Would a early 2011 17" Macbook Pro be retro enough ?

Got my hands on a fully working one, are there any .. uhh issues one should know about these beasts ?>

Like the Nvidia bump gate ones ?

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2025-03-12, 07:52:

Yes, at 60Hz it is more flickery than at higher refresh rates (a little worse than 60Hz on a CRT), but to at least have the option on such an expensive retro display would be nice.

Personally I find 60Hz on a CRT to be headache inducing and borderline unusable. So a similar experience on a LCD would be a non-starter for me.

The other issue is that for DOS at least, rendering at only 60Hz introduces judder via frame skipping for 70Hz resolutions. Added motion clarity in these instances just makes the judder more visible. This is where I find LCDs with higher persistence and visible motion blur actually mask the judder caused by frame skipping.

Really what we need is a higher refresh rate that can do both 70Hz native without frame skipping and a high enough refresh rate for BFI/BLS without introducing flicker. Unfortunately nothing exists that I am aware of in a traditional 4:3 or even 5:4 form factor.

I'm assuming this monitor is more suitable for some non-PC retro computing tasks but amongst all of retro stuff I tinker with, I can't really picture what it would be good for versus just using a cheap\free LCD and an appropriate external scaler, now that so many of those have been produced specifically for retro gaming\computing.

It is cool looking and the modular nature of it is neat... but... man, I just can't get over the physical limitations of the display and the form factor.

The modular nature of it does allow for the inclusion of different hardware scalers. The module with SCART, component video, S-Video and RF is a separate scaler built around a re-engineered GBS-Control. I haven't tested it yet, but from what I've read and seen on videos and discord, it does look more feature-friendly when it comes to scaling options.

So far the saving grace is that it at least does 4:3 aspect ratios correctly under the various DOS graphics modes I've tried. The panel is also nice and bright, and the colors are quite vivid. It feels like it's part-way there, but held up by the shitty implementation of the stock board with the VGA/composite/HDMI inputs. If they'd only thought to include a VGA input on the other scaler module, some of these issues I'm having might have been overcome. But it also gives me hope that it might be possible to rig another scaler up to bypass those issues.

I plan to do some further testing under Windows XP and DOSBox. I can use DOSBox to do all the scaling options and output a native 1280x1024. This will give me a better indication of what this monitor is theoretically capable of.

New findings:
Nice and dirty Compaq ProSignia, hope this will work after the cleaning and Dallas replacement
Unknown AT case, looks good and clean. Good home for the Socket 7 AT build

zuldan wrote on 2025-03-12, 10:10:

dominusprog wrote on 2025-03-12, 09:55:

Nice card! But you should do a recap since it never used for past 30 years. Also, there's a tool on the utility disk called TVGABIO.EXE which can improve the performance.

I’ll give TVGABIO.EXE a go on my 8900D as well. Do you know what the difference is between an 8900D and 8900D-R?

What I do know is 8900CL have a higher performance than 8900C. But putting benchmarks aside I'm very happy with my 8900C, it's an excellent choice for both DOS and Win3.11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDCCBYhvGWw

Good afternoon!
I bought such a controller. I was convinced that it was a SCSI cache controller with an additional IDE. But here's the problem: there is no ROM chip on the board that could be similar to a SCSI BIOS. Only eight static RAM chips and six (2+4) FIFO memory chips. I still remain sure that this is a SCSI cache controller, but
OR 1) its BIOS was physically located in a chip outside this board (for example, as an extension to the motherboard BIOS) OR 2) it was not intended to be used as a boot device controller and required some external software to work after booting from another, non-SCSI, device.
Maybe I'm wrong - correct me. But I will be grateful for any information.
If someone can help with finding the software - it will be absolutely fabulous!

Traditionally, I apologize for my imperfect English.

Vlodek_d wrote on 2025-03-12, 15:47:

Good afternoon! I bought such a controller. I was convinced that it was a SCSI cache controller with an additional IDE. But here […]
Show full quote

Good afternoon!
I bought such a controller. I was convinced that it was a SCSI cache controller with an additional IDE. But here's the problem: there is no ROM chip on the board that could be similar to a SCSI BIOS. Only eight static RAM chips and six (2+4) FIFO memory chips. I still remain sure that this is a SCSI cache controller, but
OR 1) its BIOS was physically located in a chip outside this board (for example, as an extension to the motherboard BIOS) OR 2) it was not intended to be used as a boot device controller and required some external software to work after booting from another, non-SCSI, device.
Maybe I'm wrong - correct me. But I will be grateful for any information.
If someone can help with finding the software - it will be absolutely fabulous!

