Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-25, 23:39:

Yes I have a multimeter but I don't know if I have something small enough to fit in the connector. Maybe with 2 needles, I will try with it. But there was already problem with CMOS because the computer gived sometimes an error message about CMOS battery when the old one was in place. So, this + corrosion maybe mean it's the time for a new one ?

About you question regardless the password, it was set in bios, maybe it's the last person who own this computer which did this, who knows, when I bought it, there was a hand written sticker with the password. But even with the right password I couldn't enter to bios because it seemed that I had to press keys before the prompt password was here and so it was not unlocked yet and didn't let me in... (yea, if it's that it's really dumb 🤣).

So it does seem that your battery is like the one you showed a link to with the little
connector? Exactly how is the connector corroded? This should essentially be two pins in the mainboard,
and they likely "self clean" when inserting/removing ... try plugging/unplugging a few times ...
but I rarely see any significant (visible) corrosion on connectors so far from the battery - perhaps you
have something different?

If the CMOS is truly dead, you should be seeing the CMOS error error message every time you have had the
system OFF for more than a few mins (unless is really marginal). If you are only seeing it after you have
disconnected/reconnected the battery, this is normal.

CMOS clearing should have removed the password (more likely) or set it back to some known default (less likely)
In either case, the one that's written is unlikely to be useful after battery failure. You wouldn't need one if the
password was cleared, and there wouldn't be any significant reason to write down the default as that should
have been provided in the docs.

Btw, a useful trick to measure voltage in such small connectors is with thin solid wires --- you can wrap them
fairly tightly around most multimeter probes and get a decent connection, they just insert the other ends into
the connectors.
(I actually made up some "press on" connectors that just nicely fit the probe ends, and have very thin
dressmakers pins soldered to them, extending forward - vert nice when messuring really tiny stuff - but you
won't need something like that here!)

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

For those without experience of these gen Toshiba machines, they have two internal batteries.

The first is a simple (one or two cell) BIOS / RTC backup battery. It's on a short lead and is a non-lithium design and leaks. Almost always the leakage wicks it's way along the lead (capillary action?) to the battery header in the motherboard.

The second battery is larger (6 cells iirc?) and is used to temporarily retain ram while the main laptop battery is swapped over (in most cases we don't use these laptops for their original business purposes anymore and hence the 'resume' functionality is no longer required) Again it is a standard, non lithium rechargeable type. Again it leaks and wicks along the lead to the battery header on the motherboard.

Unless those headers are cleaned thoroughly they will eventually progress to damaging the motherboard. Even if the leaking cells are removed.

Examples of what we are discussing:

Warning: Leaking BIOS/CMOS/Resume Batteries Damaging Laptops

Question about CMOS batteries on Toshiba Tecra 550CDT: 2.4V & 7.2V + Corrosion

Lot of Toshiba Satellite 4030/4070/4090 CDT or CDX dead

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-02-26, 01:13:

What you are showing is a separate 3-cell battery pack with flying leads which would just plug into a connector on the mainboard […]
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What you are showing is a separate 3-cell battery pack with flying leads which would just plug
into a connector on the mainboard. Assuming it's CR2032 equivalent cells (looks like it might be),
this would be 9v.

Can you describe exactly what the batteries you are trying to replace look like, how it connects and
what the corroded "clips" look like - maybe a pic?

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

It is exactly what I send in the link. Exactlythis 3 battery thing. I made some research for conclude it’s CMOS. There is no other things, no coins style battery. There was only this one and also a 6 pack battery, but according to internet it’s the 3 pack one.

Thermalwrong wrote on 2025-02-26, 01:35:

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 00:02:

After some research, finding this CMOS battery looks complicated. There is one here but it's out of stock https://parts-hq.com/shop/p000230840-ni-mh-ba … n-870477?page=9

Does flashing the bios can change default parameters ? If yes it's interesting... if not and if I can't find a new battery I will probably just put the old one in place and hope it will have enough power to save bios changed settings

Any original nimh RTC battery would have leaked by now and the 'refurbished' ones have probably leaked too. My solution is 2x 1n4148 diodes and a CR2032 coin cell - I figured out recently that with the Tecra 520 to 550 chassis laptops, the coin cell holder could be run all the way into the modem bay since most of mine don't have the modem. Then it only requires removing the primary hard drive cover to replace the battery and there are less space constraints than trying to put a coin cell holder in the space that the 2x nimh batteries sat in.

If you just need to save settings, keeping the main battery connected should keep the RTC / CMOS alive if it's able to charge. But I bet you that the long wait on boot is not going to be solved by changing the CMOS settings, the laptop really doesn't know what to do if it can't detect a primary hard drive.

This is interesting ! So if I good understand, I have to cut the green plastic, place the CR2032 in one of the 3 places and the 2 1n4148 and then it will be ok ?

