UCyborg wrote on 2025-03-05, 20:27:

Is there a job that doesn't suck? Every day it's the same old song, over and over again. How do people stand this? And what good is all the money when you're feeling like a zombie all the time?

Work hard, get all the monniez and invest. If you do it with dedication, in 10 years you can sustain yourself without ever working again in your life. 😉
(Yes, to achieve that in just 10 years is extreme, but the point is still valid.)

GigAHerZ wrote on 2025-03-05, 20:30:

Work hard, get all the monniez and invest. If you do it with dedication, in 10 years you can sustain yourself without ever working again in your life. 😉
(Yes, to achieve that in just 10 years is extreme, but the point is still valid.)

i think a lot of it is in realising how little you need (both in terms of material things and in terms of spending) and then living along those lines

However most people are 'socialised' in the context of consumerism - latest iphone, best car, coolest holiday, most desirable location and so on, its not their fault and its not easy to run against that

Further when married and raising children it is increasingly difficult not to live like a typical 'consumer', it would have to be an explicit agreement up front as a couple and even then the children will be exposed to and interested in all the consumer stuff, it's a cultural bombardment that short circuits straight past rational thinking

another reason ppl tend to carry on in work is not knowing what the future holds, having a job means having an income stream. things like savings and investments can be chewed up by bad luck, economic decline, inflation and at the same time outgoings can suddenly jump due to ill health, dependents and so on

One middling approach that i think would work for many is trying to get work that at least in part is enjoyable/interesting and to then live like your salary is lower than it actually is so as to maintain a buffer (easier said than done when on a lower salary)

(or, to create a social media presence showing off lots of (rented) villas and (hired) cars and try to appear successful but be willing to share the secrets for only $500 or $2500 for the full fast track package 😀 )

UCyborg wrote on 2025-03-05, 20:27:

Is there a job that doesn't suck? Every day it's the same old song, over and over again. How do people stand this? And what good is all the money when you're feeling like a zombie all the time?

Sure there is! I think everyone knows at least 1 person, typically fairly high in the company who obviously lives for their job.
I'm happy for that person, and no doubt they will be more successful but I'm glad it's not me.

Personally, I think it's much healthier to have outside interests like hobbies, family, sport, anything but at least something else apart from work.
But at the same time hopefully work isn't terrible, I don't mind my job, it gives a certain level of satisfaction, but I definitely look forward to the weekends and you bet I'd retire if I could!
Put it this way, I much prefer going to work then I ever did going to school.

AI is going to destroy this profession. Get out while you still can. Find something that can't be automated.

CS is the first profession ever to make itself obsolete. Well done guys.

Been fairly clear for several years that software is at best a job, not a career.

gaffa2002 wrote on 2025-02-20, 15:16:

Here in Brasil salaries for tech jobs are pretty low compared to some countries, my workaround for that was finding a remote job in outsourcing tech companies which do not have any offices here. The payment is in US dollars and in some cases can be almost 3x more than what I would get in a local job for the same position and same experience level, but still, those wages are still quite lower than what they pay to locals in such countries.

I feel that construction workers here are even more underpaid than tech people, initial salaries may be similar, but with tech your wages increase faster throughout you career. And then there are health concerns, I really don't know what is worse after many years: Staying in a chair more than 8 hours a day or strain your body daily with heavy construction work.

In short, people are getting paid far less than what they deserve 🙁

Brazil was a rising industrial power until China showed up in the country. China dumping steel in the country hurt the local industry which is turning the country into resource exporting and finished goods importing hurting tech jobs. Even when there are tech jobs like in auto manufacturing China just brings Chinese tech people in and pays them very badly.

Errius wrote on 2025-03-07, 02:10:

AI is going to destroy this profession. Get out while you still can. Find something that can't be automated.

CS is the first profession ever to make itself obsolete. Well done guys.

Software dev has been a gradual move away from programming "on the bare metal" for ages, increasingly toward abstraction and 'natural language' and gui interfaces.

generative ai is like a library, instead of include<magiclibrary> dosomething(); we now copy a code block ai suggested

that does reduce the number of devs needed but not, in itself, dramatically

however if ai can generate functioning software or results (eg analytics) without a human developer involved then it will vastly reduce the number of programmers needed

generated software isn't necessarily a script that gets run, it can just be like an interface generated on the fly as in https://oasis-ai.org/

a bit like ai generated video or pictures, there is no planning or setting out paintbrushes or camera angles - there is just the generation of the end result, looking a bit like whatever the ai learned on without the intermediate stages associated with software development

You can predict from the 80/20 rule that most current developers are unnecessary if AI automates the most repetitive and mundane aspects of software building.

It's going to become like art after photography. Photography devastated the art profession. Before photography, painting was a trade like any other, which provided a dependable living to large numbers of ordinary people, 99% of whom have been forgotten by history.

After photography, the only people who became artists were passionate eccentrics willing to live in poverty for years (or forever) just so they could practice their vocation. Or else rich kids who didn't have to worry about earning a living. Computer Science is going to end up the same.