Traditionally, I apologize for my imperfect English.

"Electronics for Imaging Fiery CPU" is written on the pcb.
a quick google leads to print/scan server shenanigans.

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-03-12, 11:58:

Personally I find 60Hz on a CRT to be headache inducing and borderline unusable. So a similar experience on a LCD would be a non […]
Show full quote

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2025-03-12, 07:52:

Yes, at 60Hz it is more flickery than at higher refresh rates (a little worse than 60Hz on a CRT), but to at least have the option on such an expensive retro display would be nice.

Personally I find 60Hz on a CRT to be headache inducing and borderline unusable. So a similar experience on a LCD would be a non-starter for me.

The other issue is that for DOS at least, rendering at only 60Hz introduces judder via frame skipping for 70Hz resolutions. Added motion clarity in these instances just makes the judder more visible. This is where I find LCDs with higher persistence and visible motion blur actually mask the judder caused by frame skipping.

Really what we need is a higher refresh rate that can do both 70Hz native without frame skipping and a high enough refresh rate for BFI/BLS without introducing flicker. Unfortunately nothing exists that I am aware of in a traditional 4:3 or even 5:4 form factor.

I'm assuming this monitor is more suitable for some non-PC retro computing tasks but amongst all of retro stuff I tinker with, I can't really picture what it would be good for versus just using a cheap\free LCD and an appropriate external scaler, now that so many of those have been produced specifically for retro gaming\computing.

It is cool looking and the modular nature of it is neat... but... man, I just can't get over the physical limitations of the display and the form factor.

The modular nature of it does allow for the inclusion of different hardware scalers. The module with SCART, component video, S-Video and RF is a separate scaler built around a re-engineered GBS-Control. I haven't tested it yet, but from what I've read and seen on videos and discord, it does look more feature-friendly when it comes to scaling options.

So far the saving grace is that it at least does 4:3 aspect ratios correctly under the various DOS graphics modes I've tried. The panel is also nice and bright, and the colors are quite vivid. It feels like it's part-way there, but held up by the shitty implementation of the stock board with the VGA/composite/HDMI inputs. If they'd only thought to include a VGA input on the other scaler module, some of these issues I'm having might have been overcome. But it also gives me hope that it might be possible to rig another scaler up to bypass those issues.

I plan to do some further testing under Windows XP and DOSBox. I can use DOSBox to do all the scaling options and output a native 1280x1024. This will give me a better indication of what this monitor is theoretically capable of.

I agree with you about using 60Hz CRTs to an extent... I never used a CRT at that refresh rate unless I had no choice. I always opted to run my CRTs (during the 2000s) at 85Hz-110Hz if it was available. Regarding judder, it comes back to the panel limitation of 60Hz. If it had variable refresh rate support of some kind and could run at any rate needed for old games it could avoid judder as well. Obviously the games\OS wouldn't make use of true VRR like Freesync\Gsync, but if the monitor supported it it could at least switch to whatever refresh rate was required. It seems that DOSBox Staging has support for VRR monitors for this reason, though I haven't tried it personally.

This would also work with backlight strobing for LCDs. Though, really, the "holy grail" of a modern CRT replacement is CRT beam simulation. This gives CRT-like motion clarity with a lot less visible flickering. This is actually possible entirely in software now, and can even be done with an LCD (unlike BFI, which tends to look pretty bad on an LCD), though it looks a lot better on an OLED. BlurBusters actual made a shader that could do this and Retroarch picked it up almost immediately. This is also what the Retrotink 4K and 4K CE have built in for CRT beam simulation. Combined with an OLED monitor and a CRT bezel shader you can basically simulate everything about a retro display in software now, including the way they looked with the light hitting the inner edge of the bezel.

Personally, I think the ideal setup would be either a device that could pass VGA (or other inputs) directly into a modern PC and then output them to a window with shaders applied (like how Retroarch applies them to an emulator) with minimal lag, but that probably doesn't exist yet... or just use a box like the Retrotink with maybe a few different features, though this would likely never be able to give you a simulated retro bezel. Almost any modern OLED monitor or TV is capable of all of the things we've mentioned if it is being controlled by the right software, and the software already exists, it's just a matter of getting the image from an old PC onto it.

You could argue at this point "why not just use DOSbox" and that would be completely valid for DOS titles. It comes down to whether you're paying hundreds of dollars for a monitor that looks like an old monitor to sit on your desk but really cannot show the actual image the way an old monitor would, or if you're spending hundreds of dollars to make something that looks modern give you almost the exact (visual) experience that an old monitor would, while not looking old itself. Each of us has a different preference, and I think if I didn't have actual CRTs around the decision would be harder for me... but for now I would absolutely pick image authenticity over aesthetics with something like this.