About the thing that laptop doesn’t want to do if these is no hdd1 is probably right but there is the option to boot in hdd2 first in the bios so maybe this situation was considered ? Anyway, I have to try

About the 2 x 1n4148 I need also to cut the wire of the original 3 battery pack system (replaced with CR2032 inside) and solder it on the red wire ?

Sorry for my last question with some research I found I can use this https://accessoires-energie.com/products/supp … eBoCNWAQAvD_BwE

But I still would like a confirmation about the soldering just to be sure that the 2x1n4148 must be connected on the red wire.
Thank you 😊

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 09:13:

It is exactly what I send in the link. Exactlythis 3 battery thing. I made some research for conclude it’s CMOS. There is no other things, no coins style battery. There was only this one and also a 6 pack battery, but according to internet it’s the 3 pack one.

Reading megatron-uk above it all makes sense now.
How bad is the corrosion and the pin connector...

When I have to scrape "crap" off little things like that - I took a very small/fine pair of "cuticle"
scissors apart to make two very fine/stiff/sharp tools - afterward I often use a drop of "electronic
cleaning" solution in the end of a bit of wire insulation (with the wire removed) just big enough to
fit over the pin - and work it up and down a few times to try and get any residue...

Small compressor and fine "air gun" works well for clearing out the remains
of that (but it you use the right solution it will evaporate on it's own)

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-02-26, 07:59:

The second battery is larger (6 cells iirc?) and is used to temporarily retain ram while the main laptop battery is swapped over (in most cases we don't use these laptops for their original business purposes anymore and hence the 'resume' functionality is no longer required) Again it is a standard, non lithium rechargeable type. Again it leaks and wicks along the lead to the battery header on the motherboard.

Interesting to know.

Q: Is the 6-cell battery actually required if you don't want to pause/resume when changing the battery,
ie: I you are content to completely shutdown/reboot?

Just wondering if it would be OK for him to completely remove it (I have seen systems - mainly with
rechargeables - where the circuitry counted on the load of the battery to keep voltage from getting
two high which would sometimes cause failure if the battery is removed - if this is non-rechargeable
that shouldn't be an issue .. but are there other requirements for the battery voltage to be present)?

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

As far as I can tell, these models (at least the 4xx and 5xx series) work perfectly fine without the standby/resume battery pack.

They also work fine without the CMOS battery.. BUT they reset the BIOS settings to defaults if the main power is lost (i.e. you unplug the laptop and the main laptop battery is dead).

Unfortunately there seems to be some bios settings issues with the OP of this particular laptop, so I guess it will be a bit of a pain redoing those boot order changes each time. For me, the power-on defaults work fine, but I guess that may not be the case for everyone.

An alternative 3v cell would probably work fine as long as it was either located away from the motherboard (second bay?) or a lithium coin cell with diode protection to prevent charging was used.

Maz Hoot, big green battery block, as you read before not needed, disconnect it and throw to trash. Small battery, with 2 or 3 cells inside is rechargeable battery, so you can't replace it with simple 3V battery. You need similar rechargeable. Otherwise you must use diode.

I don't remember where are you from, battery like this, 3.6v NiMh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235466875898

I wondering how fast boot after you press Ctrl+Alt+Del to reboot machine with hot restart? If boot slow, same as before, that's mean battery replacement does not help, something wrong with bios.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-02-26, 12:44:

An alternative 3v cell would probably work fine as long as it was either located away from the motherboard (second bay?) or a lithium coin cell with diode protection to prevent charging was used.

There are things like LIR2032 - a rechargeable 3.6v coin cell ... but in this case I wouldn't trust
the circuitry to be suitable/safe to recharge a lithium ...

Another alternative I've used before ... supercaps! .. these will keep a CMOS
backup for days/weeks....

But you do have to be careful .. unlike a "normal" rechargeable battery, a cap will charge
up to the max voltage of the charging circuit.

- eg -
I still use TRS-80 Model-100s (nice screen/keyboard, instant on, usable text editor, battery
powered and RS-232/serial to easily transfer things to PC) when I want something I can move
around while taking notes/recording information - like taking inventory of my basement!

Their "main RAM" is 32k of CMOS - and there is a little 3-cell NiCD pack to maintain it with
the power off - I have one where that pack died and the machine failed because it leaked... after
cleaning up & repairing some tracks, I put in supercaps - but they were charged through a fairly
high resistor to the unswitched/unregulated side of main power and relied on the battery load
to keep below 5v ... I put it a couple of LEDs which draw enough power to keep it in range, and none
once it falls below where they conduct.
... It's been working well and keeps its memory for days with no other power...

Dave ::: https://dunfield.themindfactory.com ::: "Daves Old Computers"->Personal

MAZter wrote on 2025-02-26, 12:59:

Maz Hoot, big green battery block, as you read before not needed, disconnect it and throw to trash. Small battery, with 2 or 3 cells inside is rechargeable battery, so you can't replace it with simple 3V battery. You need similar rechargeable. Otherwise you must use diode.