UCyborg wrote on 2025-03-05, 20:27:

Is there a job that doesn't suck? Every day it's the same old song, over and over again. How do people stand this? And what good is all the money when you're feeling like a zombie all the time?

Welcome to the wonderful world of late capitalism my friend 😁

In my country, the pay range differs depending on who employs you, and your pay can differ largely for a same role in different companies.

For a starter, and for the more common tech employers it could range between Rs 100-800K per year. Companies are hence stereotypically classified by nicknames based on their starter payroll.

If you manage to get just above the average, you can generally expect working in a company paying Rs 1 Million and going as high as 10 Million per year.

If you get employed by the government, the pay is generally lower (like a max of Rs 300K per year) but you get other benefits, easier loans, leaves, etc.

Unknown_K wrote on 2025-03-07, 05:07:

Brazil was a rising industrial power until China showed up in the country. China dumping steel in the country hurt the local industry which is turning the country into resource exporting and finished goods importing hurting tech jobs. Even when there are tech jobs like in auto manufacturing China just brings Chinese tech people in and pays them very badly.

Thats a huge oversimplification of Brazil's industry situation... China is just playing by the rules of capitalism and it would be naive to believe that any country from the West would do differently given the same circumstances.

The pay here can vary quite a bit between companies, but in general it's good and above the average salary of other jobs. However the work itself sucks more with each passing year.

After working for more than 20 years as a software developer, I am now experiencing first hand the insanity of infinite growth expectations and moving the focus away from the customer and towards the shareholders.

The company I work for went public a few years ago, and while back then we put great focus on the relationship with our clients, things have been steadily deteriorating to the point that each year our margin goals are higher when we have clearly reached a limit of how much we can realistically get from some clients. An executive was recently assigned to handle this situation and along with lots of micromanagement he told us this during a presentation where we were trying to explain how we could improve certain aspects of the work with one of our customers:

"I don't give a shit about the customer, revenue and margin are the two words everyone has to live for, anyone that focuses on the client or anything else other than those two things will be considered a detractor."

So there you go, I think this line of thinking illustrates the mindset of most large companies today, I experienced this as an employee but I am more worried about what it means for customers/consumers. Unfortunately this is enabled by people that become "fans" of large corporations, and keep buying their products/services without any critical thinking, they are a large part of what enables this kind of attitude from companies and their executives.

For the first time in my life I'm thinking about quitting and taking a break from all this crap, luckily I have savings that can carry me for quite some time. But I don't see the situation improving anytime soon with software development.

TheMobRules wrote on 2025-03-08, 20:22:

The pay here can vary quite a bit between companies, but in general it's good and above the average salary of other jobs. Howeve […]
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The pay here can vary quite a bit between companies, but in general it's good and above the average salary of other jobs. However the work itself sucks more with each passing year.

After working for more than 20 years as a software developer, I am now experiencing first hand the insanity of infinite growth expectations and moving the focus away from the customer and towards the shareholders.

The company I work for went public a few years ago, and while back then we put great focus on the relationship with our clients, things have been steadily deteriorating to the point that each year our margin goals are higher when we have clearly reached a limit of how much we can realistically get from some clients. An executive was recently assigned to handle this situation and along with lots of micromanagement he told us this during a presentation where we were trying to explain how we could improve certain aspects of the work with one of our customers:

"I don't give a shit about the customer, revenue and margin are the two words everyone has to live for, anyone that focuses on the client or anything else other than those two things will be considered a detractor."

So there you go, I think this line of thinking illustrates the mindset of most large companies today, I experienced this as an employee but I am more worried about what it means for customers/consumers. Unfortunately this is enabled by people that become "fans" of large corporations, and keep buying their products/services without any critical thinking, they are a large part of what enables this kind of attitude from companies and their executives.

For the first time in my life I'm thinking about quitting and taking a break from all this crap, luckily I have savings that can carry me for quite some time. But I don't see the situation improving anytime soon with software development.

sounds like going public has resulted in some pressure to "get numbers" either from investors or to look good in order to appeal to or get more out of some prospective buyer. It happens to some companies (not all though)

if you can take a break great, but maybe just a change of job would do the same - "a change is as good as a rest"

As for the general buying public, they are just buying as a response to a mix of actual wants, adverts, comparison with others, status anxiety and other varying normal inner drives having been hijacked by marketing and consumer society etc. its not really their fault, they're not going to evaluate the ultimate owners' practices relating to companies they buy from

it's like when you see something unpopular at the present, and in comments everyone is saying "boycott them" "we're not buying from them anymore", but in practice its usually just a small temporary dent unless there really is a near universal revulsion at the company, few people go that deeply into it

I'm not a spending type (usually), no partner or children either. I tend to keep electronics for years and don't really go anywhere. Still, savings are slow to accumulate and yeah, you don't really know when you'll need to spend a bigger sum for whatever reason.

Everything just gets old after a while. Not sure this clown world will even be livable in the near future.