I thought it would not be confusing about the pcmidi addon - I have changed the site text to make it more clear:

PCMIDI addon downloads

Please visit the PCMIDI Website for downloads and info as the PCMIDI addon shares the same chipset/firmware with the standalone ISA PCMIDI card.

Any patches/drivers/info also applies to the addon - with the exception of the form factor and hardware configuration jumpers which are explained in the diagram below:

I hope this clear things up better

ES690 was left out of the xtreme for 2 reasons:
- we do not have many of these chips and sourcing more is tricky
- and most important it simply did not fit on the card if we want to keep it as long as the isa slot (and I think it is a good idea to not make it longer)

on the xtreme front the output changes from the black card have already been carried over and also managed to squeeze one more thing : 2 extra dram places on the backside of the pcb giving the end user the option to solder another 4MB of ram and thus making a 8MB interwave setup. This might not sound much of an addition but believe me when I say that the pcb is so packed that even adding a single trace is now a huge undertaking or even impossible - unless the card gets bigger.

U5 on the black card is a spot to use ES692 instead of ES690 - just thinking ahead and made it working with either option installed

Thank you for giving us pads for future upgrades. That's very considerate for us enthusiasts who like to upgrade things.

I had fit issues with the Orpheus II in my mATX case, so a smaller PCB with soldered memory is a very welcome change.

Submitted my pre-order. Exciting times.

Dumb question regarding the MK1869 XTREME:

Is it possible to use SB for SFX and GUS for music at the same time as I would have 2 sound cards in the system?

That's OK: I can live without the ES690 since it's wavetable, I know of no games tuned specifically for it, and there are numerous alternatives (including GUS patches via the onboard InterWave).

crusher wrote on 2025-03-06, 14:15:

Dumb question regarding the MK1869 XTREME:

Is it possible to use SB for SFX and GUS for music at the same time as I would have 2 sound cards in the system?

yes this is possible, eg play doom with GUS music via the interwave chip and SB sfx via the ESS chip at the same time like you have 2 separate isa cards

crusher wrote on 2025-03-06, 14:15:

Dumb question regarding the MK1869 XTREME:

Is it possible to use SB for SFX and GUS for music at the same time as I would have 2 sound cards in the system?

No need to be hard on yourself. This is an updated GUS Extreme; for varied causes the entire GUS line was more-or-less made with Sound Blaster concurrence in mind. There is some prerequisite setup, however numerous games (Doom, Duke3D, pretty much anything else with native GUS support; see http://www.gravisultrasound.com/files/documen … ation/GLIST.TXT) allow selection of one or the other in their setup menus. Barring resource conflicts with other devices, this is functionally equivalent to having both cards.

You can test how this functions in any games or programs under DOSBox's existing GUS emulation. Don't neglect README and technical guides in case there is a specific procedure for GUS support. For GUS music in particular there must be native support for the onboard patches to be functional since GUS is not considered a General MIDI device, though it has a compatibility function for emulating MT-32.

BaronSFel001 wrote on 2025-03-06, 17:02:

For GUS music in particular there must be native support for the onboard patches to be functional since GUS is not considered a General MIDI device, though it has a compatibility function for emulating MT-32.

It is important to keep in mind that there are some fundamental differences between this design and the original Extreme. In particular, this one uses the InterWave IC, rather than the GF1 and its companion chips. Even though GF1-based boards did have software-enabled General MIDI compatibility, in the same way as they offered (limited) MT-32 emulation, the InterWave's on-board ROM-based instrument bank and IWSBOS provide more solid compatibility, though with somewhat compromised playback quality compared to native InterWave support. By default, the EEPROM will have this functionality disabled in Windows, but there should be ways of getting it working in pure DOS, if one were so inclined (and sufficiently careful about resource allocation).

However, there is no need to settle for TSR-based support with this design, as it offers a few different ways of adding fully-GM-compatible hardware for those purposes. For the purists, the upcoming PCMIDI add-on will be a desirable companion that you just couldn't get with the original board, unless you wanted to sacrifice multiple slots.

