can be less annoying than a ball mouse, and they (or an equivalent model) were available in serial.

Yeah, I remember we owned one back in the 90s. They're 'orrible bloody things. 🤣

Okay, I've received my new (old) mouse today and it's been configured by Windows. However, is the Intellipoint 2.2 driver the correct one for the job? It has configured it to work prior to setting it up, but if there's an official driver, I'd prefer to have that. There's only two Microsoft related drivers in the driver library here.

Also, I think someone briefly mentioned it here, but is there a way of getting an optical mouse working in DOS? Or is it just serial/PS/2 mice only? The label on it does say it's PS/2 compatible, but the typical DOS mouse driver no longer works.

Any suggestions regarding this?

I tried Cutemouse, but that's only for serial and PS/2 mice. I tried the USB drivers linked here - Re: FreeDOS and Windows 98 SE - Dual boot and USB support -and whilst that "works" by loading up UHCI in the autoexec.bat file, it doesn't work correctly. I can't move the camera in Doom 2 and when I click the left mouse button to fire, it keeps on firing. Also, in Simon 1, I was able to click and move to the right, but after that I couldn't do anything else.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-21, 17:09:

Also, I think someone briefly mentioned it here, but is there a way of getting an optical mouse working in DOS? Or is it just serial/PS/2 mice only? The label on it does say it's PS/2 compatible, but the typical DOS mouse driver no longer works.

Do you have the Microsoft "USB->PS2 adapter"?

This is a little green thing just big enough to plug the mouse USB in one side, and has a PS2
connector on the other which plugs into the PS2 mouse port on the system.

Microsoft "PS2 compatible" mice don't work plugged into a USB port of a system that
doesn't support USB... The microcontroller in the mouse detects if it's an actual USB
connection -or- plugged into PS2 with the adapter and generates the needed signalling
(USB or PS2) based on the connection type.

I'm pretty sure I've used such mice with the adapter within DOS ..

If you don't have the adapter, I can probably work out the wiring for it in case
you need to make one - I *think* it's passive (just connections, no electronics)
I've got a bunch of them, so I could take one and figure out "whats connected to
what". (or try googling "Microsoft USB to PS2 adapter" - most likely someone
has already done this).

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Ok, I dug out a Microsoft USB Optical mouse

On the bottom, it reads:
"Wired Mouse Optical 1.1A USB and PS/2 compatible"

I connected this using one of the little green USB->PS2 adapters
I mentioned earlier.

I don't normally use a mouse on this system, so I searched and found
and installed a mouse driver (I think It's Microsoft) - and...

The optical mouse works fine!
I tested with my own "MicroCad" drawing program, which I can tell you
for sure (since I wrote it) uses the mouse via standard mouse driver
interface calls.

So all should be good (as long as you have or can make the needed adapter).

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

Slightly related story - I have one (and only one) USB keyboard which also does PS2 via the
same adapter - it's not a Microsoft keyboard (in fact it's a little tiny thing I keep nearby for
those times I'm testing another system on my desk)

I was thinking of tossing it as it's small, and hence has a "less than perfect" key layout...
I was keeping a PS2 one on the shelf as well and figured I could easily just stack a USB
keyboard on top when I was storing them ... and I don't know why, but on some sort of
hunch - I tried it in a mouse USB->PS2 adapter and it worked! (but doesn't mention PS2
on it's labels or box).

So I thought this might "be a thing" and proceeded to test all of my other USB keyboards
... and none of the others worked in the adapter ...

So now I just keep this one small keyboard on the shelf beside my desk (it has an
adapter plugged into the end of the cable which I can easily take off when I need USB)

-- And sometimes I use it "quite long" - MouseUSB -> USB->PS2 -> PS2->5pinDin -> 5pinDinSystem

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-02-22, 01:02:

Do you have the Microsoft "USB->PS2 adapter"? […]
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DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-02-21, 17:09:

Also, I think someone briefly mentioned it here, but is there a way of getting an optical mouse working in DOS? Or is it just serial/PS/2 mice only? The label on it does say it's PS/2 compatible, but the typical DOS mouse driver no longer works.

Do you have the Microsoft "USB->PS2 adapter"?

This is a little green thing just big enough to plug the mouse USB in one side, and has a PS2
connector on the other which plugs into the PS2 mouse port on the system.

Microsoft "PS2 compatible" mice don't work plugged into a USB port of a system that
doesn't support USB... The microcontroller in the mouse detects if it's an actual USB
connection -or- plugged into PS2 with the adapter and generates the needed signalling
(USB or PS2) based on the connection type.

I'm pretty sure I've used such mice with the adapter within DOS ..

If you don't have the adapter, I can probably work out the wiring for it in case
you need to make one - I *think* it's passive (just connections, no electronics)
I've got a bunch of them, so I could take one and figure out "whats connected to
what". (or try googling "Microsoft USB to PS2 adapter" - most likely someone
has already done this).

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

I don’t, sadly. But I remember, many years ago, that we used to have one. I guess I can always buy one; they shouldn’t cost that much. 😀 Thanks for the suggestion.