I don't remember where are you from, battery like this, 3.6v NiMh: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235466875898

I wondering how fast boot after you press Ctrl+Alt+Del to reboot machine with hot restart? If boot slow, same as before, that's mean battery replacement does not help, something wrong with bios.

I am from france. This solution seems to be easyer (and maybe safer ?) than the soldering solution with 2x 1n4148 diodes and a CR2032 coin cell, even if I can solder without much problems, I do that a lot in circuit bending but I don’t have electronics knowledge at all.
So it’s mean that using a 3.6v battery with the right connector is ok even if it’s not exactly the same ? This one will probably not fit but maybe it will if I cut the mickey battery space with a cutting pliers, and if not I can maybe place it in the modem compartiment (have to remove it before) if I cut wires and solder other ones for make it longer. Or maybe it will fit in the 6 pack battery place (yea it will probably, I just looked the photo again). I added the photos of my batteries

But are you sure the connector will fit to the motherboard ? How to check this ?

About the big 6 green battery block I removed it in same time I removed the 3 pack one.

I will try reboot with Ctrl+Alt+Del and say. I reboot often by typing « reboot » in freedos (is it the same thing ?) and it’s still low, every time. I never had one single fast boot.

Sometimes it even boot 2 times, saying « memory check » then press F1 for system check, then it reboot

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 16:43:

So it’s mean that using a 3.6v battery with the right connector is ok even if it’s not exactly the same ?

If you want a suitable connector, you will definitely have to overpay 3-4 times, or wait a long time for delivery.

Imagine in 10 years and this battery will fail again, so is there any point in looking for a proper connector? Just cut the wires and connect them to the old connector.

Naturally, this will only work if the existing connector has not turned all green so much that it stops conducting current.

MAZter wrote on 2025-02-26, 17:06:

If you want a suitable connector, you will definitely have to overpay 3-4 times, or wait a long time for delivery. […]
Show full quote

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 16:43:

So it’s mean that using a 3.6v battery with the right connector is ok even if it’s not exactly the same ?

If you want a suitable connector, you will definitely have to overpay 3-4 times, or wait a long time for delivery.

Imagine in 10 years and this battery will fail again, so is there any point in looking for a proper connector? Just cut the wires and connect them to the old connector.

Naturally, this will only work if the existing connector has not turned all green so much that it stops conducting current.

the old connector is green with corrosion but I will try to clean it

I just turned on the computer, it opened the bios without my demand, and I saw strangly that this time, the boot order was memorized ! 😮 It was not the case last time, very weird...

So it mean that boot order change nothing to the problem (like you said, sorry for didn't believe it 😁), so finally I have to reflash the bios and don't try to buy an other CMOS... what twists and turns...this computer is crazy

And CTRL+ALT+DEL is a slow boot 🙁 I just tested...

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 17:28:

And CTRL+ALT+DEL is a slow boot 🙁 I just tested...

So if reflashing bios will not help and memory modules fine, probably laptop was used as donor in the past. So putting fresh cmos battery will not make it perfect laptop.

But you can still find a laptop with good motherboard and a broken screen on sale and assemble good one from two bad ones.

Second HDD tray itself can be sold for good money.

MAZter wrote on 2025-02-26, 17:57:

So if reflashing bios will not help and memory modules fine, probably laptop was used as donor in the past. So putting fresh cmo […]
Show full quote

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 17:28:

And CTRL+ALT+DEL is a slow boot 🙁 I just tested...

So if reflashing bios will not help and memory modules fine, probably laptop was used as donor in the past. So putting fresh cmos battery will not make it perfect laptop.

But you can still find a laptop with good motherboard and a broken screen on sale and assemble good one from two bad ones.

Second HDD tray itself can be sold for good money.

I tried the bios reflash. It worked, but it did nothing regarding the low boot... :'(

MAZter wrote on 2025-02-26, 17:57:

So if reflashing bios will not help and memory modules fine, probably laptop was used as donor in the past. So putting fresh cmo […]
Show full quote

Maz Hoot wrote on 2025-02-26, 17:28:

And CTRL+ALT+DEL is a slow boot 🙁 I just tested...

So if reflashing bios will not help and memory modules fine, probably laptop was used as donor in the past. So putting fresh cmos battery will not make it perfect laptop.

But you can still find a laptop with good motherboard and a broken screen on sale and assemble good one from two bad ones.

Second HDD tray itself can be sold for good money.

How do you extract the files from a flash boot file ? I flashed the bios but the version is 6.70 and there is a 6.80 version. Just in case it will change something, having the last version can't hurt...

I am trying to extract the 1018d680.exe file by several ways but none of them works...

I get the file here : https://www.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php … driverid=151617

Ohh, did not now it was not latest.

I "Extracted" just running exe in real DOS on laptop. Setup automatically wrote files to the floppy and compared CRC.

Downloaded it here using VPN (you know, file not tested by me and this is not official Toshiba website, at least I trust it more than DriverGuide.com).

Image contain weird file called "EA DATA. SF", I can't read it by some reason: