Shponglefan wrote on 2025-02-02, 18:36:

I've used Startech CF adapters in dozens of configurations and never encountered a problem with extreme system slowness. CF-to-IDE adapters are basically just a pin-to-pin passthrough.

Same with Goteks. From the PC's perspective, it's just a floppy drive.

I suspect something else is going on.

There are some jumpers on the Startech adapters, no? How do you have them set?

(I know Dells of this era generally liked IDE drives on cable select... I haven't checked but I would presume the ODD at least is on CS, though that's on the other IDE controller)

VivienM wrote on 2025-02-02, 19:26:

There are some jumpers on the Startech adapters, no? How do you have them set?

Typically the only jumpers are going to be for Master/Slave setting and possibly power settings if it has a voltage regular (3.3V or 5V and external vs IDE power).

I always tend to use Master since I'm usually using the CF card as the main drive. For power, I always use external power and typically leave it at 5V if there is an option. Though I noticed the adapter I use on my test bench is set to 3.3V. From what I understand, the CF spec allows for 3.3V or 5V.

edited to add:

If you're using one of the red PCB / drive bay Star Tech adapters, the only user-configurable jumper is for setting Master/Slave. There are a couple jumpers labelled DMA and RST, but I have no idea what those are for and the manual doesn't mention them. They appear to be closed as a manufacturer default.

Those particular adapters lack voltage regulation so there is no jumper options for that.

Thinking this over, if you want to diagnose the CF card / adapter setup, I would do this:

1) Install DOS 6.22 (just a regular installation)
2) Install Phil's DOS benchmark pack and run some basic tests (Sys info, Speedsys, Doom, etc).
3) Try copying files to and from the system

Don't mess around with memory managers, fancy configurations or other operating systems. Just keep it simple and see if the basic CF card works.

If everything works fine, then you can probably rule out the CF card and adapter being at fault.

It's possible there could be a conflict with BIOS settings for IDE (e.g. UDMA or something). At which point you could also try disabling UDMA or forcing specific settings to see what works, if you run into problems.

So... trying something different, installing Win2000 on the original 8 gig SD card. So far... it hasn't failed... but it's also not done installing after about two hours. I know people don't recommend CF cards for NT OSes, is this.. within normal range?

I've installed Windows XP on a CF card before. It was definitely slower than something like an SSD, but I don't recall it taking over 2 hours to install. That seems like something is wrong.

If you're looking to install various Windows operating systems, you'd be better off with an HDD or SSD.

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-02-09, 15:36:

I've installed Windows XP on a CF card before. It was definitely slower than something like an SSD, but I don't recall it taking over 2 hours to install. That seems like something is wrong.

I'm inclined to agree... also worth noting, it is RAM-starved. 64 megs of RAM and Win2000 guzzles 75 megs on boot, so it'd be swapping to the CF card...

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-02-09, 15:36:

If you're looking to install various Windows operating systems, you'd be better off with an HDD or SSD.

Not really - I'm looking to have a working DOS machine! But instead I am going in circles trying to figure out some weirdness, e.g. why QEMM (or IIRC EMM386) will slow the machine to a crawl and why DOS memory management is completely a mess. Then I tried WinMe and that won't boot, I honestly was expecting Win2000 to fail too.

VivienM wrote on 2025-02-09, 18:49:

Not really - I'm looking to have a working DOS machine! But instead I am going in circles trying to figure out some weirdness, e.g. why QEMM (or IIRC EMM386) will slow the machine to a crawl and why DOS memory management is completely a mess. Then I tried WinMe and that won't boot, I honestly was expecting Win2000 to fail too.

If the intent is to use DOS, then I wouldn't mess around with Windows. That's just adding layers of complexity that is likely to make it more difficult to diagnose the real issue.

Your best bet is to stick to DOS versions and resolving this issue under DOS.

I would try thing like seeing what is being allocated in memory with tools like MSD (Microsoft Diagnostics), taking a look a BIOS options re: memory, trying different versions of DOS, booting from directly from a floppy (vs CF or HDD), swapping RAM (just to rule out hardware issues with RAM)...

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-02-09, 19:37:

If the intent is to use DOS, then I wouldn't mess around with Windows. That's just adding layers of complexity that is likely to […]
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VivienM wrote on 2025-02-09, 18:49:

Not really - I'm looking to have a working DOS machine! But instead I am going in circles trying to figure out some weirdness, e.g. why QEMM (or IIRC EMM386) will slow the machine to a crawl and why DOS memory management is completely a mess. Then I tried WinMe and that won't boot, I honestly was expecting Win2000 to fail too.

If the intent is to use DOS, then I wouldn't mess around with Windows. That's just adding layers of complexity that is likely to make it more difficult to diagnose the real issue.

Your best bet is to stick to DOS versions and resolving this issue under DOS.

I would try thing like seeing what is being allocated in memory with tools like MSD (Microsoft Diagnostics), taking a look a BIOS options re: memory, trying different versions of DOS, booting from directly from a floppy (vs CF or HDD), swapping RAM (just to rule out hardware issues with RAM)...

You're probably right. My only thinking was that if I get this thing as close to its original configuration as possible (I think this machine would have shipped with Win95 OSR2.5... which, of course, begs the question why I haven't tried that yet, eh?), then that might make it easier to identify any misbehaving hardware, etc. But given that's been identifying extra problems instead...

So... tried Win98 SE on a fresh CF card, it seemed to install happily, makes it to the end of the installation, and
'Windows protection error. You need to restart your computer. C:\WINDOWS\system\vmm32.vxd: Missing/unable to load."

I am increasingly convinced there is something wrong with this machine...