Anyway, I'm sorry for derailing the thread. I have a thing for display technology, and I would love to see a proper implementation of all of these features some day. My CRTs won't last forever! 😁

weedeewee wrote on 2025-03-12, 16:36:

.....
a quick google leads to print/scan server shenanigans.

Of course, I googled it)))
But I didn't find any useful information on this resource.
Maybe I didn't search carefully - so please help me.

Vlodek_d wrote on 2025-03-12, 17:02:

But I didn't find any useful information on this resource.

Potentially it is a print rasteriser - allowing a dumber printer to become more smart/faster. Intersting that it uses SCIS though? It presumably was printer specific and not designed for hard disk storage at all?

Susanin79 wrote on 2025-03-12, 13:09:

Nice and dirty Compaq ProSignia, hope this will work after the cleaning and Dallas replacement

Very nice, and with 3 HDDs?? 😲 What's the CPU on that beast?

Photos of yesterday's loot.

Working:
- MSI MS-6156 (ZX)
- DFI K6BV3+/66 B2
- Gigabyte 6BXDS
- Gigabyte 6BXU
- 2x Turtle Beach AU8830 A2, Dell OEM
- Voodoo 3 2000 PCI

Untested - ASUS XG-DLS - no Slot 2 CPUs on hand (yet)

Not working:
- Gigabyte 6BA
- ASUS P5A Rev 1.06
- Chaintech 5RSA0

Unknown:
- OR840 (IBM OEM) - no idea how to get it to power on as it does not have the standard Intel header, but a 7pin header inbetween IDE and floppy.

PcBytes wrote on 2025-03-12, 21:06:

Photos of yesterday's loot. […]
Show full quote

Photos of yesterday's loot.

Working:
- MSI MS-6156 (ZX)
- DFI K6BV3+/66 B2
- Gigabyte 6BXDS
- Gigabyte 6BXU
- 2x Turtle Beach AU8830 A2, Dell OEM
- Voodoo 3 2000 PCI

Untested - ASUS XG-DLS - no Slot 2 CPUs on hand (yet)

Not working:
- Gigabyte 6BA
- ASUS P5A Rev 1.06
- Chaintech 5RSA0

Unknown:
- OR840 (IBM OEM) - no idea how to get it to power on as it does not have the standard Intel header, but a 7pin header inbetween IDE and floppy.

Cont. (1)

Cont. (2) - final, PCI Voodoo 3 2000

devius wrote on 2025-03-12, 21:03:

Very nice, and with 3 HDDs?? 😲 What's the CPU on that beast?

Yes three 330 Mb SCSI drives and Intel DX 33Mhz CPU 😀 quite good for the 1993

Some DRAM chips to restore some boards
Some more EPROMs, looking for a specific ones for a "solid state disc" card.
An IBM/Cyrix 486 DX4, with "slightly" corroded pins. While cleaning/scrubbing two pins broke, but leaving the base, so I soldered back both. Now with a sticker "only for ZIF sockets"

I found this old Mecer B870-I2 recently.

Tested and confirmed to be working but not sure if it has any faults.

Trash or treasure?

Ordered... a Geforce 3 Ti500.

That's gonna be interesting to test out.

byte_76 wrote on 2025-03-13, 06:28:

I found this old Mecer B870-I2 recently.

Tested and confirmed to be working but not sure if it has any faults.

Trash or treasure?

No damage from the leaky battery, solid 486 board in a decent condition, I'd prefer to keep it.

PcBytes wrote on 2025-03-10, 17:09:

That's slim in terms of weight. The pack of boards my recycler just sent my way weighs no less than 12kg alone. Zoinks.

Yeah, I know... but considering I have to carry everything by hand / with a backpack for a few miles... things do become heavier by the end of the route. 😁

PcBytes wrote on 2025-03-10, 17:09:

On the upside... lots of rare stuff, including a Voodoo 3 PCI.

Nice.
Here, I can't find any.VooDoo stuff... or in the rare chance I do, the local sellers make Ebay prices look cheap in comparison. And it's not like there's a big retro PC community here (that I know of.) Just too many damn people expecting to get rich overnight with the sale of a single item.

Mystery stuff!

Gigabyte GA-BXE rev 1.9:

A missing BIOS chip and a minor scuff by some scoundrel from prying the heatsink off. Hopefully nothing serious.

Unknown Geforce card:

until......oh hello.

Update: board works! Graphics card doesn't work in the 6BXE though. Could be a power problem? I recall issues with some BX boards and power hungry cards like Voodoo3 and GeForces.