VOGONS


First post, by Maz Hoot

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Hello,

In impulse tracker, I have "insufficient memory" message when I'm trying to play a sample. It does that not with all samples but for many sample which are not long and come from a IT samples soundbank so I think it's supposed to work.
On top right of IT I see this :
"FreeMem 10 k" (it varies from 9 to 20 etc when a sample work
"FreeEMS 0 k"

I'm on Freedos, I read somewhere that IT want :
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE RAM

But on freedos it's only :
DEVICE=C:\FDOS\HIMEMX.EXE

I understood that himemx replace him and emm386 on freedos. So how make IT working on freedos ?

My music (chiptune, post-punk, world, industrial) : https://mazhootmusic.bandcamp.com

Reply 1 of 6, by megatron-uk

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I think the lack of an EMS manager is the problem; HIMEMX is only an XMS manager, not EMS.

You'll want EMM386 or JEMM386 to provide EMS, after loading HIMEMX.

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Reply 2 of 6, by Maz Hoot

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I tried first with JEMM386 because it seems to be more freedos related. But the sound was less loud and a little more noisy (more hum), it's strange that it changed something to the sound but so I tried with EMM386 and the boot crashed 🙁

My music (chiptune, post-punk, world, industrial) : https://mazhootmusic.bandcamp.com

Reply 3 of 6, by Jo22

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.. and that's one of these reasons why I never got warm with FreeDOS.
The kernal and FreeCom never troubled me, but the nasty little utilities that came with it.
Instead of one proper memory manager or two, there are a couple of small ones that do little except being small and compete with each others.
That's why FreeDOS, as a solution, offers an annoying boot menu with a handful of memory configurations on start.
Also, the Gemmis interface for Windows 3.1 isn't being supported, for example. Because the author of the memory manager in question doesn't like Windows or something.

But I'm getting OT slightly. What comes to mind is EMM286, a freeware utility.
It's a slow LIMulator, but runs in Real-Mode. It can be loaded high, if there's enough space in UMA.
Using UMBPCI provides some UMBs without needing V86.
Not sure if EMM286 is helpful here, but it's not a commercial program, so it suits FreeDOS.

Another alternative would be to use an 8-Bit EMS card, which has a memory manager that works in both Real-Mode and V86.
The Lo-Tech 2MB EMS card is popular, for example.
It's slow, but maybe quick enough. I can use it for a MOD player on my 4,77 MHz XT to play larger modules (MOD Master XT).
For playing MODs especially, an unofficial 4 MB version would be more useful maybe.
But these are just some thoughts. To run everything with free software.

(If you have an AWE 32/64 or SB32 sound card, the wavetable RAM can be used to upload samples, so mixing happens on the card. Maybe then EMS isn'tso much needed.)

From a purely practical point of view, I would recommended commercial memory managers from the past.
QEMM 7.5 and up, 386Max, Himem.sys/EMM386 from MS-DOS 6 or 7, memory managers from Caldera DOS, Novell DOS, DR DOS.
Helix Multimedia Cloaking which has no EMS but DPMI and small drivers,
and can be combined with other managers.

Or Above Disc, an EMS manager that uses V86, XMS and a swap file.
Memory managers from PTS DOS or Paragon DOS are small like FreeDOS ones, but equally unreliable I'm afraid.
Nifty things like exploiting LOADALL (on 286) aren’t being used, I think.

Edit: I forgot about EMS Magic. Used to be commercial but is now Freeware.
It's like an improved version of EMM286. It was meant for NTVDM on Vista, to fix broken EMS support.
On bright side, though, it went through quality testing. Unlike that freaky stuff that's bundled with FreeDOS.

https://www.emsmagic.com/

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 4 of 6, by Maz Hoot

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Jo22 wrote on 2025-03-09, 17:22:
.. and that's one of these reasons why I never got warm with FreeDOS. The kernal and FreeCom never troubled me, but the nasty li […]
Show full quote

.. and that's one of these reasons why I never got warm with FreeDOS.
The kernal and FreeCom never troubled me, but the nasty little utilities that came with it.
Instead of one proper memory manager or two, there are a couple of small ones that do little except being small and compete with each others.
That's why FreeDOS, as a solution, offers an annoying boot menu with a handful of memory configurations on start.
Also, the Gemmis interface for Windows 3.1 isn't being supported, for example. Because the author of the memory manager in question doesn't like Windows or something.

But I'm getting OT slightly. What comes to mind is EMM286, a freeware utility.
It's a slow LIMulator, but runs in Real-Mode. It can be loaded high, if there's enough space in UMA.
Using UMBPCI provides some UMBs without needing V86.
Not sure if EMM286 is helpful here, but it's not a commercial program, so it suits FreeDOS.

Another alternative would be to use an 8-Bit EMS card, which has a memory manager that works in both Real-Mode and V86.
The Lo-Tech 2MB EMS card is popular, for example.
It's slow, but maybe quick enough. I can use it for a MOD player on my 4,77 MHz XT to play larger modules (MOD Master XT).
For playing MODs especially, an unofficial 4 MB version would be more useful maybe.
But these are just some thoughts. To run everything with free software.

(If you have an AWE 32/64 or SB32 sound card, the wavetable RAM can be used to upload samples, so mixing happens on the card. Maybe then EMS isn'tso much needed.)

From a purely practical point of view, I would recommended commercial memory managers from the past.
QEMM 7.5 and up, 386Max, Himem.sys/EMM386 from MS-DOS 6 or 7, memory managers from Caldera DOS, Novell DOS, DR DOS.
Helix Multimedia Cloaking which has no EMS but DPMI and small drivers,
and can be combined with other managers.

Or Above Disc, an EMS manager that uses V86, XMS and a swap file.
Memory managers from PTS DOS or Paragon DOS are small like FreeDOS ones, but equally unreliable I'm afraid.
Nifty things like exploiting LOADALL (on 286) aren’t being used, I think.

Edit: I forgot about EMS Magic. Used to be commercial but is now Freeware.
It's like an improved version of EMM286. It was meant for NTVDM on Vista, to fix broken EMS support.
On bright side, though, it went through quality testing. Unlike that freaky stuff that's bundled with FreeDOS.

https://www.emsmagic.com/

With emsmagic, it seems to be ok. But when I closed IT, opened AT2, closed AT2 and opened IT, the sound was crushed in IT, samples were very short, close to all samples was wrong. I tried without emsmagic and then, switching between AT2 and IT seems to be ok and I can play my projet in IT even if freeEMS is 0 k, but I can't add new sounds on my projet (insufficient memory message).

It is annoying because I would like to switch between AT2 and IT in live (yea I like having a dangerous life 😁 ). I can execute manually emsmagic each time I want to add new samples to my project but it's not very convenient 🙁

My music (chiptune, post-punk, world, industrial) : https://mazhootmusic.bandcamp.com

Reply 5 of 6, by keenmaster486

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Change to JEMMEX only, no HIMEMX and try again.

In terms of noisy sound, well, check your sound card settings. Your memory manager is not going to change the sound.

World's foremost 486 enjoyer.

Reply 6 of 6, by Maz Hoot

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keenmaster486 wrote on 2025-03-09, 23:37:

Change to JEMMEX only, no HIMEMX and try again.

In terms of noisy sound, well, check your sound card settings. Your memory manager is not going to change the sound.

Thank you it works good now ! I replaced HIMEMX BY JEMMEX as you suggested and I removed EMSMAGIC and switching programs + sounds seems to be ok now 😀

My music (chiptune, post-punk, world, industrial) : https://mazhootmusic.bandcamp.com