Granted, though I'm guessing Crusher's interest is nostalgia for the original GUS patches. For MIDI music in general everyone who's done their homework knows GUS, regardless of form, is entry-level at best. Not that it is bad depending on how a game uses it, but the demand for GUS capability lies chiefly in how its 16-bit digital sound mixing was exclusively supported in certain games and programs (of which IW is more technically capable than GF1 plus, according to posts I've read, can be tricked into answering Windows Sound System calls).

I can vouch for GUS support being particularly good in games which support it for 16-bit sound mixing. It's a great companion to the ESS chip, which only supports 8-bit mixing with Sound Blaster Pro compatibility.

keropi wrote on 2025-03-06, 16:56:

crusher wrote on 2025-03-06, 14:15:

Dumb question regarding the MK1869 XTREME:

Is it possible to use SB for SFX and GUS for music at the same time as I would have 2 sound cards in the system?

yes this is possible, eg play doom with GUS music via the interwave chip and SB sfx via the ESS chip at the same time like you have 2 separate isa cards

Thanks keropi!
That would be exactly my use case.
ATM I'm having GUS PnP clone + MK8330 in my system.
So the MK1869 XTREME is perfect for me, just having 1 physical card in the system.

crusher wrote on 2025-03-07, 08:52:

ATM I'm having GUS PnP clone + MK8330 in my system.
So the MK1869 XTREME is perfect for me, just having 1 physical card in the system.

You may have the same GUS PnP clone I do. I wonder how we are going to get our money's worth back once the MK1869 replaces them.

Your standalone GUS is still useful for pairing with other primary sound cards. There's nothing wrong with that.

Right, but the MK1869 XTREME renders it redundant in that department. Still, I will hold onto it until certain I can get it replaced because there will be limited quantities.

BaronSFel001 wrote on 2025-03-06, 22:06:

For MIDI music in general everyone who's done their homework knows GUS, regardless of form, is entry-level at best.

I don't agree. Even the original GUS instrument set could produce quite pleasant results, depending on how it was used. Furthermore, I will point out that, in 1995, when the InterWave was new, many people didn't have a sound card at all, much less a sound card plus a quality Roland-like module (or several!). Without insulting anyone's sound card of choice, the instrument sets included with the GUS PnP (especially the 4MiB RAM-based set) were exceptionally well-balanced, compared to many of the cost-competitive designs of the time, some of which were unapologetically, shamefully bad.

Not disagreeing on a matter that is so subjective and situational, but I hope you didn't miss my disclaimer that I never meant to say that makes it bad (depending on the game). Rich Heimlich considered the GUS patch set no better than that of AWE32; even AWE64's default soundfont, while beautiful in its way, is still entry-level. Where there can be room for contention is the suggestion that people were lacking for sound cards in 1995: most may have had no better than FM synthesis (of which pretty much anything wavetable would be a significant improvement), but I should think by that point Sound Blaster and/or AdLib support had been standard for more than long enough to be accessible to the layman in one form or another [particularly those wishing to play any contemporary games].

Hearing samples of the ES690's default ROM set, it actually sounds pretty good for a 1MB integrated solution. Plus the wavetable is present on the MPU-401 UART, so no special TSRs or activation tools are needed. The MK1869 is an attractive package, throw in the PC-MIDI add-in and you get intelligent MPU support for the wavetable too!

I wonder how it compares to Ensoniq Soundscape. Now THAT is something I wish had been given a better chance, but it arrived too late to distinguish itself for DOS and never really got to take off in Windows either once DirectX and 3D sound set new standards. That its earliest generation is considered highest quality but is also the most difficult to attain doesn't help.

I put in a preorder for the normal MK1869. Is it still possible to change that to the Extreme variant later?

CHA0SHACKER wrote on 2025-03-09, 12:04:

I put in a preorder for the normal MK1869. Is it still possible to change that to the Extreme variant later?

send me a pm to remove you from the queue and when the xtreme is available fill that form